Yahoo! Messenger: Conference tichure-706 started. Yahoo! Messenger: mohrpwr has joined the conference. mohrpwr: hi Yahoo! Messenger: paperbackwriter21 has joined the conference. tichure: hey now Yahoo! Messenger: knitwitsl has joined the conference. paperbackwriter21: Good evening everyone.... knitwitsl: Hello tichure: let's talk about final paper tichure: have you chosen your topics yet knitwitsl: Yes. mohrpwr: no not yet tichure: which one knit knitwitsl: "The Martian Chronicles" by Ray Bradbury tichure: very good tichure: critical approaches? knitwitsl: I'm just looking into that now. I've printed off a few biographies and I have some specific historical items I want to look up as well. Any suggestions? tichure: new historical would be interesting tichure: remember that when these were written, space travel was a dream Yahoo! Messenger: kmodjeska1 has declined to join and sent: Thanks, but no thanks. tichure: to actually have a vehicle on Mars changes are perception of what Martian means tichure: psychoanalytical perspective might also be interesting, as it would reveal Bradbury's own dreams and desires tichure: as well as his fears tichure: historical context will tell us that Americans were frightened by the sputnik satellite which was launched by the Russians in the '50s tichure: the idea of space being a friendly place or an unfriendly place was replicated in many movies and science fiction as a genre exploded, primarily creating poor ethic scenes but also creating scenes of gentle beings who would save us from ourselves tichure: poor ethic equals horrific tichure: feminist criticism would reveal the standard gender roles at the time tichure: Marxist criticism would reveal class struggles as evidenced in the stories knitwitsl: I like the approach of psychoanalytical perspective, especially with the section on book burning, but I haven't found anything yet in his biography to reveal that. But I am still looking. tichure: which particular story has to do with the burning tichure: I am familiar of course with Fahrenheit 451, but that was a separate novel knitwitsl: The House of Usher. tichure: i know however that he was concerned about censorship knitwitsl: A man came to mars to build a house of Usher because all his books were burned in the great cleansing tichure: interesting tichure: you know where the term house of usher comes from knitwitsl: Yes, but I did not read that particular story. I may do so now though. tichure: it probably is not necessary tichure: as long as you know the poe reference knitwitsl: It was interesting to see the other parts of that chapter from other books I have read. tichure: essentially the house of usher refers to a family lineage that is dying... the only two left are a brother and sister Yahoo! Messenger: gigglez127 has joined the conference. tichure: heynow 127 gigglez127: hello how is everyone doing? tichure: we are discussing final paper tichure: we are talking to knit right now gigglez127: ok tichure: in the meantime, mohr, go to http://www.englit.org/distance/engl103/paperlist.htm tichure: see what looks interesting mohrpwr: ok you know it is a thurs one day left tichure: writer, the gigglez...have you chose in your final paper topic mohrpwr: I am there looking at what I want to do tichure: mohr, one day left to do what paperbackwriter21: The Bean Trees, Kingsolver tichure: knit, look around at some secondary source material mohrpwr: if we do a poem we have to do 5-10 mohrpwr: how do we do that tichure: ahh yes writer paperbackwriter21: Haven't chosen critical approach yet.... mohrpwr: just have different sections tichure: 5 to 10 poems from the same author that are thematically linked gigglez127: for the final paper..im not sure yet? mohrpwr: ok tichure: http://www.englit.org/distance/engl103/paperlist.htm hen go to that page paperbackwriter21: I think that two are required for this paper? tichure: two critical approaches that is correct tichure: biographical and historical count as one mohrpwr: so the beatles you find 5 lyrics tichure: yes mohrpwr: ok knitwitsl: I did start on that last night and plan to spend some time in the library next week. I saw on our list that an outline and notecards are due some time soon. Do we have to give your our notecards? tichure: although if you picked a song like yesterday, you could do three critical approaches and do 7 to 10 pages tichure: note cards tichure: I was going to get to that an explained today tichure: as well as outline tichure: I just covering general questions first tichure: we will get to those details very soon gigglez127: yeah note cards...i was reading about that today? tichure: I will explain tichure: about now gigglez127: ok good tichure: how about now mohrpwr: note cards? paperbackwriter21: