11:43:35 tichure : hey now 11:43:43 Taylor : Hey 11:43:56 tichure : still loading folks in 11:44:01 Taylor : ok 11:44:06 tichure : my laptop is running slow today 11:44:20 tichure : took forever to get the zoom chat to come up 11:44:36 Taylor : Its ok I understand the struggle lol 11:46:50 Taylor : Our annotated works cited is due on Saturday? 11:48:42 tichure : i think so 11:48:58 Taylor : Ok thank you 11:49:17 tichure : but if you get it done early you can submit. you get a chance to revise either way 11:50:19 Taylor : Ok thank you 11:50:28 tichure : Well, Taylor, based on our conversation on Monday, did you have any questions about your approach to your multi 11:50:37 tichure : movie in terms of Marxist or historical criticism 11:50:46 tichure : in terms of the information that you would need 11:52:11 Taylor : No I dont have any questions. I thought it was a really interesting discussion and it was cool to think about a film’s influence from a historical perspective, not just the story at face value 11:52:58 tichure : well one of the things that we discussed was whether or not we were supposed to like the main character 11:53:07 tichure : and that leads us to a different question 11:53:13 tichure : are we supposed to like the main female character 11:53:33 Taylor : I think we are supposed to like her 11:53:41 tichure : what makes her likable or relatable 11:54:58 Taylor : She is very kind to the male main character even though he treats her like trash. She is a hardworking journalist who has plans to further her education. 11:55:11 Taylor : I dont see why anyone wouldn’t like her 11:55:24 tichure : you think the portrayal of women overall in the movie is positive 11:55:43 tichure : and it doesn’t mean that every woman has to be likable. It’s just means that we have a realistic portrayal of the range of women 11:55:56 Taylor : No I think they undermine women several times in the film 11:56:20 tichure : can you give me an example besides the interactions between our main characters 11:56:27 tichure : something where we see other women also treated poorly 11:57:07 Taylor : Especially at the interview scene where she goes to the press conference and all the male journalists were getting their questions answered before the women 11:58:25 tichure : was she being treated like a journalist 11:58:37 tichure : or was he responding to her differently than he did to the men 11:59:16 tichure : in terms of tone 11:59:20 tichure : in terms of inflection 11:59:31 Taylor : No she was being treated like he wanted to sleep with her. All of the flirting and sexual remarks wouldn’t happened to the male journalists. 11:59:34 tichure : in terms of an underlying message 11:59:44 tichure : do you think this is an accurate betrayal of the female experience 11:59:50 Taylor : Women aren’t taken seriously within the media 11:59:55 Taylor : Yes I think so 12:00:02 Ravi : hi professor ihad to fix something on my computer . what are we discussiong about 12:00:07 tichure : feminist criticism is a critical perspective that analyzes the work from the feminist readers translation 12:00:32 tichure : we are discussing the movie and feminist criticism Ravi. You made it just-in- time 12:00:35 tichure : hey there Sammy 12:00:47 tichure : Taylor and I were discussing the treatment of women in the movie 12:01:02 tichure : and I asked some questions and she made the point that the main female character as a reporter was treated differently from the men 12:01:08 tichure : and I asked 12:01:20 tichure : is the movie an accurate portrayal of the treatment of women 12:01:27 tichure : is the movie an accurate portrayal of the experience of women 12:01:41 tichure : now understand I’m not asking whether or not women would necessarily like or dislike it. I’m asking whether or not it is accurate 12:01:48 tichure : and then I brought up feminist criticism 12:01:50 Ravi : I feel that the movie had some truth in terms of women's expierence in relationships 12:01:55 tichure : and now you’re all up to speed 12:01:58 Taylor : It is extremely accurate 12:02:11 tichure : feminist criticism is a critical perspective that analyzes the work and translates it from the feminist READER/viewer perspective 12:02:22 tichure : like cultural perspective, it answers two basic questions 12:02:32 tichure : the first question is whether or not the feminist agrees that what is portrayed HAPPENS 12:02:56 tichure : it’s not whether they really like or dislike that although it can be part of the discussion 12:03:08 tichure : it’s simply whether or not they think it’s realistic. 