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tichure
7:07 PM
103
hey folks
7:07 PM
sorry i'm late
7:07 PM



AlissaB103
7:07 PM
No worries!


tichure
7:08 PM
technology not cooperating



Ari 2
7:08 PM
It’s all good



AlissaB103
7:08 PM
Ahh good ole technology


tichure
7:09 PM
while my dragon reload, tell me what you are doing for your research paper
Have you chosen a topic yet?
7:11 PM



AlissaB103
7:11 PM
I will be working on "The Yellow Wallpaper." Maybe taking a look at historically women, especially how women with post partum, were treated during the time it was written (so that is kind of a historical criticism/feminist) still kind of mapping out ideas


tichure
7:12 PM
Alyssa, let's discuss the difference between gender criticism and feminist criticism
to begin with, any historical analysis that focuses on gender issues is actually a gender criticism. Because yellow wallpaper focuses on issues between men and women, an explanation as to what's going on in the story is going to end up being a gender analysis.
7:13 PM
This gender analysis is not going to offer opinion as to what's right or wrong. It is silly going to explain the realities for the 1890s, such as the lack of resources for women, the laws that control women and offer that control to men, especially in the context of medicine and marriage, and then finally the options that woman has or does not have if she is not happy.
7:14 PM
It does not discuss whether this is fair or unfair
7:14 PM
it does not discuss whether it's right or wrong
7:14 PM
it does not discuss what has happened since that time
7:14 PM
it would also include explanation as to who S. Weir Mitchell was (real guy) and what the rest cure is or was.
7:14 PM
It would not discuss the author or her opinion
7:14 PM
are we clear so far?
7:14 PM
the objective analyses like biographical, historical and gender criticism do not opine about the merit, value or validity of the work. They simply establish that what is being portrayed is factually true, but does not get into either the authors opinion about what is being portrayed nor any response from an outside source as to what is going on and was portrayed in the work.
7:16 PM
Therefore your resources are going to be historical information, data, statistics etc. for historical and gender critical perspectives, and of course biographies of the author for biographical criticism
7:16 PM



AlissaB103
7:17 PM
So using historical gender criticism I would simply discuss the roles of the genders in this time period and how that is reflected in the book itself?


tichure
7:18 PM
That is correct\
for example, you would point out that at that time, the husband has every right to confine his wife to the house if he wishes. He could have her committed based solely on his opinion because he's a doctor.
7:18 PM
In most places in the United States, as well as the world, she does not have the right to sue for divorce (although he does). Likewise, even if she does have that right, it is unlikely she will leave with any of her possessions, even those that she came into the marriage with. This also includes her children. They are all his property, as is, in most cases, her.
7:18 PM
That explains why she simply doesn't get up and leave
7:19 PM
- 


bella213 4 joined the Main Room. ( 7:25 PM ) -


tichure
7:19 PM
likewise, you would point out that most doctors are male and most research was done on men. Therefore the understanding of female anatomy, psychology and physiology is fairly limited.
Hey there Bella. We are discussing yellow wallpaper
7:19 PM
and gender criticism
7:19 PM



AlissaB103
7:20 PM
I feel like you are writing my essay for me...


tichure
7:20 PM
everything I tell you is useful only if you can find the research to support what I just told you.
And all you have to do is start doing reading in Gale and Ebscohost and you will find the same information with the benefit of having actual quotations to use in your paper.
7:20 PM
what I am pointing out here is that you're limited to what you can talk about
7:20 PM
you may not discuss the author in gender criticism.
7:20 PM



Ari 2
7:21 PM
I have yet to choose a topic for my research paper ...


tichure
7:21 PM
You may not discuss the author's intention in gender criticism, as that is Marxist criticism.



Ari 2
7:21 PM
I am still a bit confused


tichure
7:21 PM
It's okay Ari. Maybe our discussion may help clarify some things for you



Ari 2
7:21 PM
We are supposed to choose from the lyrical poem list?


tichure
7:21 PM
gender criticism, like historical criticism, is simply establishing the realities of the time.
No Ari. You're supposed to be choosing from the list I gave you on Canvas
7:21 PM
Lyric poem list is for different course.
7:22 PM