I haven't....what's with the note cards tichure: http://www.englit.org/eiland_shared/ppts.htm tichure: go there tichure: under organization and structure tichure: choose note cards tichure: back in a good old days, when students were gathering information for a paper, they would take three by 5 note cards into the library and began going through secondary sources tichure: the idea was that as you collected information, you would write things down so that later you could choose which secondary sources were going to be helpful and which you would discard mohrpwr: when r those due tichure: in today's modern age, we still needed organizational tool tichure: within the next two weeks mohrpwr: ok tichure: however, since you will be creating for me a Works cited page for your final draft, I want you to modify the project tichure: go to the library or get online tichure: find a series of secondary sources that you think will be hopeful tichure: give me the information that you would have with inthe Works cited tichure: author title of work title of anthology publisher city date tichure: underneath that information you will explain what the secondary source offers tichure: biography tichure: historical context tichure: critical analysis tichure: within the next two weeks you are to send me at least 7 secondary sources annotated in this way tichure: that is not to say that you will necessarily use them in your final draft paperbackwriter21: send how? tichure: attachment paperbackwriter21: thank you tichure: in fact, by going through these note cards while you are creating your essay, you will find that perhaps some information is redundant and there are other bits of information missing that will fulfill your paper mohrpwr: ok tichure: the other element that will help you in this construction is the outline tichure: began, in the old days, when papers were typewritten, smart students created an outline in order to maintain organization, because if their paper was disorganized, they had to retire the entire project tichure: today, because of computers and cut and paste, that is not so important tichure: however, many students find an outline helpful in keeping information gathering under control tichure: if you know from a outline that you need to cover biography, history, psychoanalysis, and feminist information, for example, putting your note cards side by side with your outline will show you where you have a over abundance of information and where you lack information tichure: your outline is not due to me right away unless you want commentary on where your paper is going tichure: but tichure: you must have an outline to me either before the final draft or with the final draft tichure: if I do not see an outline of this final paper you will lose 5 percent of your grade tichure: if you do not do the note cards for me you will lose another 10 percent of your grade tichure: more importantly, these can help you create a more cohesive and comprehensive paper tichure: and considering you do not get to rewrite, doing these projects for your own benefit might be in order tichure: note the examples on the note card page tichure: when you give me your final Works cited with your finished draft, merely discard any Works you did not use and take away all of the annotation... the explanations of what these are for tichure: and you have your Works cited page tichure: in other words, as you do your note cards, you are doing your op. cit. page tichure: any questions about these gigglez127: none so far mohrpwr: ok tichure: let's talk about peer editing tichure: http://www.englit.org/eiland_shared/peerreqs.htm tichure: we now have turnitin.com back tichure: you are required to submit your paper for peer editing gigglez127: the final paper mohrpwr: oh boy tichure: sends you are not in a writer classroom, we have to figure out some way to get some kind of critical response from your fellow students about the work that you're creating tichure: since you are not in a regular classroom tichure: turnit in.com does that for us tichure: the instructions for accessing this website are on the page I have just sent you tichure: once you sign in, you will be allowed to post the text of your paper tichure: only I will know whose paper belongs to whom tichure: unless of course, you include your name in the text of the paper you submit tichure: there is a space for including the text of your work tichure: there is a space for including your Works cited knitwitsl: Do our papers stay there indefinately, or do they get erased after the class is over? tichure: when you send in your essay, it will be scanned for sources automatically tichure: the entire class gets erased and archive so that only I can access it paperbackwriter21: