18:55:55 From tichure : Hey Jonathan, how can I help you 18:59:17 From Jonathan to tichure - : Hello. I’m having a bit of trouble setting up the works cited. seems when I copy and paste from google docs to canvas it changes the format. any suggestions on what works best with canvas? 19:02:05 From tichure to Jonathan - : basically, one of the reasons that the school provides you with Microsoft office 365 is because you will be expected, as you will at other universities and colleges, to submit your work with either Office products or Apple products, specifically Word, PowerPoint, pages and the like. This also includes submitting attachments to your professor. If you like writing in Google docs, as many students do, simply transfer the document over to word, where things like hanging indentation are standard formatting options to the overall application. 19:02:59 From tichure to Jonathan - : Otherwise, if you force hanging indentation through using the return and using tabbing and stuff, when the professor opened your paper, it will not look like hanging indentation to them, as they will be opening it in Word or in Mac Pages. It will simply look like a broken paragraph. 19:03:49 From Jonathan to tichure - : I would like to use Microsoft word. I’ll have to reach out to IT cause I can’t seem to log into office. just email. 19:04:38 From tichure to Jonathan - : That’s interesting. Your access to that product I believe is through your library account, but also through your wingspan account, according to what students have reported in class. 19:05:07 From tichure to Jonathan - : There should be some kind of tutorial when you log into Your “my citrus” account that will give you not only access to that suite of resources, but should also have a tutorial. 19:06:15 From tichure to Jonathan - : go check out your my citrus account and see if you can see the applications there. 19:06:24 From tichure to Jonathan - : Also, have you created a virtual library card for the citrus college library? 19:07:06 From Jonathan to tichure - : I wasn’t able to log into all the applications and I’ve just been searching database 19:07:58 From Jonathan to tichure - : ,on library site. There is some problem with signing into the library and says to sign in after searching the databases 19:09:20 From tichure to Jonathan - : in order to use the databases, you must go through the library portal. In order to use the library portal, you have to have your virtual library card, which you create for yourself from a link on that library page. It is associated with your wingspan account. You re-created each semester. If you go to Tesco from your computer without going to the library, they think your private user and they want you to pay the $10,000 that it cost to have access to the database. 19:09:45 From tichure to Jonathan - : If you go to Ebscohost from your computer without going through the library, they think you are a private user and they will want you to pay the $10,000 that it costs to have access to that database. 19:10:00 From Jonathan to tichure - : pocket change lol. 19:10:06 From tichure to Jonathan - : This will be the same process at whatever college you go to, all of which will use Ebscohost, JStOR, ProQuest and the like 19:10:14 From tichure to Jonathan - : hahahah 19:10:16 From tichure to Jonathan - : indeed 19:10:33 From tichure to Jonathan - : anyway, give it a shot. I’ll be here until 9 o’clock. 19:10:44 From tichure to Jonathan - : Is or anything else I can help you with right now before you go try to get access to those elements 19:10:48 From Jonathan to tichure - : I’m trying now thanks 19:11:27 From Jonathan to tichure - : not yet. thank you 19:12:38 From tichure to Jonathan - : great. I’ll be here. Let me know how it goes 19:13:44 From Jonathan to tichure - : ok thank you 19:23:51 From tichure : hey Erica, how’s it going 19:23:58 From tichure : how can I help you 19:23:59 From Ericka : hey 19:24:32 From Ericka : what have I missed? 19:25:07 From tichure : nothing. what are you working on? 19:27:11 From Ericka : Well, I picked up a few books from the local library. One, on literary criticism and the other two are just fluff. 19:28:04 From Jonathan to tichure - : seems that I need to contact the am 19:28:23 From Ericka : Thank you for your tenacity because I don't have any...not yet, that is. 19:28:44 From Jonathan to tichure - : administrator to get permission to use office 365. I only get the email so far 19:29:36 From Ericka : I'm also under the assumption that index cards will be of help to me? 19:29:41 From tichure to Jonathan - : Jonathan, you will want to then get a hold of IT, as you intended, and figure out what’s going on with your account. 