19:03:39 From Cole : Hello professor 19:03:43 From tichure : hey cole 19:03:53 From tichure : How are things coming along? 19:05:55 From Cole : Pretty well on the final paper so far I almost have all of my sources. I just wanted to check and see if my email went through to you properly with my presentation paper attached to it? and also see if I could use a paper that my mom wrote for her English bachelors on Frankenstein for quotes and citations? 19:06:25 From tichure : well, let’s talk about resources. 19:07:07 From tichure : Obviously you cannot use your mom’s paper in the sense that you cannot quote what she wrote in her own words. However, you can certainly look at her resources and utilize them as your own since those resources are readily available. However, you have to be over utilize them and discuss them in your own words. You will not cite your mother’s paper. You’re going to find the resources that she used and cite those. 19:07:37 From Cole : okay sounds fair 19:07:39 From tichure : Moreover, make sure that the context in which she is analyzing this particular work fits within the construct of this particular analysis. You’re applying specific critical perspectives, which she may or may not have done, depending on the scope of her research paper and the assignment that she was fulfilling. 19:08:24 From tichure : At no point in your analysis are you simply going to explain the obvious symbolism and character conflicts in the story (formalist criticism) or simply give me the plot. Instead, you’re going to use that information as a way to then translate the work through the various critical perspectives that you’ve chosen. Your first paper requires two critical perspectives. Which two are you going to apply? 19:09:24 From Cole : completely understood and just wanted to check with that so ill do research on the sources she used and i'm applying feminist perspective as well as biographical perspective 19:09:45 From tichure : Define biographical perspective for me 19:10:52 From Cole : I am going to retale mainly how the monster's Isolation is a reflection of hers after she met her husband as he already had children and a sick wife whom he left for Mary 19:11:20 From tichure : biographical criticism is a critical perspective that identifies the actual literal experiences of the author depicted in the work. Those experiences must occurred PRIOR to the authors creation of the work 19:11:21 From Cole : she was shunned and had to move to an island with her husband to escape it 19:11:32 From tichure : where in the story does any of that stuff happen 19:11:51 From tichure : moreover, does the author create a creature? Is there any murder involved in the authors life? 19:12:10 From tichure : Is she a hideous creature that was created by someone… Or did she create a hideous creature? 19:12:24 From Cole : not at all 19:12:35 From tichure : Psychoanalytical criticism is a critical perspective that looks at her work and translates it SYMBOLICALLY to the author’s life. In this case, you get to use the author’s entire life. 19:12:46 From tichure : How was Mary Wollstonecraft treated by her mother? 19:12:50 From tichure : Was she accepted or rejected? 19:13:11 From tichure : When she got married to Percy Shelley, was their relationship solid or was he off pursuing other “interests” 19:13:35 From Cole : accepted and raised well from my understanding it was more the first wave feminist ideal at the time and her relations to her husband that caused social isolation 19:13:57 From tichure : was the isolation of the island a symbolic representation of the isolation of both Dr. Frankenstein and his creature? 19:14:28 From Cole : I feel so yes, however I will do more research on it, and I will look into more on the Percy shelly aspect more aswell 19:15:10 From tichure : In essence, Mary was rejected by her mother. She felt it her entire life. Her desire to get into a relationship very early in her life (I believe she was 16 when she met Percy) was really manifestation of her trying to find someone who loved her. 19:15:20 From aaron : Hi is this chat live? Just making sure since I couldn't make last weeks discussion 19:15:35 From tichure : Read the story. Especially the part that is dictated by the creature itself is an expression of an individual who feels rejected by its creator, unloved and unlovable. He goes to the world expressing love and being rejected. Eventually it lashes out in anger and violence. 19:15:44 From tichure : hey there, Erin 19:15:52 From tichure : how’s it going? We are discussing Frankenstein 19:16:30 From aaron : Ok perfect just making sure. Hi Professor Eiland! 