AlissaB103
7:22 PM
So why couldn't we use multiple types of criticism in our paper? l


tichure
7:22 PM
Alyssa
I'm not done yet
7:22 PM
you will be REQUIRED to use multiple criticisms in your paper
7:22 PM
all I am doing is explaining to you that feminist criticism engender criticism are going to be separate arguments
7:22 PM
and therefore you would not mix them
7:23 PM
a feminist criticism belongs in a different category of critical perspectives. Along with androcentric, cultural and reader response criticisms, feminist criticism looks at the work through the lens of the belief system that you identify by choosing that critical perspective.
7:23 PM
in other words, feminist criticism is going to explain how a feminist would respond to what is portrayed in the story.
7:23 PM
It is going to explain what a feminist would agree with and disagree with in terms of portrayal.
7:23 PM
You would need information from your resources as to whether or not feminist agree that women are oppressed in marriage
7:23 PM
that they are ignored in medicine
7:23 PM
and that they do not have a voice in society
7:23 PM
which of course in 1895
7:23 PM
being that they don't have the vote for more than 20 more years,
7:24 PM
is true.
7:24 PM
Moreover, these response based critical analyses require that you also identify whether the feminist critic is going to agree with or disagree with the author's assessment and editorial.
7:24 PM
For example, do they like the main character? Do they agree with her resistance to her husband's dictates?
7:24 PM
Do they like the end of the story where the husband has fainted and the woman is literally and figuratively walking over him?
7:24 PM
Do they like the editorial that basically says men do not know enough about women to treat them and control them?
7:25 PM
Being that this is one of the seminal feminist works of the 1960s (when it was rediscovered), the answers are fairly obvious, but it is your research this going to establish whether or not you're making a solid argument
7:25 PM



AlissaB103
7:25 PM
I feel like finding enough resources for the feminist opion (as I'm sure mine doesn't count). If I do a marxist critism, I could look at the author's intention, and use historical criticism to relate the intention to history of the time?


tichure
7:25 PM
moreover, it will be a separate paragraph from gender criticism.
It may have some of the same information because the feminist response is based on these historical realities
7:25 PM
you are correct that yours is not count.
7:26 PM
However, what many students find helpful is to examine why they respond to a work the way they do and then find a critical perspective that supports that argument and then simply argue through the critical perspective. In some ways they ARE expressing their opinion, but it's couched in the context of a critical perspective rather than simply saying "I feel this way" which is unacceptable.
7:26 PM
A Marxist criticism, obviously, is going to focus on the author's opinion being expressed in the work. It WILL discuss Charlotte Perkins Gilman's own experience and how it affected her writing of this particular work. You would use her biographical information ONLY. as it relates to the story, as the rest of the story is completely fictional. obviously, you cannot apply biographical criticism here, because other than having suffered from this nervous system area and being treated with the rest cure, the rest of the story is completely made up
7:28 PM
but\
7:28 PM
and here is an important element for everyone to understand
7:28 PM
you cannot give me two critical perspectives based on response to the work that agree.
7:29 PM
In other words, you cannot give me a feminist response to a feminist work if you also give me a Marxist criticism of the same work because they are simply going to say the same thing.
7:29 PM
Likewise, if you were to cover dear mama, you cannot give me a Marxist analysis of the work and then explain a cultural response from an impoverished young African-American male.
7:29 PM
It's the same argument
7:29 PM
the idea here is to show me the RANGE of translations rather than a notion that there's only one way to translate a particular work.
7:29 PM
I will offer you some leeway if you going to do one of the more objective analyses, like historical criticism/gender criticism and a feminist criticism for yellow wallpaper, as they will use different resources and really make a separate argument.
7:31 PM
But you would not be able to do, for example, a biographical and a Marxist analysis of a work that is autobiographical, like that from Tupac Shakur
7:31 PM
Bella, what work are you going to be doing for your research paper? Have you decided yet?
7:31 PM
Ari, I give you a limited list from which to choose and you choose one of those works. The reason those items are on that list is because those are items that are going to have enough material both primary and secondary to discuss in order to complete the research paper by the end of the semester with a total of four or more critical perspectives.
7:32 PM



Ari 2
7:33 PM
Yeah I’m thinking about doing mine on The Awakening



bella213 4
7:34 PM
Sorry, yes this is from the term paper list you gave us correct? If so i was thinking Hitchcock's Vertigo


tichure
7:36 PM
Ari, Where did you get that title?
Yes Bella. Have you seen the movie
7:36 PM