19:30:20 From Jonathan to tichure - : yes I am going to do that. thanks 19:31:13 From tichure : Erika, I am not sure how index cards will help. Index card used to be required in English classes, along with a number two pencil, because pens were not allowed in libraries and you actually walked into the place and found a gigantic cabinet filled with index cards identifying the titles and locations of various books. Each index card then would be one of your resources. We live in the electronic age now, and instead of creating your note card stack, you are creating a word document that contains the same information. Old-school is called notecards. The new terminology is the annotated work cited or, for your APA classes, the annotated references or bibliography. 19:32:52 From Ericka : I suppose that you haven't updated your website. 19:33:17 From tichure : The terms notecards and annotated works cited are used interchangeably. 19:33:34 From Ericka : I see. 19:33:37 From tichure : but the instructions actually tell you to create a single document with all of the items listed in alphabetical order with an annotation under each one 19:36:05 From Ericka : I have no further questions. My original intent was to hang out and view the comments, questions, and responses of the other students. 19:40:49 From tichure : well generally, people are using this as an office hour. In the words, they’re coming in to check in with either a specific question about what they’re working on or perhaps an issue about formatting or even, as with another student, a technical issue. Once in a while, a group of students will come in and then they’ll ask about something that creates more of a conversation, and when that happens, I archived that discussion and post it on the website. These archived chats then are more like being in the classroom, where this is your opportunity to discuss what you’ve actually researched. Once you’ve decided on your list of resources, then we can talk about how you’re going to apply a feminist criticism or Marxist criticism or historical criticism to the work that you have chosen to write your research paper on. 19:42:04 From tichure : it is possible for a state have the same kind of in class interaction as you would in my classroom but you would have to actually be working on the paper rather than just gathering your resources. At this point, gather your resources. Once you have your annotated works cited/notecards submitted, you will have an idea as to the critical analysis that is available for this particular work and then we can talk about what you’re going to say in your paper 19:42:51 From tichure : also, it is very possible that in the next several weeks, the format for this chat is going to change in which it is a shorter episode, but there’ll be more per week, as there are indications that they may shut down on campus attendance to the school and put everybody online. We will see how that goes. 19:42:59 From Ericka : Fair enough 19:44:37 From tichure : I’ll be here till 9 o’clock. If you run across some questions or issues while you’re gathering your resources, you can always pop in and asked me a question. Remember that the primary source needs to be in its alphabetical position in the list. Also, it is likely you want to use the article written by the author herself as to why she wrote the story. Finally, you need at least one biography, but don’t give me more than two. 19:45:21 From Ericka : Are you going to make us aware of any changes to the schedule on the syllabus or modules? 19:46:00 From tichure : There won’t be but if there were, I would let you know by email 19:46:17 From tichure : unless you’re talking About the schedule of chats. And yes I would. 19:46:32 From tichure : I would send emails out to everybody to let them know and I would update the website because I would have to add new sessions which would have new access codes. 19:46:58 From Ericka : Ok. Syllabus or Modules 19:48:07 From Ericka : Ok 19:49:27 From tichure : will I don’t list the chat in the modules, nor in the syllabus in terms of scheduling. It would be on the englit.org website where you got the codes to get into here. 19:51:21 From Ericka : Ok. I've got work to do. I'll talk to you later. 19:52:52 From Ericka to tichure - : Incidentally, do you compose music and/or lyrics for the guitar? 