12:03:22 tichure : Understand that when you’re doing either a cultural criticism on androcentric criticism or feminist criticism, you are translating the work from an outside viewpoint 12:03:37 tichure : and when people talk about feminist criticism they’re talking about the way that the feminist perceives the world and the treatment of women in it 12:03:44 tichure : especially if you’re going to be doing first or second waves 12:03:53 tichure : I’m going to be sending an email out concerning the different waves of feminist criticism, 12:03:58 tichure : but essentially there are three waves 12:04:08 tichure : the first wave was around the turn of the 20th century and prior 12:04:16 tichure : this would be women trying to get the vote in this country 12:04:23 tichure : mostly this is women of social power and status. 12:04:27 tichure : This is mostly white women 12:04:33 tichure : and they are trying to establish the right to vote in the United States 12:05:04 tichure : that’s because without the right to vote, in many places they are not given full power in marriage relationships by law, and of course they cannot fix or enact any law because they don’t have the right to vote 12:05:21 tichure : although you will find that there was a woman congressperson for like South Dakota or Montana or something prior to women getting the right to vote in this country 12:05:36 tichure : so at one point, one woman in the entire country had the right to vote 12:05:45 tichure : the second wave, which is the most prominent, occurred in the 1960s 12:06:02 tichure : this way was concerned with equal rights for women concerning education, employment, and marriage rights as well as sexual rights 12:06:18 tichure : is coincided with the passage of Roe versus Wade and also the creation of easily obtainable birth control 12:06:29 tichure : again, this focused primarily on middle and upper-class white women 12:06:32 tichure : straight women 12:06:43 tichure : they actually intentionally separated themselves from lesbians which they called the “lavender menace” 12:06:57 tichure : then there is the third wave that occurred in the 1990s and forward 12:07:20 tichure : that is a much more broadly encompassing wave that is not only concerned with the rights for middle and upper class white women, but for the rights of all women and, as a result, the rights of all underrepresented and oppressed peoples 12:07:40 tichure : there is also a fourth wave which is mostly in the same ballpark there I still can’t quite figure out what the differences between third and fourth but I’m working on it 12:07:50 tichure : but definitely the fourth wave has a lot of emphasis on LGBT Q plus issues 12:08:11 tichure : because especially the second wave and many in third wave did not consider individuals who transitioned from male to female as suffering the same issues as women born female 12:08:19 tichure : so now 12:08:43 tichure : your analysis would essentially find various aspects within your movie to demonstrate both the good and the bad treatment of women in society that feminists are concerned about 12:08:55 tichure : and you would then address the second issue 12:09:00 tichure : and that’s whether or not they like the movie overall 12:09:11 tichure : and whether or not they like the movie overall has a lot to do with whether or not they like the editorial or MESSAGE of the movie 12:09:23 tichure : some people then assume that if women are treated badly in a movie, that feminists would not like it 12:09:28 tichure : but actually it’s a bit more nuanced 12:09:41 tichure : and again this is the same overall theory that applies to feminist criticism, androcentric criticism, and all cultural criticisms 12:09:56 tichure : in order for people to understand the plight of the oppressed, the story must be told as to how they are treated in order for change to be done 12:10:11 tichure : whether or not the feminist is going to like a movie that shows the oppression of women is gonna be based on a simple factor 12:10:32 tichure : if the oppression of women is intended to show that the of depression is wrong, feminists will like the movie 12:10:44 tichure : if the oppressed woman is likable and the oppressor is unlikable, feminists will like the movie 12:10:58 tichure : if the oppression is redressed or fixed or even avenged, feminists will like the movie 12:11:00 tichure : however 12:11:23 tichure : if oppression of women, especially exploitation sexually, is done for simple comedy or further prurient interest of a largely male audience, they will not like the movie 12:11:53 tichure : one of the aspects of 2nd wave feminism was the end the emphasis of the sexualization of the female figure, as women felt that their lack of respect in the workplace and in education was based on the notion that they were seen as sexual objects. 