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Peter RM joined the Main Room. ( 7:02 PM ) -



tichure
7:01 PM
hey peter letting folks filter in
213
7:01 PM



Peter RM
7:02 PM
Hello professor
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valking369 1 joined the Main Room. ( 7:16 PM ) -



tichure
7:15 PM
hey king. just loading folks in






valking369 1
7:15 PM
hello. sorry had a hard time getting this to run



tichure
7:15 PM
no problem
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JBurgess joined the Main Room. ( 7:21 PM ) -



tichure
7:19 PM
Hey there Burgess. Waiting for stragglers. Will start in two minutes.
have you already read the INTRODUCTION chat archive
7:20 PM






valking369 1
7:20 PM
yes



JBurgess
7:20 PM
yes i have



Peter RM
7:21 PM
yes



tichure
7:22 PM
Excellent.






valking369 1
7:24 PM
can I ask a question while we wait?



tichure
7:24 PM
sure King.
I was gonna get started but yeah go ahead
7:24 PM
in the meantime, folks, how many term papers are there for this class?
7:25 PM






valking369 1
7:25 PM
in one of your emails you said there maybe a quiz we have to get a 100% on
but I didn't see a quiz anywhere
7:25 PM



tichure
7:25 PM
Yes. For some of my courses, there is a quiz that I have people takes they understand the course material, but I don't think I do that for the 213 course.
If you can see the first weeks material ready to go, then you're ready to go
7:25 PM






valking369 1
7:25 PM
awesome
there is one research paper and one presentation
7:26 PM



tichure
7:26 PM
there you go. How many tests for this class?






valking369 1
7:26 PM
0



tichure
7:26 PM
whew
I hate taking tests.
7:27 PM
Exactly.
7:27 PM






valking369 1
7:27 PM
lol same



tichure
7:27 PM
however, what else will you be providing for me during the course of the class?






valking369 1
7:28 PM
10 annotated works cited, first draft, peer edit
final draft
7:28 PM



tichure
7:29 PM
King, you apparently have done your homework.






valking369 1
7:29 PM
should we be taking notes on the material you give us to read?



tichure
7:29 PM
Well here's the deal






valking369 1
7:29 PM
lol i read so much for the past 2 days



tichure
7:29 PM
the reason I have read that stuff is twofold. The first is that you need to be aware of the range that falls into horror literature.
You also need to understand the various modes, whether it's poetry or it's a short story or it is a play or it's a movie or whatever.
7:30 PM
But, more importantly, you also need to understand the terminology and some of the historical context. If you're watching a video made today in which somebody makes a creature, you need to understand that that person is referencing Shelley's Frankenstein.
7:30 PM
If somebody is writing a short story that you read or maybe a graphic novel and in it you have undead characters that live off of living characters, you need to understand the notion of Bram Stoker's Dracula and its impact even though people have really change the fundamental aspects of what a vampire is, especially for tween Fiction
7:31 PM
essentially, what you're getting is a wealth of information in order for you to inform us as to either historical or contextual or Marxist or other type elements that are within the work that you're going to be analyzing.
7:32 PM
That's why you need to read everything. It's not that you're doing this class so they can write about one work. It's that you're doing this class so that when you write about the work you selected, you're demonstrating a broader understanding of the entire genre.\
7:32 PM






valking369 1
7:32 PM
nice



Peter RM
7:33 PM
Sounds good



tichure
7:33 PM
Each week you're going to begin a series of assignments, most of them having to do with reading.
the idea is to get as much possible out of the reading so that when I eventually ask you to write something, you can demonstrate your understanding of what you read. This is a skills class. You need to show me that you can do what I'm asking you to do.
7:33 PM
It's that simple really
7:33 PM
that's why it's also important for you to really consider what you're deciding to do for your paper.
7:33 PM



Peter RM
7:36 PM
What is our presentation going to be about exactly?



JBurgess
7:36 PM
Im excited for this course!



tichure
7:36 PM
Basically Peter that's up to you
you are choosing something that no one else was chosen and you are going to be applying a critical perspective to it. For most people, this is a three or four paragraph discussion with a very short introduction and conclusion and then to or so body paragraphs of analysis in which you are translating a particular work.
7:37 PM
The idea is to choose something that is researchable
7:37 PM
something that is indeed a horror
7:37 PM
and something that you think you can analyze.
7:37 PM



JBurgess
7:37 PM
so we can choose our own perspective to write about, correct?






valking369 1
7:38 PM
nope



tichure
7:38 PM
Burgess, I'm not clear as to what you're asking






valking369 1
7:38 PM
strickly analysis



JBurgess
7:38 PM
valking answered it, thank you






valking369 1
7:39 PM
for me weeks 3 and on for the assignments are not clickable... so im not sure how to reserve my spot for my presentation



tichure
7:40 PM
King I think I'm going to create a folder in week one in which people can claim the week and the topic



JBurgess
7:40 PM
if you have the app you can answer the post directly in the week one slot



tichure
7:40 PM
and that way everybody can get from the get-go where
their place is going to be
7:40 PM
that's my intention Burgess. If everybody can answer the question in that one spot, that way everybody can choose their spot in advance and then when we get there, you post your bet.
7:41 PM






valking369 1
7:41 PM
thanks!