When are these peer edits do? tichure: more importantly, knit, once they are in the archive, even as the student paper, anyone who would use your paper in a future class would get their paper red flag as having been previously submitted under your name tichure: this is primarily for your benefit tichure: so as soon as possible tichure: remember, you want some positive feedback from your fellow students tichure: before you write the final draft tichure: two weeks is good tichure: it gives you enough time to write a reasonable draft and gives you enough time to respond to what others tell you about organization, secondary source usage, and critical approach analysis tichure: Any Final research paper handed in without a peer edit (completed BEFORE the due date of the paper) will either drop one whole grade (B+ becomes a C+), or may even be rejected entirely. knitwitsl: What if no one gives you feedback on your paper? tichure: i will know you tried knitwitsl: Okay, that sound very fair. knitwitsl: "sounds very fair"! gigglez127: this is the term paper right? tichure: I would suggest, however, since this is primarily for your benefit rather than me just cracking the whip, that you buddy up with somebody can make sure that you both your papers read and you both get a chance to read someone's paper tichure: yes 127 mohrpwr: so the ruff draft has to be in two weeks early then tichure: correct mohrpwr: ok tichure: your paper is due in four weeks tichure: finished tichure: completed tichure: no rewrite mohrpwr: ok so in two tichure: no changes tichure: start work on it yesterday gigglez127: no pressure tichure: or sooner tichure: indeed tichure: nothing whatsoever mohrpwr: ha no kidding tichure: I don't feel a thing mohrpwr: I love english knitwitsl: Okay. Is anyone here willing to buddy up for a peer edit? tichure: good question mohrpwr: gigglez127: hehe paperbackwriter21: Sure tichure: we have a match gigglez127: im down for peer editing mohrpwr: we got as winner paperbackwriter21: That was easy mohrpwr: ok you and me giggles tichure: exchange e-mail addresses so that you can easily identify the work when it gets on the network gigglez127: alright got it tichure: remember that the papers when they are posted will not have names on them tichure: still make sure your partner knows the title of your work tichure: or perhaps the first line tichure: that way you know you are helping out your partner tichure: any questions about peer editing tichure: we are looking for help in structure tichure: organization tichure: critical analysis use tichure: correct format for secondary source use mohrpwr: how will you know it was done tichure: appropriate analysis of fallacy or weakness mohrpwr: just the turnin.com tichure: because I read every paper that is posted on it tichure: and you will send me a response that you got if it was sent by e-mail tichure: just make a copy and attach it to your paper tichure: how are we doing so far tichure: paper is to be 9-14 pages tichure: 3-7 secondary sources tichure: 1-10 primary sources, depending on your choice tichure: Works cited tichure: title page tichure: peer edit tichure: three or more critical approaches tichure: one weakness or fallacy tichure: which we will discuss now tichure: go to literary terms tichure: http://www.englit.org/eiland_shared/theme_terms.htm tichure: choose argument weaknesses and fallacies tichure: http://www.englit.org/eiland_shared/critical/fallacy.htm tichure: most critical analyses are based on a perspective presented by an author tichure: the idea is that the author is being reasonable and careful in his or her analyses, drying conclusions from the primary source as well as established secondary sources tichure: often, however, a person's critical analysis takes liberties with "facts" of the work or may draw conclusions that are based on portions of the text that may be denied or disproven by other sections of the taxed tichure: when this happens, the critic is creating a fallacy tichure: to better understand this, understand that any critical analysis, or even any essay or story is an agreement between the reader and the writer tichure: the agreement has to do with a shared set of assumptions and values as to good and bad tichure: analysis of the poem on its services seems to reveal that the author merely describes the painting formalistically tichure: on its surface tichure: however, to say so would be a weaker argument because closer examination of the poem reveals that the author modify its her description with terminology that clearly reflects her own values and her own viewpoints and do not reflect the literal depiction of the painting tichure: sometimes a fallacy or weakness is based on an assumption that the writer has about its