19:16:30 From tichure : your analysis, coal, is psychoanalytical. You’re going to take the elements that the author was feeling about herself and you’re actually going to make it relevant to the experience of the creature, who, in the story (although not so much in the movies) is actually a well cultured, intelligent being looking for acceptance and love in a world that rejects it. 19:17:02 From tichure : I prefer you don’t do psychoanalytical criticism on your first paper because it is a more complex element, but for the 213 course, I allow you if you did your information together. I will guarantee you you will find psychoanalytical articles that discuss the relationship between Mary Shelley and her creature. 19:17:21 From tichure : The Fears that she had by the way, were also reflected in her own fears about the children that she might have. 19:17:31 From tichure : the fact that Shelley played around on her increase that notion that she was unloved and unlovable. 19:17:42 From tichure : So let me ask you this other question… How are you applying the feminist criticism to this work? 19:17:54 From tichure : AAron, 103 or 213? 19:18:37 From aaron : I'm 103 19:18:48 From tichure : for your research paper, what are you working on 19:18:51 From Cole : Mainly in the relation to frankenstien and his wifes relationship and how they came to be as his wife was "A pretty present for victor" according to his mother 19:19:25 From tichure : well what I’m asking, coal, is are you explaining this as a feminist work as intended by the author or are you explaining how feminists have responded to this work in terms of the portrayal and treatment of women in the story? 19:20:38 From Cole : how feminists have responded but I will plan to do more research and could also incorporate the authors intentions as well 19:21:41 From tichure : Well actually, you don’t. Author intention is Marxist criticism. Whether the author is a feminist or a Republican or a Muslim or whatever, explaining the author intention is Marxist criticism. It sounds like you’re on the right track for feminist criticism. 19:21:45 From tichure : You need to basically explain two things. 19:22:09 From tichure : The first is whether feminists agree that women were treated at that time in the way that they are portrayed in the story. Since really you have women here as either prizes or victims, they are likely to agree that women were treated in a particular way 19:22:34 From tichure : keep in mind that the creature uses Frankenstein’s fiancé/bride as a way to get to him. She is nothing more than a conduit for his revenge. 19:23:16 From tichure : Likewise, this is a story about a man creating life, something that is usually only assigned to women. In the context however as soon as he creates that life, he abandons it. Do feminists agree that men are good at being part of the creation part but are generally poor at the nurturing and support part? 19:24:12 From Cole : in some cases yes, this is really helping clear things up for me as well professor 19:24:28 From tichure : now somewhat automatically assume that any work written by a woman is going to be liked by feminist readers, especially a writer that is considered part of the earliest feminist waves (first wave feminism) sees. However, that is not always true. Many times writers will fall into standard tropes that follow societies expectations, and if the societies is sexist, that feminist writer may actually be repeating and reinforcing ideas and concepts that feminists find problematic. 19:25:11 From tichure : Because the other aspect is the editorial. You have to explain whether or not the feminist agrees with the authors editorial, which is basically the overarching theme and message that is derived through the story. Shelley’s argument has multiple elements in it, but the main one is that if you have children, you need to be responsible for loving and supporting them or bad things will happen. 19:25:31 From tichure : This is not only a reflection of her view and in terms of social responsibility at the time, but is also obviously a direct reflection of her own abandonment by her mother in her childhood. 19:26:23 From tichure : Now understand you’re not going to explain what Shelley’s argument is in a direct way apply to Shelley. That would be Marxist criticism. However, the overarching theme of the story is pretty apparent because it has to do with cause-and-effect and what happens in the story. You would determine whether the feminist agrees with the work that Frankenstein basically created his own situation but all are you rejecting his creature, but also then by not following through this promises to create another like creature for it to live with. He destroys the female creature while creating it because he can’t stand to follow through with it. 19:26:28 From Cole : okay so while they may agree that it was true for the times they may also be upset that she uses the bride for a standard trope? 