19:53:36 From tichure to Ericka - : i have, but nothing impressive 19:54:01 From tichure to Ericka - : one of my bands does a song or two 19:54:35 From Jonathan to tichure - : I’m downloading office 365 to my Mac now. Suddenly other apps started showing up within the outlook page. But I wasn’t able to use word online yet. we shall see. 19:56:54 From Jonathan : when I try to get a virtual library card I get a page that tells me there is an issue with onesearch. to search databases then log in FYI 19:57:37 From tichure : Jonathan there should be a tutorial on that page that it should tell you how to get that virtual library card. 19:57:47 From tichure : hey Chelsea, how can I help you 20:00:01 From Jonathan to tichure - : I can still search but I wonder if that’s what is affecting me using the citation selection 20:00:02 From ChelseaA : I’m having a little trouble with trying to use Marxist 20:00:47 From ChelseaA : I’m doing silence of the lambs 20:00:48 From tichure to Jonathan - : Jonathan, it would be important if you are to contact either the library or IT to tell them your concerns. It as with a lot of technical programs, it could simply be a momentary deal but if there is a bigger glitch, they would need to know about it. 20:01:29 From Jonathan to tichure - : will do. hopefully the office 365 will be resolved ?? 20:01:30 From tichure : tell me what you think Marxist criticism is, Chelsea. 20:01:38 From ChelseaA : I also bought the book if I use quotations for the movie and the book would they both be primary sources or ? 20:02:32 From tichure : Well it depends on whether you’re analyzing the book of the movie. The movie is a translation called an adaptation of the book. Because the director translates the authors words into images and actions, it technically is the director’s vision, not the writers. That’s why movies are credited to the director, not writers. 20:02:43 From ChelseaA : Marxist has to do with why they created the work 20:03:41 From tichure : Sorry 20:03:49 From Jonathan : no worries 20:04:03 From tichure : the movie is an imitation of the book. If you’re analyzing the book, the movie is only valuable in terms of helping visualize some of the actions, but ultimately the movie is the director’s vision. 20:04:38 From tichure : If you are going to use the movie as the primary source, one of your Marxist criticisms would be to explain what the director did in translating the book to film, including any changes, omissions or additions that the movie has in relation to the original work 20:04:53 From tichure : so which one are you doing; are you going to analyze the movie or the book as the primary source? 20:04:59 From ChelseaA to tichure - : Okay I bought the book by Tomas Harris 20:06:02 From tichure : So the original book by Harris is the original story. If that is your primary source, the movie may be helpful to you, but you do not have to make any reference to it and it is not have to be listed in your works 20:06:45 From ChelseaA : okay because If do use the book my secondary sources need to be referring to the book not the movie 20:06:48 From ChelseaA : right? 20:06:51 From tichure : I recommend the one that you understand the most. As with many works, a lot of people understand movies better than they understand stories simply because they are frankly better trained to follow a visual story rather than to read a novel. Which one do you know better, the book or the movie 20:07:07 From tichure : again, the primary source is the resource that you are analyzing. 20:07:19 From tichure : If you are analyzing the book, you do not need to make any reference to the movie at all. 20:07:43 From tichure : If your primary source is the movie and you’re analyzing the movie, you would use the book and your understanding of the original story as a way to explain what the director did in the movie to change what was originally in the book 20:08:08 From tichure : this includes character descriptions that do not fit the actor that was chosen, plots that are either omitted or added or changed, characters in the movie that are actually compilations of characters in the book etc. 20:08:20 From tichure : my question to you is which one you understood and really knew better. Is it the book or the movie? 20:08:34 From ChelseaA to tichure - : I would say I understand both well but I feel that I might lean toward the book but maybe I should decide that when looking for sources 20:08:38 From ChelseaA to tichure - : sorry 20:08:43 From tichure : Whichever one you choose is of no importance to me, but it does help you focus on your resource material because it can have an effect on what your secondary sources gonna be 20:08:45 From ChelseaA : I would say I understand both well but I feel that I might lean toward the book but maybe I should decide that when looking for sources 20:09:11 From tichure : yeah if you if you choose the book, you’re looking at literary sources. Those literary resources might make reference to the movie and the adaptation of the book to the movie, but ultimately there be focusing on Harrison’s work, his words and his imagery etc. In other words, it’s got to be a literary analysis of the book 20:10:09 From tichure : but movies are treated differently. Even well received so-called “literary” movies are also treated in terms of public opinion and popularity. The fact that the one you’ve chosen was obviously a very successful movie and has spotted all kinds of stuff, including TV series and multiple sequels has an effect on the way that it’s treated and the way it will be analyzed. Movie reviewers range from people who simply review the movie (not literary criticism) sees and people who analyze the movie (that is literary criticism). 