Ari 2
7:37 PM
Underneath the Literature section for the term paper list



bella213 4
7:37 PM
No not yet



Ari 2
7:37 PM
I’m probably making it more complicated than it has to be ...
I’m sorry
7:37 PM


tichure
7:37 PM
Ari, yes because you didn't understand what I said.
Go to week one or two of the course in canvas
7:37 PM
and find "choose your paper topic"
7:37 PM
well Bella, I'm going to strongly suggest that you check that out so that you can decide this is something that you can do. Obviously, Hitchcock is one of those directors who is taken quite seriously in terms of literary analysis, and his treatment of women is legendary, which will help with both gender criticism and feminist criticism, of which Alyssa and I were talking.
7:38 PM



bella213 4
7:38 PM
ok


tichure
7:39 PM
however, remember that the first thing that I ask all of you to do, whether you're in the 103 class for the 213 class is to choose something and then immediately start working on an annotated Works cited, which requires that you find not only the primary source, but nine other resources that will be valid research material for your choice. That's your litmus test.
I believe that if you choose that particular work you should be okay, but of course that's on you to find that information.
7:39 PM
The other thing of course is that you're going to be living with this work for the next 15 weeks or so
7:39 PM
which means that you have to understand it well enough and like it well enough in order to write two drafts of the paper, and outline and an annotated work cited for.
7:39 PM
For the 103 people, they may also end up writing one or two RESPONSES for The work that they choose, so it is a matter of choosing carefully.
7:39 PM



Ari 2
7:41 PM
Sweet


tichure
7:41 PM
The reason the items are on the list is because I know that they can be researched, but whether the student can get access to that information is another kettle of fish.
Also, keep in mind that the library has been kind enough to work with me on gathering information for not only lyric in poetry, as well as drama and short story, as one might expect for literature course, but also movies.
7:41 PM



Ari 2
7:42 PM
“Dear Mama” will be my chosen topic


tichure
7:42 PM
That means information about directors, writers, musicians etc. that may otherwise be part of a different type of classes can be important to this course.
And Ari, that means you now need to start your research in terms of finding information not only about the author, but about ways to translate this other than to simply explain what the author was saying in this obvious ode to his mother.
7:42 PM
That's where your annotated works cited comes in for all of you.
7:42 PM



bella213 4
7:42 PM
i was just about to ask if you would recommend using the library's database to find articles


tichure
7:42 PM
If you choose something that's mostly conventional, part of the literary canon, as Alyssa has, finding 10 resources will not really be much of a problem.
It's not recommendation Bella. It's a requirement
7:43 PM



bella213 4
7:43 PM
ok


tichure
7:43 PM
you must focus on college-level literary analysis and statistical analysis resources rather than simply finding crap off the Internet. For works like your movie, there is a lot of good material out there because it is from a respected/reviled/famous director, it is part of historical moviemaking, and it is taken seriously both in the literary and in the cinematic fields.
for works that are more popular in nature or more contemporary, there is a great deal of information on the Internet that is simply fan-based, but it does not necessarily mean there was any real research going. That's why you got an email from me explaining your limitations, such as the prohibition of using things like Shmoop University or Wikipedia as resources.
7:44 PM
You can't use sing 365 because of the public posting board.
7:44 PM
It doesn't mean that these don't have good information. Much of Wikipedia has some very good research information because, in many cases, the article that you see was plagiarized from a valid research based website.
7:44 PM
Also, what people may say about an author or a particular event may be true, but if they do not document the resource material, it falls short. As I was discussing with Alyssa, what I say here is all valid information, but it doesn't count for evidence in a research paper.
7:45 PM
I know What\ the answers are. It's a matter of you showing me WHERE to find evidence in provide the support for that valid translation.
7:45 PM



Ari 2
7:45 PM
Mine will be harder to find analysis on


tichure
7:46 PM
that's why this is a critical thinking and research class, not a literature appreciation course. Even the horror literature course that I offer (Bella, that you) is still treated like the college level/University level literature course that it is, being that the 200 level indicates a certain level of scholarship.
We are not discussing what we like and dislike. We are discussing how it gets translated in multiple ways, demonstrating that it is not simply one-dimensional.
7:46 PM
Not really Ari. 10 years ago, Tupac Shakur was not in Gale. Now he is.
7:46 PM
One thing that happens when you get murdered as an artist is that other people now take your work seriously. It happened to Kurt Cobain. If you accidentally die we also take your work more seriously. It happened to Jim Morrison
7:47 PM
I'm not implying, by the way, that Kurt Cobain was murdered, even though that is a theory by some people.
7:47 PM
Officially, he killed himself.
7:47 PM
But back to the point, when the Beatles first came on the scene, they were the realm of young people who had no authority and no say. Now those young people are old people, and they are in charge of things like literature departments and music departments and suddenly we look at "Sgt. peppers lonely hearts club band" as a masterpiece and dissected from both cultural and musical standpoints in ways that were not happening even by 1970 when the Beatles broke up.
7:48 PM
The Internet is a great resource for finding all kinds of things, but you have to separate the wheat from the chaff. You have to separate the BS from valid research. That's what we're doing in the course.
7:49 PM
Down the line, nobody is going to ask you whether you understand what yellow wallpaper or dear mama is about.
7:49 PM
They will ask you whether or not you understand what feminist criticism or psychoanalytical criticism is or how to do proper research
7:49 PM
and that's what I'm teaching you. I'm allow you to use material that might resonate with you more than, forcible, Shakespeare or some other more traditional work because it's the critical perspective and the research process here that's important, not the vessel we used to learn about it.
7:49 PM