19:26:34 From tichure : Yes 19:26:39 From tichure : it reinforces the notion that this is okay. 19:27:02 From Cole : perfect thank you professor! 19:27:04 From tichure : A lot of feminist and other cultural analyses are going to agree that what’s portrayed in any story happens. It’s whether or not they agree with the authors EDITORIAL which becomes an issue is whether or not they like the story. 19:27:07 From tichure : You got it. 19:27:11 From tichure : Erin, what are you working on? 19:27:22 From tichure : By the way, ignore the spelling deal. I use Dragon speak and apparently it only has one version of the name Aaron. 19:27:32 From tichure : except that one 19:27:35 From tichure : go figure 19:29:44 From tichure : anyway 19:29:48 From tichure : whats up 19:30:21 From aaron : Hello? For some reason I can't connect back this 19:30:31 From aaron : let me know if anyone can read this 19:30:35 From tichure : i can 19:30:58 From tichure : I can see just fine. 19:31:07 From tichure : Anyway, what’s up 19:31:17 From aaron : Great! Sorry about that the Zoom link wouldn't let me back in 19:31:33 From tichure : so, what are you working on 19:32:06 From aaron : I actually had a question because I still haven't decided on what to write about 19:32:18 From tichure : you need to decide on something. What’s your question? Maybe we can get you landed on a particular topic 19:33:14 From aaron : Does out topic have to only be on related to the sources given to us? 19:33:30 From tichure : yes 19:33:59 From tichure : if you look on the website and go to the calendar, I’ve updated the “term paper list” to give you links to everything with the exception of the Lucas Films 19:34:14 From tichure : of those items, are you familiar with any of it? 19:34:59 From aaron : I actually want to use one of the episodes from the Star Wars trilogy as my starting point 19:35:34 From tichure : Okay. Which one 19:36:03 From tichure : Star Wars is a nanology 19:36:15 From tichure : I imagine you’re talking aboutThe original three movies? 19:36:23 From tichure : four five and six? 19:36:37 From aaron : That's the thing, I still don't know what our research paper has to be about 19:36:52 From aaron : I've read the modules professor 19:37:09 From tichure : You are going to be applying critical analysis. You should have seen a discussion of critical theory, a discussion of what the research papers going to be and you can even see samples of the research papers for this class on the website. 19:37:12 From tichure : Have you seen the videos 19:37:32 From tichure : essentially, you’re going to translate the work from four different perspectives by the end of the semester. Right now, you only need to translate from two different perspectives. 19:37:47 From tichure : Which critical perspectives did you understand most? 19:38:43 From tichure : By the way, you can see sample papers, both responses and term papers, here 19:38:46 From tichure : http://www.englit.org/eiland_shared/testpapr.htm 19:39:04 From aaron : Historical stood out to me since I like to refer to my history for almost anything 19:39:45 From aaron : Ok thank you for the link Mr.Eiland 19:40:18 From tichure : can you define Historical criticism for me? 19:40:37 From aaron : Is there a way I can come talk to you more about the class on campus? 19:41:17 From tichure : of course but and it’s going to be the same thing that we are doing right now with the exception that you have to Drive to the campus. also, you have to catch me during my office hour 19:41:47 From tichure : but of course you can come by my office. 235 to 330 Monday through Thursday unless I have a meeting 19:42:07 From tichure : anyway, back to my question… What is historical criticism 19:42:14 From tichure : and how does it apply to this particular movie 19:43:49 From aaron : Isn't historical criticism a method of some type that studies or investigates old 19:44:08 From aaron : texts?* 19:44:27 From tichure : in short, no 19:45:11 From tichure : historical criticism is a critical perspective that explains the historical references of place, people and events that are depicted in the work. If you are doing analysis of a story written about something happening in World War I, you would be explaining all the terminology they use, the places they are referring to in the events that are depicted in the work as reality in order to explain to someone who is unfamiliar with that era as to what the hell they bare talking about. And 19:45:15 From tichure : for example 19:46:02 From tichure : we were discussing Frankenstein previously. Frankenstein is set in In an era that actually occurred. While the science that the story depicts does not actually exist, the idea of stealing bodies and using them for medical research does, as is the common practice of arranged marriages, using horses and buggies 19:46:06 From tichure : etc. and of course the lack of other technology that might be useful, such as cell phones and such. 19:46:13 From tichure : The problem is you’re discussing your work that does not exist in reality. 