reader that is not shared by the reader tichure: some critical analysis of early works by women tend to degrade that work's importance merely because a woman created it tichure: what is the assumption that this critic... usually male... thinks the audience shares with him about poetry by women paperbackwriter21: Looked down upon tichure: to because? tichure: because knitwitsl: No deeper meaning? tichure: because paperbackwriter21: Prejudice paperbackwriter21: to prejudge tichure: specifically knitwitsl: because back then they didn't think women had much depth tichure: good answer tichure: sent back in me, say, 1850 is that the majority of writers were tichure: ... mohrpwr: male knitwitsl: male tichure: and the majority of readers were tichure: ... mohrpwr: male knitwitsl: male paperbackwriter21: also male tichure: and a majority of critics were... knitwitsl: male tichure: and the majority of editors and book publishers were... knitwitsl: male. mohrpwr: male tichure: would that assumption be correct? paperbackwriter21: I am beginning to note a trend tichure: indeed mohrpwr: male knitwitsl: no mohrpwr: figured I was on a role tichure: explained knit tichure: gotta go with what you know mohr mohrpwr: ha knitwitsl: Just because women didn't write as much as men, or read as much does not mean they were not intelligent and capable of depth back then. tichure: but would the majority of readers tend to think so mohrpwr: but they were shelterd tichure: remember tichure: this is opinion tichure: this is not truth tichure: it is perspective mohrpwr: and looked down upon if they spoke out tichure: yes tichure: which brings us back to the question tichure: in the 1850s, what the majority of READERS agree with the assumption tichure: whether it was true or not mohrpwr: Male knitwitsl: So if a critique was done back then and it followed the general belief then it was a good critique? tichure: back then mohrpwr: yep tichure: writer, what is your test on knitwitsl: But we could show the fallacy of it now, right? tichure: exactly paperbackwriter21: The Awakening tichure: new historical criticism tichure: feminist criticism tichure: psychoanalytical criticism tichure: marches criticism tichure: Marxist paperbackwriter21: Feminist tichure: reader response tichure: writer, have you done any research on critical analysis tichure: How did critics respond to the awakening what was first published tichure: when it was first published paperbackwriter21: 1899 paperbackwriter21: It was considered "vulgar" tichure: why paperbackwriter21: It virtually ended Chopin's career tichure: why paperbackwriter21: The story has to do with the sexual awakening of a married woman....2 affairs...suicide tichure: if it were about a man, would the response have been todifferent paperbackwriter21: It was a very Victorian age...but it would have not been so devistating on Chopins career tichure: a weakness in a critical analysis reveals the biases and assumptions tichure: that are expected to be shared by the readership that may not be tichure: they may also be blatant Misreadings of the work tichure: critical analysis is largely based on individual perspective that is held by a critic tichure: yer welcome Yahoo! Messenger: mohrpwr has left the conference. tichure: just as we might reread the awakening from a different perspective today tichure: because of the changes in society, tichure: it is some of those changes knitwitsl: It's hard to imagine reading that book back when it was written. tichure: that themselves may out of weaknesses or fallacies tichure: true tichure: but most breakthrough work is like that tichure: it is seen much later as quality tichure: but at the time tichure: is hated tichure: and vice versa paperbackwriter21: Literally tichure: what is popular at the time tichure: turns out later to be insignificant tichure: Brittany spears tichure: enough said tichure: the star land vocal band tichure: heheh tichure: name that tune paperbackwriter21: It was 20 years ago today.... knitwitsl: It does make one wonder what is out now that is truly worth reading. Which some time I would like to ask you where to find out good books that are newly written. tichure: sometimes people who have a particular critical perspective... especially the critical perspectives that we now steady as part of this class... tend to view works through one very specific prism and often they alter the intended meaning of a work tichure: that is hit and miss, knit tichure: after awhile, you find an author by accident knitwitsl: Bummer. With so little time and so many new books out there! tichure: and then you stick with it tichure: that's what keeps the book companies in business knitwitsl: Once we find a fallacy in a critique, and and where do we put