Ari 2
7:50 PM
Okay so we are supposed to discuss the different ways in which the work is interpreted?
Verification
7:50 PM


tichure
7:50 PM
Choosing wisely for the item that you will use 12 semester involves balancing between what you really care about, which might be a song or movie that you like, and your availability of research information that will offer you enough information to write a research paper and get out of my class.
That is exactly it Ari
7:50 PM



Ari 2
7:50 PM
Well know I feel better, thank you


tichure
7:50 PM
that's why you will not be up to give me a Marxist analysis of this work and then also give me a cultural perspective from a young African-American male living in poverty because that's who the author is.
I feel better too.
7:50 PM
It's always good to help somebody get clear on what I'm looking for. It makes my job a lot easier in the long run.
7:51 PM
That's why I'm here on Wednesday night by the way.
7:51 PM



Ari 2
7:51 PM
Now*


tichure
7:51 PM
I'd rather answer a few questions now and get better material from you when it comes time for your grade. I'm sure you would like that as well.
I knew what you meant.
7:51 PM
But I'll fix it in the editing.
7:51 PM
Which brings me back to my conversation with Alyssa.
7:51 PM



Ari 2
7:51 PM
Lol


tichure
7:51 PM
Marxist criticism, Gender criticism, feminist criticism are all valid analyses for your wallpaper.
however, you have to make sure that your finding two translations that don't simply repeat each other.
7:52 PM
RE, you may not do a biographical and a Marxist criticism because one of them is part of the other.
7:52 PM
When a work is autobiographical, obviously a biographical criticism works, but if the work is biographical, the biography is also intrinsic to the Marxist criticism. It would be incredibly repetitious to do both in the same essay so you get one or the other
7:52 PM
Bella, when it comes to doing a movie, keep in mind that you are evaluating not the writer of the work, but the director. In fact, the importance of the director is indicated that with other words, the author is listed first. For movies, the title of the movies listed, followed by the director and then followed by the actors. The writer is not even mentioned.\
7:53 PM
That's because the director completely controls how the written work gets translated into a visual work. They control, in many cases, the actors are, what the scenes look like, what the lighting is like, what the dialogue is going to be, how the dialogue is said, and they may alter the original work in order to fit their own vision.
7:53 PM
In rare cases, like George Lucas, in which he is both writer and director of the original Star Wars, which we used to call "Star Wars" before it was a part four,
7:53 PM
they are part and parcel of the same thing.
7:54 PM
However, unless your work was written by Hitchcock, which is possible, you really examining how he put the movie together rather than discussing the writing aspects of it. Obviously, you're also unlikely to do a biographical criticism because it's unlikely that a fiction piece written by somebody else is a depiction of the director’s actual life
7:54 PM
haha


7:54 PM
however, for all of these works, Marxist criticism is ALWAYS on the table.
7:54 PM
You can always explain what the author's point was, what methods he or she used, and what the intended audience was (although you do NOT discuss what the audience felt about it in response)
7:55 PM
you can also, in many cases, find evidence of some kind of class conflict, whether it is social class, economic class, religious class, racial class or gender class.
7:55 PM
Alyssa, Marxist criticism for yellow wallpaper is not just about the author discussing her opinions. It's also a discussion of the power struggle between men (the bourgeoisie) and women (the proletariat) and how the proletariat is trying to gain power and how the bourgeoisie attempts to maintain the power that it has.
7:56 PM
Remember that Marxist criticism has these two facets and you don't have to use both of them
7:56 PM
but they are both available in many cases.
7:56 PM