12:12:19 tichure : Third wave feminism flip that around and said “if you got it, use it” in the same way that we would encourage a 7 1/2 foot tall man to utilize his height and his skills in order to make money at sports if he had the coordination 12:12:29 tichure : or that we would encourage any person to use their brain if they have the intellect 12:12:50 tichure : that means secondly feminists do not like sexuality exploited 12:13:00 tichure : the third wave feminists don’t have a problem with it as long as the woman has agency 12:13:03 tichure : so 12:13:26 tichure : if we establish that the woman is treated badly by the men around her, are we on her side or are we on the oppressive side 12:13:37 tichure : in other words, do we feel that we are supposed to empathize with her and be angry or frustrated 12:13:38 Taylor : We are on her side 12:13:50 tichure : or are we supposed to be with the man, even perhaps wishing we were in their place 12:14:00 tichure : and as part of that answer, tailor, then you would give us an example of how the director does that 12:14:25 tichure : in what ways does the director portray her as either oppressed and deserving of better or perhaps of being in a position of power that we feel she rightfully owns 12:15:25 Taylor : The director makes us feel angry for her when she reveals her pregnancy and he seems less than excited about the news. In return, we are overjoyed when she realizes her worth and turns him in 12:15:51 tichure : the secondary source material for feminist criticism is not going to be found in discussions from the director. You’re not discussing whether the movie was intentionally feminist. You’re discussing how the feminist observer is translating the work, whether the director intended feminist themes or antifeminist things. And therefore you need information from feminist critics concerning the movie. You also use websites and articles written by feminists that concerns cinema generally or even the portrayal of women in literature generally or even the experience of women in real life generally and use that information to bring it back to how feminist would feel about this particular movie 12:16:06 tichure : well in general, we discussed what made the main character unlikable 12:16:15 tichure : besides perhaps empathy for her plight, what makes her generally likable 12:16:36 tichure : and does her appearance have anything to do with it 12:16:47 tichure : in fact, and this is where we get into a bit more subtlety 12:17:15 tichure : is the movie written and portrayed as such that conventionally attractive women are more empathetically portrayed then conventionally unattractive women 12:17:21 Taylor : Her appearance makes her seem nice and sweet, but in a way rebellious. A lot of women at the time didn’t have their hair that short or were seen wearing pants often 12:17:44 tichure : or use the experience for women pretty standard across the board, regardless as to appearance, including morphology, race, age and such 12:17:59 tichure : what did she say about her own appearance 12:18:05 tichure : what does she think about her own attractiveness 12:18:10 tichure : and does that make a difference 12:18:12 tichure : especially to the feminist 12:18:23 Taylor : She doesn’t think she is that pretty 12:18:35 tichure : what is her response when others tell her that she is 12:18:41 tichure : or conversely or similarly 12:18:48 tichure : was her response when people criticize her appearance 12:19:06 tichure : and of course our main character seems to be vacillating between flattering her and criticizing her, depending on his mood and her response to him 12:19:55 Taylor : When someone criticized her appearance she got insecure 12:20:37 tichure : is that realistic 12:20:43 Taylor : very 12:20:48 tichure : in fact, is criticizing a woman for her appearance a power-play 12:20:52 tichure : on the part of men 12:20:56 tichure : and on the part of women 12:21:03 Taylor : Yes for the women 12:21:14 Taylor : She becomes relatable to all the female audience 12:21:22 tichure : so in the overall, do feminists like this movie 12:21:30 Taylor : yes 12:21:40 tichure : in terms of sexuality, do they like her choices 12:21:43 tichure : especially third wave 12:21:48 Taylor : Yes and no 12:21:59 tichure : what is the distinction 12:22:17 Taylor : Yes because she does what she wants with her body, but no because she doesn’t stand up for herself enough 12:22:33 tichure : is it realistic for a woman 12:22:35 tichure : or any oppressed person 12:22:36 Taylor : But at the time, women weren’t really outspoken like that 12:22:41 Taylor : Very realistic 12:22:42 tichure : to try to fly under the radar 12:22:48 Taylor : yes 12:22:52 tichure : rather than object to every oppression 12:22:59 tichure : and in fact, is there a danger to standing up for oneself 12:23:05 tichure : when one is a minority 12:23:13 tichure : is there a danger to drawing attention to oneself 12:23:18 tichure : and demanding rights or respect 12:23:36 tichure : what would’ve happened if, during the interview at the airport, she had openly made a comment about either his sexual innuendo or the fact that some of her questions