that in our paper? tichure: in a paragraph where you think it fits tichure: essentially, it will be its own paragraph tichure: it may be in response to a critical analysis that you've chosen tichure: it may be that critical response itself tichure: for example tichure: feminist criticism has broken new ground in the way that we view work both old and new tichure: however tichure: to apply the perspective that every work written by a man degrades women is fallacious tichure: for example tichure: Ernest Hemingway was usually applauded as America's greatest writer during his time tichure: his use of dialogue and his minimalist approach created a new style of literature tichure: however, feminists took to task his negative portrayal of women and declared that he hated women based on several of his characters paperbackwriter21: I never read him....Is this true? tichure: while their assessment of his female characters on the surface was correct... they were often a week, petty, angry and belittling of men...these feminist critics fail to point out that the men in his stories are equally damaged... alcoholic, petty, belittling of their women paperbackwriter21: bias based on preconceived opinions tichure: what was their mistake knitwitsl: So, according to their critique then, Hemingway didn't like people? Their mistake being that they only took one section of his writing and did not consider the whole tichure: actually, writer, that is true tichure: knit, their critique was that Hemingway didn't like women only tichure: the truth is that Hemingway did not like people tichure: he said so himself tichure: in fact, he said the best person he ever knew tichure: was his first wife tichure: he had four tichure: and committed suicide tichure: as did his father tichure: his grandfather tichure: his son tichure: and one of his granddaughters tichure: attempted it paperbackwriter21: sad knitwitsl: Then the critique was partially right? tichure: MargotHemingway tichure: from the movie Superman tichure: his other granddaughter is Muriel Hemingway Yahoo! Messenger: gigglez127 has left the conference. tichure: actually, based on their own criteria, their analysis is incorrect tichure: remember the feminist perspective tichure: the feminist perspective says that the integration of women is often intentional in order to keep them in a particular place tichure: denigration, not integration tichure: and when it is accidental, it is a result of an ingrained bias tichure: since Hemingway clearly created unlikable and damaged characters both male and female, they are drawing a conclusion that actually flies in the face of his intent tichure: in many cases, his strongest characters are women tichure: they may not be likable, but if they were man, they would certainly be the primary characters tichure: strong tichure: independent tichure: forceful tichure: given that he wrote during the early 1900s, these women would stand out tichure: and people in general would find them unlikable tichure: but feminist criticism was occurring during the 1960s tichure: when women were supposed to be viewed equally tichure: according to feminist theory tichure: which means tichure: if she is strong, she should be viewed as a strong person tichure: rather than viewed from the perspective of traditional culture that says a strong woman is... tichure: you fill in the blank knitwitsl: not very feminine tichure: that is a very diplomatic answer knitwitsl: politically correct tichure: whether or not Hemingway is for war against women is hard to say because he was writing in an era that declared that strong women were often undesirable, to say the least tichure: remember that these arguments are based on a particular perspective and very often it is the perspective that sets the guidelines for the discussion knitwitsl: Since I haven't read one of his books, are the strong women written as not nice characters? tichure: very often be weakness will merely be an omission by the author of a particular portion of a story that disproves a point tichure: it is relative, wit tichure: 1910 tichure: think about a woman's expected role tichure: now place her out in Africa hunting big game with a husband she does not respect knitwitsl: Back in 1910 I understand. But the feminist critique was done in the 1960's, right? tichure: exactly my point tichure: perhaps when Hemingway was writing this, he did intend to create this nasty character tichure: because he knew that his audience would see her as such knitwitsl: Oh. I think I understand what you are saying now. tichure: but a feminist critique should praise his portrayal as being strong and individualistic, tichure: more to the point, is his male characters were well rounded, articulate giving and kind and