AlissaB103
7:57 PM
Okay cool. I feel like I'm getting a better grip on things.
Not to get off track but, what is due tomorrow? I see in our grades it says Formalist, Biographical, Historical Criticisms due tomorrow. Is there something we have to do for that or just the reading?
7:58 PM



Ari 2
7:58 PM
In my case I could be analyzing the theme , tone, etc of the song


tichure
7:59 PM
Those are just reading.
Keep in mind that to me an assignment is something I make you do. A reading assignment is an assignment. It was a written assignment, there will be either a dialog box for you to submit something, or there'll be instruction for you to send it to me Directly to my email address which simply are the actual drafts of the research paper. Everything else gets posted on canvas. If there is no dialog box, there is nothing to do other than to read.
8:00 PM
Ari, that is only for part PART of Marxist criticism, which talks about methodology. You also have to explain why he believes this way. You would be using his life experiences to discuss not only what happened to him as depicted in the song, and also how he feels about those events directly.
8:01 PM
You're not giving me his entire life story. You're explaining every reference to his life experience that is in the song, including being homeless at 17, trying to sell drugs to survive, dropping out of school, being arrested, having a drug addicted mother, having a sister, not knowing his father up to the time he wrote the song etc.
8:01 PM
And with Marxist criticism, you're adding that element of how he feels about these things.
8:01 PM
The first written assignment for 103 is going to be for most people either the annotated works or the first RESPONSE. The first written assignment for 213 is going to be choosing a topic for the presentation or the annotated works.
8:02 PM



AlissaB103
8:04 PM
I have a few more questions that aren't related to the paper, is it okay to ask them now?


tichure
8:06 PM
sure



AlissaB103
8:06 PM
Is this the message board talked about on your website that we will need to post on?


tichure
8:06 PM
that way. I'm here to answer your questions. I may go off on a diatribe in order to clarify something but that's because I know this is good be published later for the mass class. However, for all intents and purposes, I'm here for the people who show up. If you have a question, ask me.
No
8:06 PM
Alyssa, where did you see that? I thought I removed all references to the message board for the 103 distance Ed class.
8:07 PM
There is no message board for 213 either, Bella.
8:07 PM
Just in case you're wondering
8:07 PM



bella213 4
8:07 PM
ok



AlissaB103
8:08 PM
Honestly, I went down a worm hole of links on your website the other day trying to get as much info as possible, and I am not sure where I saw it, I just wrote down questions as I saw them. So to clarify, we will not have to post to a message board?


tichure
8:08 PM
that is correct Alyssa
keep in mind that my website, as you may have noticed, is for multiple courses, and so material is shared between courses. However, it is possible you'll get into information that is not for your specific class. That's why the links on canvas are so specific. It doesn't mean you CAN'T explore other stuff on englit.org, but I would not hide something on that website that is not directly referred to on canvas. That would not be fair to you.
8:09 PM

8:09 PM
so now Alyssa, Ari, I have a question for you and this is something that you want to think about also Bella.
8:10 PM
You have the work whether it's a poem or short story or movie.
8:10 PM
You find information about what the author intended to do and what what they were trying to say
8:10 PM
you may also agree with the author
8:10 PM
it seems to be pretty focused on what this thing is about
8:10 PM
part of critical analysis has to do with understanding that there was going to be ALWAYS someone to disagree with you
8:10 PM
with the work
8:10 PM



AlissaB103
8:10 PM
I found it under eng 103->course description, goals, requiremrnts->student participation and expectations


tichure
8:10 PM
with the author
thank you Alyssa. I will fix that
8:11 PM
as part of that, I want you to think about the perspective in dear mama, in yellow wallpaper, and eventually Bella when you watch it, in vertigo.
8:11 PM
Then you need to ask yourself
8:11 PM
who would disagree with the author?
8:11 PM
Who would disagree with Tupac Shakur when he says that his drug addicted mother, who had multiple children out of wedlock and is a convicted felon, who raised a convicted felon and lived on welfare, is a good mother and deserves to be loved?
8:12 PM
Who would disagree with Charlotte Perkins Gilman when she says that men do not understand women, that men, even well-intentioned, can cause women harm, and that it is better for a woman to go crazy battling against male authority than it is to simply comply?
8:12 PM
This is where your cultural criticisms will be important because you're going to have to find cultural perspectives that, in many cases, are fundamentally against your own beliefs. When you present these critical perspectives, you are NOT allowed to discuss whether or not you agree or disagree with them. You are not allowed to editorialize about what is right or wrong in terms of those perspectives. You are simply going to present them as earnestly and is well supported as you would something that you fundamentally agree with.
8:13 PM
That's an important element of critical thinking. It's not that you have to agree with them. If so you have to understand whether coming from and you must be able to make the argument.
8:13 PM
You must have good resources from that perspective, not what you think the perspective things. Not what somebody else thinks that perspective thinks.
8:14 PM