20:10:48 From tichure : Roger Ebert, Lael Lowenstein, Tim Cogshell etc. etc. and resources such as Rolling Stone, Salon magazine, Ebony, the New Yorker, major newspapers etc. offer actual analysis. 20:11:16 From Jonathan : when writing responses each week are we to use the perspectives that are listed in that weeks module? I had a rough time trying to figure out which one to use. 20:11:17 From tichure : People magazine, USA Today, websites devoted to specific religious or cultural values often tend to do more reviews in which there simply telling their audience with nothing like the movie. 20:11:26 From tichure : salon magazine 20:11:29 From tichure : sigh 20:12:02 From tichure : if you’re conflicted about which one you get better material from, I would start by researching literary analysis of the book in Gale, Ebscohost, ProQuest Jstor and see if there is literary analysis 20:13:05 From tichure : if you’re struggling to find material about this book, try looking for analysis of the movie and some of the same places, but also on the databases that are associated with other publications that you would find through Ebscohost and ProQuest, which would include newspapers and Some of the more sophisticated cultural magazines like the New Yorker, Rolling Stone etc. that are catering to a well read literate audience. 20:13:20 From tichure : I don’t think you will have problems finding either one, based on the popularity of both 20:13:34 From ChelseaA : okay with Marxist that’s where I can explain the difference between the book and the movie due to society 20:13:38 From tichure : by the way, all of you have your virtual library card right? 20:13:51 From ChelseaA : I’m not sure if I explained that correctly 20:13:55 From tichure : No. Marxist criticism is a discussion of one of two issues, although it can do both. 20:14:14 From Ericka : I'm still viewing the tutorial. 20:14:25 From Ericka : Ugh 20:15:05 From tichure : Marxist criticism as one aspect, focuses on the author as the creator of something to be sold, whether it is a product, and entertainment, or an idea or a mixture of all those items. It is based on the theory from Carl Marx that art does not exist for art’s sake. Art is created to sell a product and to sell something, whether it is a philosophical idea or thing in which that art exists, such as a painting, a movie, a record, or story. 20:15:09 From ChelseaA : Marxist is classes 20:15:19 From tichure : hold on a minute Chelsea 20:15:40 From Jonathan : the tutorial on the library website differs from the library home page. No link for me to get the virtual card yet just w 20:15:54 From Jonathan : *fyi 20:16:07 From tichure : in doing this type of analysis, you need to know why the author or director or whatever made that thing, who they’re trying to appeal to and What the message is in that work. Honestly, feminist writers are going to create works that explore feminist virtues, and capitalist writers are going to portray in their fictional stories characters that eventually are going to reveal the greatness of capitalism. 20:16:17 From tichure : Thanks Jonathan. They need to know that. I will talk to the librarian people tomorrow. 20:16:41 From tichure : The other aspect of Marxist criticism has to do with class struggle. It is based on the economic theories of Marx in which he says that there are two basic classes. Those who work and those who own the means of production. Those who own the means of production are called the bourgeoisie. Those who work are called proletariat. 20:17:03 From tichure : Essentially, there will always be a class struggle in which the bourgeoisie tries to maintain their power over the proletariat, which means that they will try to keep wages low and to avoid offering opportunities for more people to join the upper-class. 20:17:29 From tichure : Meanwhile, the proletariat, which is greater in number, will try ways to gain that power from the bourgeoisie, either for themselves individually or as a group. This is often through subterfuge or even violence, but often may simply be resistance. 20:18:02 From tichure : If your story has two different social classes, two different gender classes, two different racial classes, two different ethnic classes, in which one is clearly in greater power and has some kind of control over the other, you can apply Marxist criticism by identifying which is the proletariat and which is the bourgeoisie. 