Peter RM
7:41 PM
Professor, what do you recommend to research on, if we choose a horror movie to do the presentation on?



tichure
7:42 PM
Something that is old enough or respected enough or horrible enough that it has been analyzed in a serious way. Romero gets a lot of respect. Looks based on famous novels, such as Frankenstein or Dracula also get their fair share. Stuff that is culturally important, such as the Friday the 13th series, the nightmare and L St. series, Halloween etc. also are analyzed pretty seriously.



Peter RM
7:43 PM
Ok, Thank you.



tichure
7:44 PM
And obviously, you also want something that you care about
is hard to write on something that bores the hell of you. The reason the people take this class is because they like horror literature.
7:44 PM
However, the limit here is it has to be something that I've read or seen. If you want to write about something and you on the term paper list that I give you on my website and you do not see your work, you contact me and get it sent to me immediately so that I can either watch it or read it or whatever and then you can write it as a research paper.
7:44 PM
It will also allow staff an opportunity to talk about whether or not it's a good choice. Stuf That is good for entertainment is not necessarily good for critical analysis because there is no there there.
7:45 PM



Peter RM
7:46 PM
How about the research paper?



tichure
7:46 PM
Actually, Peter I was mostly talking about the research paper in terms of something that I have to have seen or read.
So everything I just said applies to the research paper.
7:46 PM
For the little presentation, it does not have to be something that I've read, but you do have to have research material available
7:47 PM



Peter RM
7:47 PM
Oh, Ok



tichure
7:47 PM
likely however, you only enter a place in a critical perspective rather than multiple ones like you do the research paper and so the litmus test is a little less stringent but it still applies
Luckily however, you will only have to apply a single critical perspective rather than multiple ones like you do of the research paper and some litmus test is a little astringent, but it still applies.
7:47 PM
By the way, I use Dragon speak. It types well I talk. It does not necessarily always do it correctly.
7:47 PM
I use the word SIGH to identify where I have to fix this for the chat archive
7:48 PM
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valking369 1
7:48 PM
lol thats ok



tichure
7:49 PM
Folks, this is the class. Reading and writing. Start with week one and move from there. Each week I will be here to discuss any questions you may have and also to talk about the paper that you're working on at the time.Think of this as both a chat room and also in office hour.
My advice is to get started so that we have something to talk about next week.
7:49 PM
I also am here right now to answer any questions that you have about how the class works or anything else that is unclear to you
7:49 PM






valking369 1
7:50 PM
I think the first week is hectic because I was trying to absorb everthing about the class and how it works... canvas and whatever... but i think next week will be much easier
now that I get what to do
7:50 PM



tichure
7:50 PM
king, once you get started, you'll get into the swing of it. Just simply follow the elements in each module and read each part and it'll become clearer. More importantly, if it's not, we will have  something to talk about next week because you'll have read the material and you'll have more specific questions.
any questions?
7:51 PM






valking369 1
7:52 PM
night surf... was that the entire the story or part of it by king?



tichure
7:52 PM
that's the entire story
if it starts out mentioning the surf and it ends mentioning the surf, that's the story
7:52 PM
doesn't seem familiar?
7:52 PM
Does it seem familiar
7:53 PM






valking369 1
7:53 PM
ah ok... never heard of it before so I wasn't sure. just curious



tichure
7:53 PM
if it looks familiar and you've read the stand, it's because this was a short story version of that same world
same disease
7:54 PM
different people
7:54 PM
experiencing that portion of the world that King was creating for what many consider to be his magnum opus.
7:54 PM






valking369 1
7:56 PM
I had no idea stephen king in one of the few to hold up to gothic literature. that was interesting



tichure
7:57 PM
Well his roots are in the Gothic and he certainly has great respect for it. He also has used some of the standard tropes, such as the Frankenstein story and pet cemetery as well as of course his earliest works which include Salem's lot which is a vampire story.






valking369 1
7:57 PM
will we be reading more of his work?



tichure
7:58 PM
well obviously if you want to do a paper on Stephen King, I've read everything. I did my Masters degree on King. You're certainly more than welcome to do so. I don't recall specifically whether I assign more material from him to read for this class. However, as I said, you could certainly do either a paper or a presentation on King material






valking369 1
7:59 PM
sounds good



tichure
8:00 PM
Any other questions?