Ari 2
8:14 PM
Well... I agree w him


tichure
8:14 PM
If you're going to give me a conservative Christian view of something, do not give it to me through the filter of what a Muslim thinks. Don't explain to me what the Jewish version is through the Mormon perspective. Don't give me what white people think through an Asian perspective
if you're going to give me the Asian translation, first of all you must nail it down to a specific viewpoint, such as conservative Shinto religion, using resources from that particular group.
8:15 PM
Ari, then you have to find somebody who says that he's wrong
8:15 PM
understand that rarely will these cultures respond directly to the work you're analyzing.
8:15 PM
Instead, you're finding their viewpoints, their rules, their values, what they believe in and what they do not believe in. YOU then take that information and extrapolate that to say they would disagree with the author on this particular subject.
8:16 PM
For example, Ari, do you think that child protective services would be comfortable with the description of the lives of the children depicted in "dear mama"?
8:16 PM
Likewise Alyssa, do you think that a conservative patriarchy would agree that it is okay for women to resist  and defy the dictates and orders of men? 8:16 PM



AlissaB103
8:16 PM
If for instance I found a sourse involving the more extreme muslims who think that women are lesser than men, I could find something where they say women must listen to a man and use that in relation to the book?


tichure
8:17 PM
that is exactly that is exactly what talking about Alyssa.
8:17 PM
Exactly
8:17 PM
very good
8:17 PM
and you look at all the realms of this.
8:17 PM
Keep in mind that the reason that she is considered "sick" is because she does not want have anything to do with her child. When you find a society whose view is that women are solely put on this earth for either the pleasure of men or for procreation, the attitude depicted by the narrator is completely at odds with their thinking.
8:17 PM
Therefore they would like Jennie, who can think of nothing that would please her more than to be a good housekeeper.
8:18 PM
They would like Mary, who was so good with children.
8:18 PM
They would like John, with his authority and his medical wisdom.
8:18 PM
Unfortunately, all three of these people are portrayed less ideally in the story itself.
8:18 PM
And therefore you would focus on those elements.
8:18 PM
You chose well Alyssa
8:18 PM



AlissaB103
8:19 PM
So in my head, I am having trouble thinking of how to word that...Would I say something along the lines of "from the ____ perspecitive, this book..." type of thing?


tichure
8:19 PM
Bella, when it comes to movies, you are dealing with a much more complex work. To begin with, it is a lot longer and has many more characters and more settings etc. Moreover, you have to distinguish between what the director is saying and what the character is saying. As part of that, we have to determine, as we would with any fiction piece, who the audience is intended by the creator of the work to like or identify with.
That is exactly correct Alyssa
8:20 PM
in fact, that brings me to something that I will repeat many many times during the course of the semester to people whatever their paper.
8:20 PM
Each body paragraph is a single critical perspective argument.
8:20 PM
Each critical perspective is going to be in one very large paragraph, in many cases two or three or more pages.
8:20 PM
Because I'm evaluating you and your analysis based on your application of the critical perspective, each body paragraph MUST begin with the topic sentence that identifies the critical perspective clearly, and starting with "from a biographical perspective, this work is a reflection of the authors life…"
8:20 PM
Or
8:20 PM



AlissaB103
8:20 PM
That explains why the paragraphs can be so long. I found it strange


tichure
8:21 PM
"from a historical perspective, this work is an accurate depiction of the 1850s…"
Well, Alyssa if you are doing, for example, a mythological criticism for your entire paper, you might break it up by character or by setting or by archetype or something along those lines.
8:21 PM
However, this analysis is demonstrating, for all intensive purposes, how this work can be translated in multiple ways, multiple DIFFERENT ways.
8:21 PM
To that end, each paragraph is an argument that is part of the larger argument which is your paper
8:21 PM
each one of them is going to be one facet, one translation that will be different from the next or the previous.
8:22 PM