19:46:41 From tichure : It is the only item on the list that you cannot apply historical criticism to because history does not relate to this story. There was no empire as such as depicted in the movie. We do not have the space travel technology that is depicted there. We don’t have light sabers. Darth Vader is not a real guy. 19:48:09 From tichure : The author is reflecting his worldview of the history he has experienced, both with World War II and the 1970s. His views of Hitler and Richard Nixon are reflected in the characters, the costumes, the behaviors and the various centrifuges that go along. However, you would not use historical criticism for that. You’d use interview and other information from Lucas himself and he would be called Marxist criticism as it has to do with what the author was trying to say 19:48:17 From aaron : So in order to write a research paper on historical criticism anything Star Wars would not be a good choice? 19:48:23 From tichure : right 19:49:08 From tichure : yellow wallpaper and trifles are based on the realities for women in the late 1800s early 1900s. They are also based on real events. 19:49:24 From tichure : The salesman is based on the realities of both the 1930s and the late 1940s in the United States, specifically New York 19:49:49 From tichure : la migra is based on the realities of the immigration issue in the 80s and 90s, even today. 19:50:03 From tichure : Dear mom of course is based on the realities for impoverished African-Americans living in the inner-city in the 1980s and 90s. 19:50:12 From aaron : Could I use events like The Civil War and Slavery as topics for Historical criticism? 19:50:40 From tichure : Your historical information would explain the various references, whether it has to do with the laws that make wives second-class citizens to their husbands in the late 1800s or the economic situation that makes the 1930s a struggle and the 1940s after the war much better economically. 19:50:50 From tichure : Hey Erica. 19:50:56 From tichure : 103 or 213? 19:51:18 From Ericka : hang on 19:51:21 From aaron : Erica your mics on 19:51:28 From tichure : Aaron I, you are not writing some kind of history paper for me. You are writing a specific analysis and specific work and you must choose from those works. 19:52:19 From aaron : Ok I will go over all of week one again and will look at the website again 19:52:22 From tichure : the purpose here is for you to demonstrate your understanding of the critical perspectives work. Nobody’s going to test you on whether or not you understand death of a salesman or dear mama or anything else. They are going to expect you understand what feminist criticism is or what Marxist criticism is. They also are going to expect that you understand how to write a literature analysis paper. 19:52:43 From tichure : Sounds good. You can always come by my office too 19:52:50 From tichure : Hey Erica, 103 or 213? 19:53:19 From aaron : Ok I will look at my schedule and will see when I can stop by. 19:53:32 From Ericka : 103 19:53:46 From tichure : Sounds good Aaron. If you have any other quick questions, send me an email. Maybe we can get going on something. 19:53:54 From tichure : Erika, what are you working on for your research paper? 19:53:59 From aaron : I will email you first though in advance if I come in 19:54:14 From aaron : Ok Thank you professor! 19:54:14 From Ericka : anybody here taking this as their first online class, ever?19:55:00 From tichure : Erica, which work are you analyzing for your research paper? 19:55:40 From Ericka : is my mic still on? 19:56:03 From tichure : I Do not know. I muted you. 19:56:15 From Ericka : I'm going for "Disabled". 19:56:42 From tichure : you cannot write your research paper on disabled. Your research paper is going to be one of the items that are linked on the calendar on the “term paper list” 19:56:57 From tichure : you can write a response on disabled, but not the four analysis research paper 19:57:34 From tichure : you’ll find a list of approved topics for the research paper here:http://www.englit.org/eiland_shared/resource/paperlista.htm 19:57:43 From Ericka : Kate Chopin's, The Awakening 19:57:54 From tichure : not on the list either 19:58:00 From Ericka : ugh 19:58:07 From tichure : are you on campus or online? 