his females were the opposite tichure: the argument would have merit tichure: instead, he created realistic arguments between people falling in and out of love tichure: he looks like a jerk tichure: she sounds like a bitch tichure: you are feminist writer tichure: you clue in on the bitch tichure: especially if you already believe tichure: most men are jerks anyway knitwitsl: So, to show that the critique is a fallacy, one would point out that he doesn't just give an unfair treatment to his women characters, but to all characters? tichure: the main idea here is that often critical perspectives chosen by critics so narrow the scope of the conversation as to ignore important points tichure: exactly tichure: or shown examples of fair treatment to women characters tichure: and there are some tichure: Hemingway was a troubled person tichure: who wrote about troubled people tichure: likewise many of the authors that we consider geniuses today led troubled lives tichure: Edgar Allan Poe tichure: Walt Whitman tichure: Sylvia Plath knitwitsl: kind of sad tichure: their unique perspectives on life allowed them to show some of the less desirable aspects of human nature tichure: the same goes for musical artists tichure: painters tichure: poets tichure: sculptors paperbackwriter21: Van Goth tichure: anyone who expresses themselves through art tichure: exactly tichure: van gogh was a troubled man yet his art shows both confusion and beauty knitwitsl: It is still very sad - to be able to get so much enjoyment out of one persons misery. tichure: be aware that it is difficult to find weaknesses in primary sources especially in fiction because offers create characters in order to examine them. A well drawn out character that has flaws is not the result of flawed thinking by the author but rather excellent insight into the various sickness is of the human mind on story that we are all familiar with tichure: pick one knitwitsl: A short story? tichure: yes tichure: even a fable tichure: or fairytale paperbackwriter21: Cinderella tichure: ok tichure: characters? knitwitsl: Evil step mom, prince, Cinderella tichure: ok paperbackwriter21: Cinderella, Prince Charming knitwitsl: Wicked step sisters tichure: what is the purpose of the story paperbackwriter21: good conquers evil tichure: btw, have we covered mythological or archetypal criticism tichure: okay writer tichure: based on that assumption alone knitwitsl: This may sound odd, but I always thought it was to tell women that if they marry well they will be taken care of. Needless to say, I didn't care for the story! tichure: knit, you are so modern tichure: let's take this a step at a time tichure: let's take for granted that writer is correct tichure: look at the characters tichure: are the stereotypical or are they rounded and complex knitwitsl: stereotypical tichure: can we blame the author for his stereotypical characters considering his audience and the point he's trying to make tichure: who is the audience knitwitsl: young kids. tichure: yes tichure: given that information paperbackwriter21: no...it;s a children story tichure: are his characterizations appropriate knitwitsl: No. I guess things need to be rather simplistic. tichure: explain writer tichure: yes wit tichure: what happens if he points out that the stepmother is not so much what did, as merely insecure about her husbands feelings for her own daughters tichure: is not so much wicked tichure: what happens to our perception of good vs. evil paperbackwriter21: story is deminished tichure: what happens to the children's understanding of story tichure: exactly tichure: would be fair event to criticize this author for creating stereotypical negative female characters given our understanding of context paperbackwriter21: no knitwitsl: I guess not. tichure: let's take wits perspective tichure: according to wit, what is the purpose of the story tichure: much different from writer knitwitsl: to tell women that if they marry well they will be taken care of. tichure: how do they get a good man tichure: what is Cinderella rewarded for tichure: what are attributes knitwitsl: Cinderella is rewarded for sneaking out and lying to her stepmom tichure: contrast her to to step sisters tichure: before that tichure: actually,wit, she did not lie tichure: according to the original French story by Perrault knitwitsl: Oh. She is rewarded for being pretty and nice and not complaining. tichure: exactly tichure: the stepmother threw beans into the ashes and told her to pick them up and put them back tichure: her bird friends came in and sorted the beans from the ashes tichure: she was also told that she had to finish all her work tichure: which he did tichure: which she did tichure: and she was told she would have to