Ari 2
8:22 PM
Okay my apologies bc I sound lost... but so I have to find criticisms who agree w his work and disagree w it


tichure
8:22 PM
Remember a paragraph is not defined by length.
That is correct Ari
8:22 PM
a paragraph is defined by cohesiveness.
8:22 PM
If your essay is applying one specific critical perspective, such as feminist criticism, you might break it up by various aspects of that single critical perspective. However, the papers for this class will be multiple critical perspectives and therefore the defining cohesive argument is going to be each of the critical perspectives.
8:23 PM
That's why for English 103 (Bella, you don't have RESPONSES as part of your class) you will be giving me responses that are only three paragraphs, which is an introduction, conclusion, both of which are short, and a single body paragraph that offers a single critical perspective. That body paragraph will be no less then 15 or more sentences in which you develop that argument as much as possible.
8:23 PM



AlissaB103
8:24 PM
Two more off topic questions: 1. If we use the online chat, are we still required to go through the archives for full points? 2. How will peer evalutaion work with an online class?


tichure
8:24 PM
Bella, when you make your PRESENTATION, it is likely to be a single critical perspective and therefore you very possibly could have that same format in which you have a short introduction, a short conclusion, and a rather lengthy body paragraph in which you analyze some horror work from that particular critical perspective.
Alyssa, the archive is not for points. The archive is for you to understand the information. There is no way that I know whether or not you read the archives. There's no way whether or not you've read any of the things I assigned to you. You are an adult, or at least you're treated like one here. That means is up to you whether you read those things or not. The archived chats are there because they have information that YOU MUST have in order to be successful in this course in terms of content, in terms of formatting and in terms of general information.
8:25 PM
Peer editing will be part of your interaction with other people in the class for the final draft of your paper. It is not the grade. Again, this is for your benefit. Having somebody else read the paper and give you feedback about formatting and content before I get it and I grade it will very often be useful, especially since that last draft for all classes is not revisable. peer editing has two benefits. The first is that you get a separate set of eyes on your paper. You may keep making the same grammatical mistake that you do not see because your brain fills in where you keep dropping that word or that letter. Also, your editor may remind you about quotation formatting, Works cited formatting, use of the literary term etc.
8:26 PM
Moreover, when you read some meals this paper, it is likely you're going to notice something that you were supposed to have in your paper or at least delete you question whether or not it was supposed to be in your paper.
8:27 PM
Collaborative learning, working with other students, is something that you will find is more and more common the higher you go up the educational foodchain.
8:27 PM
That's because you're working with other educated people, and getting feedback from people who are doing the same assignment might alert you to something that you missed or will give you an opportunity to verify that what you think you're doing is correct is actually correct.
8:27 PM
However, it's not graded. Either you use it or you don't. That's up to you
8:28 PM
I used to make it mandatory, but especially with the distance education class, getting people to coordinate is a pain in the ass.
8:28 PM



AlissaB103
8:28 PM
I have noticed that. Lots of awkward icebreaker games lead to many a group efforts for learning


tichure
8:28 PM
The people who really want to do it, who find benefits in it, will go out of their way to make sure it happens.
Those who don't want to do it, why make them do it. I don't give you work to do for the sake of work. I give you work that is going to give you an opportunity to learn the craft that you must demonstrate to me by the of the semester.
8:28 PM
You don't have to use all the tools. You just have to show me that you can do what I ask you to do by the end of the semester. That's where your grade comes from.
8:29 PM
For sure Alyssa. Also, people of different strengths. You may find that you're great at finding certain kinds of research, also Somebody else is really good at formatting in MLA.
8:29 PM
working together means that you are sharing those knowledge bases to help both of you
8:29 PM
but That is up to you as a student.
8:30 PM



AlissaB103
8:30 PM
Awesome! I apprecitate all the info. Clears up a lot for me. So for the readings of the poems/song this week, we are good as long as we read em? (Way to choose depressing stuff by the way)


tichure
8:30 PM
ideally, everybody doing yellow wallpaper would get together and talk about the legal perspectives that work, where to find resources, etc. etc., but realistically it doesn't work out that way. What does often happen is that people do work together and they do help each other out. Other people do it all by themselves.
yes
8:30 PM
hahahaha
8:30 PM
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tichure
8:31 PM
the reason that material is on the reading list is because it matches the critical perspectives that are on the agenda
those early items are historical, biographical and didactic in nature.
8:31 PM
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AlissaB103 left the Main Room. ( 8:37 PM ) -


tichure
8:32 PM
They are conducive to understanding how biographical, historical, gender and Marxist criticism work because they are good examples of works that would be explained well through that context.
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tichure
8:32 PM
Welcome back Ari



Ari 2
8:33 PM
Is it fine if I email you if I get lost again ?



bella213 4
8:33 PM
Thank you for the chat, this has certainly clarfied the questions i had.