were simply ignored 12:23:45 tichure : would she have been served by that or would it have actually made the situation worse 12:24:09 tichure : again part of feminist criticism and any cultural criticism from that group is a sense that the portrayal is a realistic presentation of the experiences and feelings for that particular group 12:24:15 Taylor : Made it worse 12:24:23 tichure : and that includes being oppressed, feeling weak, being shut down, being harassed, being assaulted, 12:24:33 tichure : as well as more positive things of standing up for oneself, finding a voice, being heard, and finding victory 12:24:45 tichure : think about your movie that you’re doing for your paper 12:24:54 tichure : and think about the portrayal of the women in that movie and remember it must be within historical context 12:25:08 tichure : the movie were talking about here was made in 1960. This is going to be the beginning but it is actually prior to, the real onslaught of second wave feminism 12:25:17 tichure : but if you’re looking for an icon of second wave feminism, our main female character is that person 12:25:46 tichure : white, affluent, educated, sexually liberated, not focused on marriage as a primary goal, but rather personal satisfaction overall 12:26:40 tichure : if your movie portrays women only as either mothers (or otherwise service people) and bitches (or otherwise hostile and unpleasant) and prostitutes (simply there fore sexual pleasure of others) 12:26:53 tichure : and there is no editorial that says any of this is not what women really want, feminists do not like the movie 12:27:17 tichure : somebody here is doing the graduate? 12:27:23 tichure : Somebody here is doing cuckoo’s nest? 12:27:43 Ravi : i think logan was doing one of the two 12:27:49 Ravi : idk 12:27:50 tichure : Look at the portrayal of women and the female characters in the story and ask yourself or do the research on whether or not feminists like the range of characters (they don’t all have to be likable… Just realistic) 12:27:59 Taylor : Im doing cuckoos nest 12:28:05 Sammy : yes I am doing the graduate 12:28:14 Ravi : for pschyo do i look at marion's character and see if feminists like her 12:28:23 tichure : and of course yes atulya 12:28:29 tichure : your movie was made before second wave feminism 12:28:36 tichure : but is your character living her life as she wishes 12:28:42 tichure : is she an independent woman 12:28:48 tichure : is she a sexually liberated woman 12:28:55 tichure : in control of her own sexuality even if the choices that she makes her bad 12:29:11 Ravi : i would say that she is living the life that she wishes 12:29:12 tichure : and is the oppression that is put on her (murder) an accurate portrayal of the way that the sexually liberated female would have been treated in the 1940s 12:29:17 Ravi : but still has some regrets 12:29:28 tichure : so even though she is having a long-term sexual affair out of marriage 12:29:32 tichure : and embezzled money 12:29:37 tichure : we still like her 12:29:40 tichure : we still respect her 12:29:46 tichure : except for that whole getting murdered part 12:29:51 tichure : but we would also say 12:29:55 tichure : yeah that happens 12:30:16 tichure : your feminist criticism can be a mixed bag by the way. The feminists may like certain aspects of movie and dislike other aspects of the movie 12:30:26 tichure : they may like some female characters and dislike other female characters 12:30:43 tichure : especially a third or fourth wave feminist might have some issues with the portrayal of an individual who crossed dresses as being psychotic 12:30:46 tichure : which by the way 12:30:51 tichure : has been a common trope 12:30:57 tichure : in cinema especially horror cinema 12:31:27 tichure : and then of course you have characters in cuckoo’s nest like nurse ratchet and the girls who are brought in for Billy’s experience 12:32:01 tichure : and if there is a limited portrayal of women and all of them are negative and sit within very limited stereotypes that fit within the male translation of the world then you can probably get an idea as to how the feminist is going to respond to that portrayal 12:32:56 tichure : the graduate, similarly, is stepping into around that is certainly far more acceptable today (maybe even a fetish of sorts) but at the time was considered scandalous. The notion of an older man pursuing a younger woman was standard, but the idea of an older married woman pursuing a younger man was definitely more of a third wave approach. 12:33:19 tichure : all three of your movies should have direct feminist analysis 12:33:37 tichure : but also you will find articles and essays written from feminists that discussed cinema generally and the and the portrayal of women 12:33:49 tichure : any questions about feminist criticism, especially concerning your particular subject 12:34:29 tichure : okay so last time, Ravi asked the question about psychological or psychoanalytical criticism 12:34:35 tichure : so let’s talk about psychoanalytical criticism. 