have a dress tichure: which she got from tichure: fairy godmother tichure: it is important actually that she did NOT lie tichure: why knitwitsl: Oh yeah! It's been a while since I've seen the cartoon! Sorry. tichure: what he/she being rewarded for tichure: the cartoon is Disney tichure: and Disney changes things tichure: takes the edge off tichure: simplifies tichure: in the original tichure: there was more than one ball paperbackwriter21: I didn't know that knitwitsl: That is interesting. I would like to read the original one then. knitwitsl: It would be important that she did not lie because the writer wants to show that she is good, pretty and doesn't complain. knitwitsl: She is rewarded for being that way. tichure: well, this is important because the Prince two days to fall in love rather than a few hours tichure: very good tichure: in that case, what is the purpose of the work for its audience tichure: what is the responds it is trying to evopke tichure: response is trying to evoke knitwitsl: That good people win? tichure: who was the specific audience knitwitsl: Young girls in particular. paperbackwriter21: was it originally a childs story? tichure: what do they want in life tichure: it was instructive, writer knitwitsl: Back then, to be married to a good and wealthy man. tichure: remember that most people did not read back then, so it would have been told as a folktale until he was written down paperbackwriter21: feels of security tichure: what symbolizes good wealthy security knitwitsl: a castle? paperbackwriter21: A rich prince paperbackwriter21: definitely a castle tichure: very good tichure: who is unworthy in that society according to the story paperbackwriter21: evil doers knitwitsl: the ugly step-sisters tichure: is the word ugly necessary tichure: according to this paradigm tichure: you may refer to Disney on this one knitwitsl: That is how I've always heard them referred to. I would think it's necessary to point out the contrast of the pretty, nice Cinderella. tichure: what would happen to our perspective on the story if the step sisters were attractive tichure: of course paperbackwriter21: loss of contrast tichure: according to this story, what is your value as a female based on paperbackwriter21: black hats white hats knitwitsl: Being pretty and being nice tichure: and for men paperbackwriter21: looks paperbackwriter21: money tichure: yes tichure: how about personality tichure: to whom is more important... man or women knitwitsl: Personality doesn't seem to count if the man is rich. knitwitsl: Okay, I take part of that back. knitwitsl: The woman wants a nice, rich man. The prince wants a pretty, docile woman. tichure: good Yahoo! Messenger: sangeetha_carmona has joined the conference. Yahoo! Messenger: sangeetha_carmona has left the conference. tichure: mythological or archetypal criticism says that literature has portrayed societies expectations of various characters and situations tichure: every journey is symbolic of the trek for holy grail tichure: every young attractive woman is a victim or prize tichure: every older woman is either... tichure: fill in the blanks knitwitsl: wise knitwitsl: evil tichure: give me the stereotype tichure: which one is wise tichure: which one is evil tichure: two different distinct characters knitwitsl: wise old lady (I can knitwitsl: I hit my return too soon, sorry! tichure: heheh knitwitsl: evil step mom. tichure: very good tichure: why STEP mom paperbackwriter21: could be either, age bestoys wisdom on some, and bitterness on others paperbackwriter21: subtle hint of loss of parent knitwitsl: Because the real mother is portrayed as loving knitwitsl: and the step mom is protrayed as evil trying to replace the mother tichure: excellent tichure: what character is good and wise and old and female knitwitsl: The Fairygod mother paperbackwriter21: perfect tichure: stereotypical hero is knitwitsl: a prince tichure: mail or female knitwitsl: male paperbackwriter21: male tichure: rich or poor knitwitsl: rich tichure: landowner or not knitwitsl: landowner. And strong tichure: nice tichure: mythological criticism can often be used to point out weaknesses in presentation if the intent is to instruct tichure: however tichure: be aware that sometimes stories are written to entertain and therefore stereotypes are important and useful tichure: next week I hope to hear more about your chosen final papers tichure: in the meantime, get your secondary sources together tichure: send me your note cards tichure: take the test this week if you like knitwitsl: Okay. Have a good weekend! paperbackwriter21: Good night all tichure: take care Yahoo! Messenger: paperbackwriter21 has left the conference. Yahoo! Messenger: knitwitsl has left the conference. tichure: poof