tichure
8:33 PM
the reason that material is on the reading list is because it matches the critical perspectives that are on the agendathose early items are historical, biographical and didactic in nature.

tichure8:32 PMThey are conducive to understanding how biographical, historical, gender and Marxist criticism work because they are good examples of works that would be explained well through that context.
yesAri
8:33 PM
make sure you have read the assigned material before you ask me a question.
8:33 PM
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tichure
8:34 PM
I don't mind clarifying something, but if the question indicates to me that there was no effort on your part to do the assigned reading, I'm going to be less inclined to want to go over it again
the reason that material is on the reading list is because it matches the critical perspectives that are on the agenda those early items are historical, biographical and didactic in nature. 

tichure 8:32 PM They are conducive to understanding how biographical, historical, gender and Marxist criticism work because they are good examples of works that would be explained well through that context.
8:34 PM
Ari, Alyssa, did you get booted by the program?
8:34 PM



Ari 2
8:35 PM
You mean this website?


tichure
8:35 PM
I'm glad to help Bella. In many cases, what people really need is verification and clarification of what they actually already know.



AlissaB103
8:35 PM
Sorry, not sure if my internet failed me or it was the program


tichure
8:35 PM
Yes\



Ari 2
8:35 PM
I have to use it on my phone cause something is wrong w my laptop


tichure
8:35 PM
got it. It's just that both of you at around the same time and sometimes these programs get glitchy and then they start removing people who are impacting their datastream.



AlissaB103
8:35 PM
Glad to have an impact on something


tichure
8:35 PM
That's the kind of stuff that I report back to them. So they can fix it.
hahahhah
8:35 PM



Ari 2
8:36 PM
It won’t open the browser on my laptop



bella213 4
8:36 PM
oh i had that problem too




Ari 2
8:36 PM
So I downloaded the app on my phone
8:36 PM



tichure
8:37 PM
We are all here to learn.
Recognizing that you have something to learn is the biggest step. After that it's just a matter of getting as much as you can out of the experience.
8:37 PM



Ari 2
8:38 PM
This is my first online class so that’s why I’m so lost


tichure
8:38 PM
Folks, start on those annotated works cited. It will give you an idea as to whether or not you've chosen appropriately for your research process. Also, it IS one of the things that I grade on.



Ari 2
8:38 PM
I’m a visual hands on learner aha


tichure
8:38 PM
Well, I will be here every Wednesday, Ari, and I talked to the people who show up. I talk about the papers that people bring up. I talk about the topics that people bring up.
Do some research and then let's have a conversation.
8:38 PM
Not only are you having a conversation for yourself
8:38 PM
but for everyone who cannot make it.
8:38 PM
The "dumb question" is actually the one that is most often asked
8:39 PM
is the one that the answer is needed
8:39 PM
and that's why when somebody asks a question you end up all getting the answer
8:39 PM
because you will need to know what
8:39 PM
the answer was, whether you already knew it or not



AlissaB103
8:40 PM
Got a gig to catch. See you next week! Thank you for the 411.


tichure
8:40 PM
any questions or other issues I can help clarify
you got it



Ari 2
8:40 PM
Anything due tomorrow ?



bella213 4
8:40 PM
where will these chats be again if we wanted to go over and reread them?


tichure
8:40 PM
Bella, they are all posted on englit.org
on the chat archive
8:40 PM



bella213 4
8:40 PM
ok thank you


tichure
8:40 PM
Ari, all due dates are posted in canvas.
look into your chosen works and we will be able to work next week on clarifying critical perspectives and valid resources.
8:42 PM
remember,
8:42 PM



Ari 2
8:42 PM
Thank you !


tichure
8:43 PM
once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places
if you look at it right
8:43 PM
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AlissaB103 left the Main Room. ( 8:49 PM ) -


tichure
8:43 PM
so light out and look all around. see what you find.
You got it Ari
8:43 PM
Bella, anything else I can help you with at this point?
8:43 PM



bella213 4
8:44 PM
no i think im good, ill watch vertigo tomorrow



tichure
8:45 PM
sounds good
8:45 PM



bella213 4
8:45 PM
thank you again!


tichure
8:46 PM
we can talk again next week.
8:46 PM
i'll be here
8:46 PM
have a great week folks
8:46 PM



bella213 4
8:46 PM
you too
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tichure
8:46 PM
danke
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Ari 2 left the Main Room. ( 8:52 PM ) -


tichure
8:47 PM
poof