20:18:13 From tichure : You will be explaining how the bourgeoisie is demonstrated in the story to be in power and how the attempt to maintain that power. 20:18:34 From tichure : You will also be explaining how the proletariat is not in power, the ways that they are abused, controlled and or manipulated, and the ways that they’re trying to resist that control and maybe trying to overthrow those who sit in the place of the bourgeoisie. 20:18:57 From tichure : That class may be identified by economic issues, such as death of a salesman. In my be gender-based, such as trifles or yellow wallpaper. 20:19:04 From tichure : It might be power based, such as police people and prisoners 20:19:16 From tichure : it might be power based in another way because one person has knowledge and the other person needs it 20:19:47 From tichure : sometimes the lines are a bit blurred. If you have a story in which an individual is in prison but has information that the police need, each of them is in a position of power and each of them is also at the mercy of the other. Is the balance of that power that is often the focus of the story 20:20:11 From tichure : where you can put the two elements of Marxist criticism together is in an instance where the author clearly makes one group more appealing than the other. 20:20:26 From tichure : Upper-class people tend to portray the upper class as regal, sophisticated and deserving, and the lower classes as resentful, lazy and needy. 20:20:37 From Ericka : Perhaps, it would be easier to apply a Marxist analysis as opposed to a Feminist one. 20:20:49 From tichure : The lower classes tend to portray the upper class as snooty, arrogant, lazy and oppressive, whereas they portray the lower classes as hard-working, industrious, oppressed and inspirational. 20:20:54 From ChelseaA to tichure - : okay right it’s why he wrote the book, the purpose and who he was trying to appeal too. the second description of Marxist not sure if I’m understanding so I could describe how people, like Hannibal, are still the ones in power and manipulating the weak ? 20:21:05 From ChelseaA : okay right it’s why he wrote the book, the purpose and who he was trying to appeal too. the second description of Marxist not sure if I’m understanding so I could describe how people, like Hannibal, are still the ones in power and manipulating the weak ? 20:21:18 From tichure : You can always apply a Marxist criticism if you know who the author is, what their life was like, and how that affects what they did as art. 20:21:21 From ChelseaA : sorry I don’t know why it keeps changing who I send the text too 20:22:17 From Jonathan : no worries. The conversation is very helpful to me 20:22:34 From tichure : In your story Chelsea, Hannibal lector is a prisoner. He is under the control of the government. In that context alone, he is the proletariat and they are the bourgeoisie. They contain control through the prison, and the prison cell and he tries to get out of that prison in order to get out of that position. However, Starling needs something from him, which puts them in a position of the psychological power over her, which is enhanced by the fact that he also, being very bright but also psychopathic, knows how to manipulate people. Technically, they are each in the position of the oppressor and the oppressed and that power balance back and forth is the focus of the movie. The fact that Lichter gets away at the end of the story tells us that he has freed himself of the chains of oppression. He is rejoined bourgeoisie. 20:23:19 From tichure : You can apply Marxist criticism without discussing the author, and you can discuss the author’s intention and the intended audience and the message without discussing class trouble (especially the if there is none) but usually an author present the class struggle because they are trying to champion one class while denigrating another. 20:23:31 From tichure : Arthur Miller always champions the working class, even though his working-class characters are flawed. 20:23:52 From tichure : Any feminist work is essentially showing a class struggle between men (the bourgeoisie) and women (the proletariat) 20:24:16 From tichure : hip-hop often shows the conflict between the house and the have-nots, between whites and nonwhites, or between the police and those who are not police. 20:24:44 From tichure : However, if you look at “dear mama”, the conflict is between individuals and poverty, which is not a person. You can say that the characters are struggling to get into the bourgeoisie, but there is no one in particular holding them down. In other words, there is no bad guy other than the system itself. 20:24:46 From ChelseaA : understood reading the book there’s so much on the women being looked over and treated differently 20:25:03 From ChelseaA : because she’s in the police force 20:25:11 From Ericka : Is that why a Marxist and Feminist analysis are essentially the same thing? 