19:58:45 From Ericka : online and i'm still trying to get a handle on the whole process 19:59:04 From tichure : Did you read the assignment from week one module called “choose your research paper topic” 19:59:29 From Ericka : yes 19:59:41 From Ericka : a lot to remember 20:00:27 From tichure : then you know The five or six topics you get to choose from for The research paper. seven actually: two poems, two plays, two short stories and a movie or your choices. 20:00:56 From tichure : again, the list is here. http://www.englit.org/eiland_shared/ resource/paperlista.htm 20:01:07 From tichure : Check it out and then we get to our conversation. 20:01:45 From Ericka : I'm afraid that I am going to be in one of your "last but not least" categories 20:01:52 From tichure : Allhahahaha 20:01:56 From Ericka : ha 20:02:10 From Ericka : hang on, dr 20:02:13 From tichure : will go to the point is that you need to choose something because once you choose it you can get onto your first assignment, which is the annotated work cited. That will determine whether not you can actually find the resources you need to write the paper. 20:02:22 From tichure : You got it 20:02:35 From Ericka : brb 20:05:52 From Ericka : there? 20:06:16 From tichure : still here 20:06:18 From Ericka : Am I back? 20:06:27 From tichure : yes you are 20:06:32 From tichure : twice in fact 20:06:45 From Ericka : ah 20:06:55 From tichure : did you see the list 20:07:09 From Ericka : I choose The Gutenberg Project 20:07:52 From tichure : “project Gutenbergt is a database in which they are publishing works that are in public domain. They would include things like Yellow wallpaper and cask of amontillado. 20:08:10 From tichure : You have to choose one of the stories. 20:09:20 From Ericka : I can't believe you don't have Virginia Woolf's, To the Lighthouse 20:09:34 From tichure : everybody has their favorites. 20:09:44 From Ericka : I guess so... 20:10:45 From Ericka : ok 20:11:13 From Ericka : I choose The Yellow Wallpaper 20:11:49 From tichure : Okay. You need to gather together 10 resources, the primary source included, as well as at least one and no more than two biographies, to create your annotated works cited 20:12:11 From Ericka : (You surely have the patience of Job.) 20:13:02 From tichure : my children would differ with your assessment, but I appreciate the sentiment. 20:13:51 From tichure : Frankly, you’ve chosen one of the most popular and apologized works in American literature, and probably the most popular feminist works in American literature. It should be very easy to find the resources you need in Gale and Ebscohost 20:14:28 From tichure : once you get the resources together, we can talk about critical analysis and start breaking things down there for you to write your first two body paragraphs, which will be the meat and potatoes of your first paper. 20:15:56 From Ericka : Interesting...and I thought Chopin's was the first woman out. 20:16:55 From tichure : I didn’t say Gillman was the first. 20:17:02 From Ericka : oh 20:17:10 From tichure : I said it was the most anthologized. Other than story of an hour, most of Chopin’s work is a novel length 20:17:21 From tichure : Gilman’s short story is in pretty much every college level literature anthology available. 20:17:59 From tichure : It is also one of the first works that was brought forth out of the ashes by feminist readers in the 60s and 70s when women were looking for works that were reflected their experience in view of the world. Kate Chopin and Susan Glaspell were also in that list. 20:18:47 From tichure : The point I was making actually was that your find it very easy to find resources. Your problem will be the amount of resources that you have access to will require that you read through several of them before you find one that works for the specific critical analysis that you want to apply 20:18:49 From Ericka : I did read the YW. It should be an interesting semester if you're willing to put up with me. 20:19:08 From tichure : people who were doing either one of the movies or the “dear mama” song will find a much harder time simply because their work is less respected in the literary world as a literary work. 20:19:41 From tichure : My job is to teach you critical theory and have you apply it to literature and to evaluate your progress in that. 20:20:07 From tichure : I’m sure everything else will work out just fine 20:20:31 From tichure : Are you familiar with any of the critical perspectives? 20:21:09 From Ericka : Feminist, Marxist, etc...? 20:21:18 From Ericka : Gender 20:21:47 From tichure : well then you have a good starting point. Be aware that you cannot do a Marxist criticism and feminist criticism on the first paper for any work that the feminist work. It would be the same argument. 