valking369 1
8:00 PM
Thank you professor for the chat, and clarifying everything. If we dont have anymore questions are we allowed to sign out?
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Peter RM left the Main Room. ( 8:03 PM ) -



tichure
8:02 PM
I insist King.
Get out there and start working on your stuff.
8:02 PM
Pedro, welcome. Were just here to answer any questions you may have.
8:02 PM
If you have read through the week one material, you can get started on choosing a topic for your research paper as well is deciding what you're going to do for your presentation.
8:02 PM
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valking369 1 left the Main Room. ( 8:04 PM ) -



PedroArinaga123 2
8:04 PM
Hello Professor, Iím just here checking the chat out and seeing how it works and making sure I can get in. This is my first online class so all this is fairly new to me.



tichure
8:05 PM
Well, we will meet here weekly in order to clarify ideas, answer questions about what you are particularly working on, and ultimately keep you moving to the class. Make sure that you read the material for the week prior to being in here so that way we have some context for having the conversation. You essentially are creating a single research paper during the course of the class, but you're doing it in sections and it's important that you keep up with the assignments in terms of those sections so that you have a completed research paper by the end of the semester.
Consider this either a chat room or, for most people, a quick office hour in which you can ask me questions about what you particularly are working on and I can get you back on the right track to help you finish on time
8:05 PM



PedroArinaga123 2
8:09 PM
Awesome, this can be extremely helpful to me in the future and I did have one question so far.



tichure
8:10 PM
Go ahead
ask
8:10 PM



PedroArinaga123 2
8:12 PM
So say after we have read the material for week one, after that are we suppose to answer some questions or not unless if itís under the weekly assignment?



tichure
8:13 PM
Pedro, this is not the type of online class where I test whether or not you read stuff by having you fill out a little quiz each week. This is a course in which you are gathering information in order to write what is going to be a fairly sophisticated research paper during the course of the entire class. To that end, the answer is, in short, no. Instead, you want to use the information that you got in order to create the paper. When you read a work or you're exposed to a new kind of horror literature story or there is a discussion of methodology or critical perspective, you are putting that in your mind in order to better understand how to evaluate and analyze the work that you choose to write your paper on.



PedroArinaga123 2
8:18 PM
Okay got it! Thank you!



tichure
8:19 PM
Great. Any other questions



PedroArinaga123 2
8:20 PM
I think Iím good for now. Thank you Professor.



tichure
8:21 PM
excellent. See you next week. After you've read a few things will have something to talk about.
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tichure
7:06 PM
213
Hey there King.
7:06 PM



valking369
7:06 PM
hello, how are you?



tichure
7:08 PM
Great. How's your research topic selection coming along?



valking369
7:09 PM
ok I think... I'm working on Poe for my research, and lovecraft for my presentation.



tichure
7:10 PM
Sounds good. Which particular Poe piece
/
7:10 PM



valking369
7:10 PM
The fall of the house of usher
the two stories I've picked carry a theme i think. they both have to do with families falling apart
7:11 PM
right now i'm focused on the psychoanalysis of it
7:11 PM



tichure
7:12 PM
Explain to me how you're going to apply psychoanalytical criticism.



valking369
7:14 PM
well for "the lurking fear" by lovecraft I'm trying to get across that deep family secrets build fear and thus turning us into these "hidious monsters"



tichure
7:14 PM
that's not psychoanalytical criticism. That's the point of the story
psychoanalytical criticism on a character actually starts at the end of the story
7:14 PM



valking369
7:14 PM
ahh ok..
why is that?
7:15 PM



tichure
7:15 PM
where your character ends up is what the character wanted all along. Psychoanalytical criticism applies when the character has been denying that during the entire course of the story. Freud would say that the character, despite their protests to others and even to themselves, ultimately fulfills what their underlying desires are.



valking369
7:16 PM
hmm ok... well the end of each story im working on the main character fleas the scene alive...
maybe i should change my approach?
7:16 PM



tichure
7:17 PM
to that end, the character will reveal that ultimate desire during the course of the story. One of them is with Freudian slips, slips of the tongue that reveal what they are actually thinking. "Accidents" that seem to happen to the character that draws them into their ultimate final destination, As well as dreams and hallucinations also reveal the truth about character.
Are you familiar with Winnie the Pooh and the blustery day?
7:17 PM



valking369
7:17 PM
yes
so psychoanalysis is only based off of frueds studies?
7:18 PM