20:25:14 From tichure : well let’s face it Chelsea, you have the main character who is a woman in a man’s world. She is a copout, but she is not one of them. She is the proletariat in a bourgeoisie world of police because she’s a woman. 20:25:18 From tichure : They are not the same thing. 20:25:25 From tichure : Feminist criticism is a discussion as to how feminists view the work. 20:25:39 From ChelseaA : then gender criticism 20:26:08 From tichure : You would not discuss the author in feminist criticism. Feminist criticism is more of a cultural criticism in which you are focusing on how a feminist READER would analyze the work by essentially addressing two elements 20:26:11 From tichure : , 20:26:20 From tichure : the first is whether they agree that was portrayed actually happens 20:26:28 From tichure : the second is whether they agree with the authors editorial on the situation. 20:26:48 From tichure : There are some groups, many groups, feminists included, that will say that women are constantly harassed, manipulated and maligned in the workplace, especially in traditionally male oriented situations. 20:27:03 From tichure : Some of the groups that view that, feminists included, say that this is bad. Other groups 20:27:13 From tichure : say that that is merely part of the system and if they don’t like it, they should go work somewhere else 20:27:19 From ChelseaA to tichure - : feminist would in this case not like this story because of how starling is put down and talked down to and not treated “fairly” 20:27:28 From tichure : they make connections to hazing of all kinds of people and that women should not claim special privilege just because they’re women. 20:27:56 From ChelseaA : feminist would in this case not like this story because of how starling is put down and talked down to and not treated “fairly” 20:28:01 From tichure : However, some cultures might look at the work and declare that women are not harassed at all. They would make claims that police and fire and all their male-dominated systems are unfairly accused of abuse by those who wish to exploit the system. 20:28:08 From tichure : not necessarily. 20:28:10 From tichure : Feminists do not' 20:28:12 From tichure : dislike 20:28:18 From tichure : feminists do not dislike stories that show women being abused. 20:28:29 From tichure : They dislike stories that show women being abused in which the abuse is considered entertainment for the purposes of the audience. 20:28:31 From tichure : So 20:28:33 From tichure : you're watching a movie 20:28:41 From tichure : A woman is attacked and raped. 20:28:49 From tichure : feminists would agree this happens. 20:29:12 From tichure : If the purpose of the movie is to show the sexual content in order to titillate the audience, primarily male, with sexual behavior that shows male dominance, feminists would dislike the work 20:29:23 From ChelseaA : understood 20:29:29 From tichure : if the purpose of the movie is to demonstrate the abuse of women and how it is wrong and basically gets the audience to empathize with the victim rather than the perpetrators, feminists would like the movie 20:29:31 From tichure : ' 20:29:47 From tichure : most feminist work actually discusses in detail the abuse of women because it is the crux of their argument that they’re making that women are abused by society driven by men 20:30:11 From tichure : the same thing happens with anybody who has a particular ax to grind, whether it is gender-based, racially-based, sexual identity based, religion based whatever. They have to make the case that they are being abused by demonstrating that abuse through anecdote and example 20:30:32 From tichure : it has to do with what the authors EDITORIAL is that is going to be whether the reader, some culture, some religion or a feminist or whatever is going to agree with what the author is trying to say 20:30:36 From tichure : if we are supposed to like Starling 20:30:42 From tichure : if we’re supposed to like the narrator of yellow wallpaper 20:30:49 From tichure : if we are supposed to like the woman who murdered her husband in trifles 20:31:04 From tichure : and we are supposed to like Princess Leia 20:31:13 From tichure : and were supposed to understand their struggles and root for them to succeed, 20:31:24 From tichure : then the feminist is likely to approve of the work even though it is going to show abuse of women. 20:31:51 From tichure : Feminist criticism focuses on a response from the feminist reader in the same way that a cultural criticism from a Catholic perspective is going to explain how Catholics feels about the situation. A Islamic cultural criticism is going to look at the work through the Islamic view. 20:31:58 From tichure : A Latino cultural criticism is going to look at it through the Latino perspective. 