12:34:50 tichure : From a literary perspective, psychoanalytical criticism has several foci 12:35:07 tichure : but 12:35:25 tichure : lets start with the directors choice 12:35:40 tichure : look at your characters arc 12:35:51 tichure : where the character ends up 12:35:55 tichure : is where the character wanted to be 12:36:18 Ravi : no because marion ended up losing everything she had 12:36:20 tichure : and you have a psychoanalytical argument if the character seems to end up in a place that they either specifically did not want to be or is simply different from where they wanted to be 12:36:34 tichure : and the argument is, according to Freud, that an individual will always live out their subconscious desires 12:36:46 tichure : and what you’re looking for are clues and evidence that the character will lead themselves into their own outcome 12:36:52 tichure : especially for characters that end up badly like dead 12:37:05 tichure : so what did Marion do that ensured that she would end up murdered and why would she want to be dead 12:37:49 tichure : Sammy, in the graduate, what guaranteed that Mrs. Robinson would lose not only her “boyfriend” but also her daughter 12:37:55 tichure : according to Freud, there is no accident 12:38:05 Ravi : ig she went to a hotel to stay for the night. except the owner of the hotel was a sketchy dude 12:38:10 tichure : if you miss that important interview because you overslept, you establish the elements that made you late 12:38:34 Ravi : she made a decision in rush 12:38:37 tichure : Ravi, before you even get to the hotel, you have to establish that she wants to be murdered in the first place. 12:38:49 tichure : Why would she want to be dead. How is Her life going? 12:38:52 Ravi : she dosent want to be murdered 12:38:59 tichure : according to Freud she did 12:39:05 tichure : you have to understand that concept 12:39:20 tichure : psychoanalytical criticism on a character says that that character wound up exactly where she wanted subconsciously 12:39:29 tichure : and you have the CLAIM by the character that she wants to end up in point a 12:39:35 Ravi : but then again she internally might realize that if she dies then the police will not be tracking her. she was feeling insecure before going to the hotel 12:39:39 tichure : and then you have the REVEAL by the character that she really wanted to be at point B 12:39:46 tichure : how does she feel about her relationship with her boyfriend 12:39:50 tichure : how she feels at herself in that relationship 12:39:56 tichure : how does she feel about her job and the way she’s treated by her boss 12:40:04 tichure : how does she feel about the way she was treated by the client who she stole money from 12:40:10 tichure : does she want to live 12:40:11 Ravi : that's why i feel that she had this insecuirty 12:40:14 Ravi : internall 12:40:17 tichure : you must understand her age is important. 12:40:37 Ravi : i was going to bring up the coencpt of the American dream but idk if that would work in this case 12:40:40 tichure : was her age in the story 12:40:53 tichure : psychoanalytical criticism has nothing to do with the American dream 12:41:17 tichure : it has everything to do with the character being manipulated by the director with the idea that the character, despite what they claim, is going to manipulate themselves into whatever final situation they find themselves 12:41:43 tichure : if your character is dead by the end of the movie 12:41:48 tichure : or loses whatever they’re trying to attain 12:42:03 tichure : the argument is that if you go back to the movie you will find various decisions made by that character that created the ultimate outcome 12:42:12 tichure : and moreover, you will find the motivation for them wanting to have that outcome 12:42:23 tichure : Sammy, you are doing the graduate correct 12:42:45 tichure : Ravi, if your character is dead, you need to find the reasons why she is profoundly unhappy 12:43:11 tichure : and what you have is an unmarried woman in a dead-end affair (her boyfriend is married isn’t he), a dead-end job in which she is sexually harassed 12:43:21 tichure : and according to culture, she is running out of time 12:43:26 tichure : in other words, she is getting too old to be married 12:43:39 tichure : which back at that time, would’ve been any one in their late 20s or later 12:44:09 tichure : the character will make claims, trying to convince everybody else (as well as themselves, of some truth that we find out by the end of the movie is NOT true 12:44:15 tichure : because the truth is in the actuality 12:44:21 Ravi : so basically her life is full of chaos . she also struggles because she is afraid that she will