20:22:05 From tichure : you could do Marxist and gender 20:22:07 From tichure : feminist and gender 20:22:21 From tichure : because gender criticism doesn’t discuss what’s right and wrong. It simply explains what was going on at the time 20:23:54 From tichure : Marxist is the author’s opinion expressed in the work. Feminist is the feminist analysis of the work 20:24:06 From Ericka : Is it typical and too obvious to write a Feminist criticism on the YW? 20:24:17 From tichure : since they are essentially the same, you can’t do both on the first paper 20:24:19 From tichure : no 20:24:23 From tichure : not at all., 20:24:49 From tichure : The great majority of your analysis that you will find of the stories would be feminist because most of the critics who cared to discuss the story were early feminist writers during the second wave between the 60s and the 1980s. 20:25:11 From tichure : You will have plenty of material to work with. 20:26:00 From Ericka : I thought that you would be inundated that. 20:26:20 From Ericka : I guess I got lucky. 20:26:21 From tichure : it’s not a matter of my boredom. It’s whether or not the student understands what critical perspective is. 20:26:41 From Ericka : Good 20:26:56 From tichure : Excellent. That means you have something to focus on. Start your annotated work cited. 20:27:15 From Ericka : I understand that you are not interested in me telling the story. 20:27:20 From tichure : That is correct 20:27:35 From tichure : the only time you explain character action, character description or anything like that is in relation to specific critical analysis. 20:27:48 From Ericka : Right 20:27:55 From tichure : you are writing to a particular audience. That audience knows the story. I do not need you, therefore, to explain the plot. I just need to know what it means when translated through a specific lens. 20:28:52 From tichure : it is likely you’ll be going over the same plot points and character conflicts from one critical perspective to another. What they mean is going to change from one critical perspective to another. 20:29:15 From Ericka : ugh...I have SO questions!! 20:29:25 From tichure : That’s why I am here. 20:29:30 From tichure : Ask away 20:33:07 From Ericka : I need you to understand that I am truly excited and interested in developing my analysis AND passing with a decent grade, however, passing with a decent grade is not my main objective, but it will certainly help my GPA. 20:33:55 From tichure : well, since my job is to teach you the analysis, we’re on the same page 20:34:16 From Ericka : Will studying other feminist authors be helpful in developing my paper? 20:34:24 From Ericka : Or not 20:35:17 From tichure : no 20:35:36 From tichure : you reanalyzing a single work 20:35:43 From Ericka : got it 20:36:30 From tichure : \m 20:36:45 From tichure : \ m / 20:37:51 From tichure : Not enough knuckles 20:38:01 From Ericka : Sheesh, how in the world did women have the guts to write "against the grain", so to speak? 20:38:25 From tichure : anger and privelege 20:38:38 From tichure : privilege 20:38:52 From Ericka : anger and $$$? 20:39:38 From tichure : yep 20:39:53 From tichure : those who could afford the time 20:39:55 From tichure : education 20:40:04 From tichure : and access to publication 20:40:11 From tichure : as most women did not 20:41:16 From tichure : many works were published anonymously 20:41:32 From Ericka : I know 20:41:33 From tichure : Gilman eventually created her own publishing co so she could get published 20:41:43 From tichure : esp more feminist forward work 20:41:51 From tichure : this was sold as a ghost story 20:41:55 From tichure : not a feminist work 20:42:46 From tichure : Is There Anything Else I Can Help You with This Point or Should You Get Working on the Annotated Work Cited so We Can Start Analyzing the Work More Specifically?20:49:52 From Ericka : oops 20:49:55 From tichure : Hey there Erica 20:49:58 From tichure : it’s the program. 20:50:05 From tichure : Anyway is there anything else I can help you with 20:52:56 From tichure : Back to my question Erika, can I help you with anything else. We’re just about wrapping Up here 20:53:25 From Ericka : Nothing else...thanks very much for your time 20:53:41 From tichure : my pleasure. Get started on the annotated works and then we can start talking about actual analysis of the story. 20:53:47 From tichure : I’m here every week 20:53:55 From tichure : unless I’m not here and then I would let you know in advance 20:53:56 From Ericka : That's ok, Dr. Island... 20:54:06 From tichure : have a good week Erica 20:59:24 From Ericka : Chat later 21:00:24 From tichure : take care Erica. Let me know if you run into any snags by email. Otherwise see you next week 21:00:29 From tichure : poof