tichure
7:19 PM
Well psychoanalytical also has an aspect of applying to the author and also would allow you theoretically to apply psychoanalysis directly. However, I Do not want you to psychoanalyze the character. That's not a literary device. That's a psychological device.
psychoanalytical criticism is not a psychological construct. It is a literary theory derived from Freudian psychological theory
7:19 PM
in the same way that Marxist criticism is not a discussion of Marxism per se.
7:20 PM
Feminist criticism is not feminism per se
7:20 PM
these critical perspectives are derived from these psychological, economic and social theories, but they are literary analyses which then change and modify how they get applied.
7:20 PM



valking369
7:21 PM
ok



tichure
7:22 PM
Psychoanalytical criticism than is used by authors to create stories that really is their revelation of human behavior.
In some ways, most of us put on some kind of mask in terms of what we think others will find acceptable when in reality, especially psychologically, we are much more ID driven underneath.
7:22 PM
Freud took the play Oedipus Rex by Sophocles and said that ultimately all the people in that play, regardless as to what they claim to want or desire, and up exactly where they wanted to because if they didn't, they would've made different Choices that would've made the ending impossible
7:23 PM



valking369
7:26 PM
ok, that helped. So I think I need to reseach more. I might need to change my approach



tichure
7:26 PM
well it's not that is a bad choice. You have to make sure that two things occur one. You need to make sure that the story itself has a character denying something that ultimately becomes true later.
The second thing is that you have to apply a source to the analysis. If your work is well-known enough, somebody will have done a direct literary analysis. If not, then you're going to have to take the resource that explains psychoanalytical criticism and this particular approach and you're going to have to apply to the primary source.
7:27 PM



valking369
7:28 PM
got it



tichure
7:29 PM
For most stories, especially those in the horror field, which has a lot to do with psychology (remember that Poe did not write stories about the devil causing people to do bad things; He was using the then newly minted science of psychology) and the fact that authors of this type of material often play with human nature and what we try to hide from ourselves.
That being said, if you simply psychoanalyze a character and say that they are manic-depressive or that they have some kind of complex, that's less interesting. Obviously Oedipus Rex and the Oedipus complex and the Electra complex are often used in literature to some varying degree
7:30 PM
and that is a psychoanalytical perspective because authors use it all the time. The fact is that Freud got his ideas from a literature piece
7:33 PM
and we use the same tropes over and over and over again whether it's Sophocles from 300 something BCE or it is something written yesterday
7:33 PM



valking369
7:35 PM
in both stories the narrator expresses that they have this strange want to stick around and dig deeper into the unknown. can i psychoanalyize that?



tichure
7:36 PM
of course
is that decision a good idea or a bad idea?
7:36 PM



valking369
7:38 PM
well they discover things very unnerving and they witness the fall of a "great family". the narrator doesn't die, but instead lives on most likely mentaly damaged to some degree



tichure
7:38 PM
Therefore what was the ultimate goal according to psychoanalytical criticism



valking369
7:39 PM
to uncover what ws most feared, live in terror for the remaining of their days even though the fear was conquored. it still lingers in them
lol am i on the right track?
7:40 PM



tichure
7:41 PM
yes basically they might have even been trying to either cause the destruction of others despite what they claim
or
7:41 PM
been trying to destroy themselves
7:41 PM
common psychoanalytical tropes
7:41 PM
and then you look for evidence within the narrative, within the dialogue, within the actions that demonstrate what is ultimately gonna happen in the story
7:41 PM
for example
7:41 PM
and the reason I asked you about Winnie the Pooh
7:41 PM
is the dream sequence
7:41 PM
of FOMC weaselsof heffalumps and woozels
7:42 PM



valking369
7:43 PM
wow... yea, in both the stories im working on they do mention "dream like" experiences



tichure
7:44 PM
those dreamlike experiences are the true desires or beliefs or fears
authors use this trope all the time as well.
7:44 PM



valking369
7:44 PM
wow... mind blown. haha
I feel much more confident now thanks
7:45 PM



tichure
7:45 PM
That's why I'm here.
Like I said, it's not necessarily that a critical perspective is a bad idea. You just have to make sure that you're applying it correctly.
7:45 PM



valking369
7:45 PM
like i feel like i have a better sense of where im going with this i just need to work it out in my these
thesis
7:45 PM
how do i save conversations on here?
7:46 PM



tichure
7:47 PM
I post them.
But you can always go up to edit
7:47 PM



valking369
7:47 PM
oh ok nice



tichure
7:47 PM
I'm sorry file
go to file,
7:47 PM
then save
7:47 PM
and it'll save it as a text document on your desktop
7:47 PM



valking369
7:49 PM
thanks again! do we get participation points for the chat?



tichure
7:51 PM
no...i am here to help ypou fifnish yoru work
or get started
7:51 PM



valking369
7:53 PM
alrighty. have a good night professor
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tichure
8:27 PM
poof