be looked down upon scoiety 12:44:23 Ravi : society 12:44:25 tichure : where she ends up is where she wanted to be 12:44:30 Ravi : so she feels unhappy in her life 12:44:35 tichure : now you’re on the right track Ravi 12:44:37 tichure : yes 12:44:56 tichure : also, if during the movie she does something she never would have done before, Freud would say that that was her way of changing your life toward its inevitable conclusion 12:45:02 tichure : does she normally steal from her boss 12:45:07 tichure : does she normally run away 12:45:20 tichure : if the answer is no, this is where Freud would say that she has made the decision to alter her life course 12:45:29 Ravi : she dosent? that's why she does it with fear 12:45:34 tichure : to guarantee that she gets out of the right in which she was SURVIVING and enter into a new track that will ultimately lead to her demise 12:45:37 Ravi : and insercuity and hopes she dosent get caught 12:45:42 tichure : or maybe 12:45:42 Ravi : internally she is fighting against herself 12:45:45 Ravi : to surive 12:45:47 tichure : there you go 12:45:59 tichure : and the subconscious always wins 12:46:11 tichure : which means for this particular translation, you start at the end of the movie or lease the end of that character arc 12:46:15 tichure : and then you work backwards 12:46:20 tichure : you can do the same thing for the Anthony Perkins character 12:46:27 tichure : what happens to him by the end of the movie 12:46:32 tichure : because that’s what he always wanted 12:46:38 tichure : and he is going to make sure that that happens 12:46:44 tichure : both characters draw attention to themselves in unnecessary ways 12:46:53 tichure : both characters are doing things outside of the norm that are likely to gain attention 12:47:00 tichure : and to gain police attention 12:47:17 Ravi : i feel that Norman bates and marion are parallel to each other 12:47:27 tichure : your analysis has two basic elements. You establish the CLAIM made by the character early on as to what the overtly say they want 12:47:28 Ravi : because both of them have an internal struggle 12:47:38 tichure : absolutely. They’re both in hidden lives 12:47:43 Ravi : but for different situation 12:47:45 Ravi : s 12:47:59 tichure : they are both frustrated by an individual who is older and of the opposite sex 12:48:21 tichure : that is psychoanalytical criticism. 12:48:27 Ravi : marion is afraid of her boss, while bates is frustrated by his mother 12:48:28 tichure : You notice that were not using any particular psychological terms 12:48:42 tichure : you notice that we are not diagnosing the patient 12:48:57 Ravi : yeah i understand what a pschyanlytic analysis is better 12:49:03 tichure : we are looking at the plot of the story and showing how the character give us clues that ended up with the REVEAL, which is their ultimate fate 12:49:07 Ravi : so we are analyzing the character without giving any prescriptions 12:49:14 Ravi : or mental illness ourselves 12:49:30 tichure : if you were to say that Norman Bates is suffering from some kind of dissociative personality disorder, you’re not doing a literary psychoanalytical criticism. You are diagnosing the character the way a psychologist or psychiatrist would, which would be more of a cultural criticism 12:49:38 tichure : that is correct Ravi 12:49:55 tichure : but a psychoanalytical criticism is a literary device that talks about storytelling and character development 12:50:02 tichure : not psychological labels. 12:50:17 tichure : You can see that psychoanalytical criticism is related to a basic tenet of Freud, but were not going to diagnose the patient 12:50:30 tichure : instead, were simply going to accept the fact that where the character is is what the character wanted 12:50:36 tichure : and were looking for clues throughout the story. 12:50:38 tichure : Now understand 12:50:45 Ravi : got it 12:50:49 tichure : if your character claims they want to be married by the end of the movie and they are married by the end of the movie, you do not have a psychoanalytical argument 12:50:52 tichure : because there is no reveal 12:51:00 tichure : there’s no evidence that the person is lying to themselves or others 12:51:20 tichure : you have to have a character that claims and makes attempts to go in one direction and ends up in some other place for a psychoanalytical criticism. There has to be some kind of reveal 12:51:38 tichure : very often, directors are doing this on purpose. Hitchcock was very fond of Freudian psychology 12:51:52 tichure : use a lot of Freudian imagery and standard Freudian tropes, especially concerning sexuality and violence in his work 12:52:15 tichure : and you may find some of the overviews of Hitchcock’s work overall that you will see discussions of his manipulation of characters in a very standard psychological way, which would’ve been very popular and very common during the 1940s and 50s 12:52:46 Ravi : if the story was taken from Norman bates perspective would he be considered as a good guy and justified for his actions 12:52:50 Ravi : just asking 12:53:44 tichure : does he consider himself a good guy or does he know he’s doing wrong 12:53:57 tichure : does he realize that he is both helpless to stop himself at the same time knows that he should be stopped 12:54:07 tichure : I’m talking in the subconscious 12:54:15 tichure : on the conscious level he may say that he’s just doing what needs to be done 12:54:21 tichure : but he’s caught and arrested by the end of story 12:54:25 tichure : which means he wanted to be caught and arrested 12:54:28 tichure : he wanted to be stopped 12:54:35 tichure : and course we know that because we hear him in an argument with his mother 12:54:41 tichure : which is obviously an argument between himself and himself 12:54:49 tichure : \ she’s a nice girl mother 12:55:08 tichure : look at breathless 12:55:17 tichure : what happens to the main character, the main male character by the of the story 12:55:19 Ravi : AH THAT MAKES SENSE . he could have found a wayto escape but he wanted to be arrested subscoally cause if he knew that if he wasn't stopped then we would continue his behavior 12:55:33 tichure : there you go Ravi very good 12:55:47 tichure : and so you go about showing us what he did to guarantee that the police would show up and stop him 12:55:54 tichure : that they would discover what his secret was 12:55:59 tichure : any “accident” 12:56:02 tichure : or misstep 12:56:07 tichure : or slip up 12:56:12 tichure : is the subconscious revealing itself 12:56:34 tichure : in breathless, what did Michael do to guarantee that he would be dead by the end of the movie 12:56:51 tichure : and why would he want to be dead 12:57:10 tichure : how does he feel about himself 12:57:17 tichure : despite what he tries to tell himself and despite what he tells others 12:57:36 tichure : does he really like himself 12:57:49 tichure : has he chose a lifestyle that guarantees his demise 12:58:07 tichure : these are the type of questions that you ask, especially in a story in which the main character ultimately fails or dies by the and of the movie 12:58:23 tichure : psychoanalytical criticism is very often used in literature and film 12:58:42 tichure : and the translation really comes from going back through the movie or the story and seeing where we started to get clues that that ending was inevitable 12:58:47 Ravi : he dosent feel happy for his actions at the end. in the beg of the story we see him thinking that being a cirminal would be suffiecent for survival 12:58:56 tichure : and that the character actually put themselves in that position 12:59:11 tichure : but you’ll notice that he wants to fashion himself after the American gangster 12:59:15 tichure : which of course especially in movies 12:59:29 tichure : because back in the 1940s you cannot have characters commit crimes and get away with those crimes 12:59:41 tichure : that meant the character was usually dead by the end of the story 12:59:52 tichure : when Bogart was acting as a criminal, he was dead by the end of the movie 13:00:12 tichure : if Michael wants to be Bogart, and he wants that criminal Bogart, 13:00:16 tichure : it’s a suicide mission 13:00:23 Ravi : nowdays in cinema even if the good guy is a cimrinal he still wins. 13:00:27 tichure : and his behavior escalates during the course of the movie in order to draw attention to himself. 13:00:28 Ravi : ery different cinema 13:00:34 tichure : Because it’s running counter to what was standard in the movies 13:00:41 tichure : because authors know this well enough that they’re switching it around 13:00:44 tichure : in order to create interest 13:01:00 tichure : in the same way that we now have women, instead of being the damsel in distress, being the kick ass hero 13:01:20 tichure : but we will tire of that trope as well and find something else once it gets used too much 13:01:24 tichure : any questions. 13:01:28 tichure : About your annotated works cited 13:01:33 tichure : about the way these apply to your movie 13:01:51 Ravi : also today at 7 will there be a meeting for the research paper 13:01:53 tichure : next Monday we can either discuss the next movie 13:01:56 tichure : or discuss your paper 13:02:00 tichure : yes seven tonight 13:02:12 tichure : because you should be working on the first draft by next week 13:03:15 tichure : but watch the next move in the list. 13:03:24 tichure : And we will talk about your paper next week. 13:03:36 tichure : Have a great week Ravi 13:03:43 Ravi : alright i think ill come tonight for 13:03:48 tichure : sounds good 13:03:48 Ravi : research paper help 13:03:50 tichure : see you then 13:03:53 tichure : fantastic 13:03:55 Ravi : see ya 13:03:57 tichure : take care