20:32:12 From tichure : Marxist criticisms focused on the author and what the person who made the work is trying to say to the audience in the original work 20:32:34 From tichure : obviously, that means I do not want to see a Marxist criticism and feminist criticism of a feminist work because it is going to be the same argument. A feminist says XYZ and the feminist reader says XYZ again 20:33:09 From tichure : it’s repetitive. Part of this class is that you’re demonstrating that movies, stories, poems whatever you do not have a single meaning. They have a meaning based on the way that is analyzed. If you’re looking at from the authors view it means one thing. If you look at it through one of several audiences, it means something else. If you take people out of the issue and simply explain the historical context, it means something else. 20:33:36 From tichure : There is no right or wrong way to translate a work 20:33:38 From tichure : ' 20:33:45 From tichure : Authors have been often surprised and dismayed to find people misinterpreting their work 20:33:46 From tichure : ; 20:34:04 From tichure : musicians especially have requested the politicians do not use their music because the politician has beliefs that do not fit what the authors trying to say in the song, but the song has been misinterpreted 20:34:05 From tichure : ' 20:34:13 From tichure : famously, Donald Trump was asked by Neil Young not to use his songs. 20:34:14 From tichure : ' 20:34:37 From tichure : Previously, Bruce Springsteen was appalled to find out that Ronald Reagan was using “born in the USA” has some kind of victory chant when the songs actually about an American who is been screwed by the American system, especially business 20:35:02 From tichure : once the work is out in public, it is open for criticism and translation and the artist no longer has control 20:35:04 From Ericka : Didn't know that 20:35:07 From Jonathan : rock n roll ??. 20:35:18 From tichure : therefore I’m not looking for the correct answer. I’m looking for the translation that you can support with evidence 20:35:38 From tichure : If you think a particular group would like or dislike or agree or disagree with the work, you have to have evidence that they do. 20:35:47 From tichure : If you think that the author was trying to say something, find evidence that that that’s what they were trying to say. 20:36:20 From tichure : If you cannot find information on the author, you cannot apply the Marxist criticism that discusses what the author was trying to do. However, if there’s class struggle you could always apply that. 20:36:49 From ChelseaA : okay I think im eaning towards historical, gender, Marxist 20:37:03 From ChelseaA : and yes that helps a ton ! thank you! 20:37:12 From tichure : Well let’s discuss what gender criticism is. 20:37:23 From tichure : Gender criticism is a discussion of the realities for gender within a culture at a particular time 20:37:24 From Ericka : Cool 20:37:38 From tichure : gender criticism and historical criticism are essentially the same thing with the difference being the gender criticism focuses on works that are gender-based. 20:37:58 From ChelseaA : works as a comment on gender and sec roles based on society 20:38:00 From tichure : If you are basically finding all the information relative to your story or play and everything comes back to gender roles, you’re doing gender criticism, not historical criticism. Historical criticism is a broader category in which gender criticism is a more specific category. 20:38:19 From tichure : Well it works as comment by explaining whether or not characters are within the standard of gender assignment. 20:38:30 From tichure : it does not discuss what’s right or wrong. It simply explains what is within the normal or not for the given period of time 20:38:33 From tichure : so 20:38:44 From tichure : you read a story in which a woman goes to work at the factory and a man stays home and raise the children. 20:39:17 From ChelseaA : okay the story is based on a real thing that happened 20:39:17 From tichure : If this was set in 1952, both characters would be out of their gender norm, as the majority of women stayed home raising children and most men worked in factories and provided the primary income for the household 20:39:45 From tichure : if you read this today, then you’re going to be applying the standards of today in which many more women are out doing all kinds of work and there are many more men staying on raising children. These characters would not be out of their gender norm necessarily. Your evidence is gonna be statistics 20:39:47 From ChelseaA : that’s why I thought it would be historical and I could separate it from gender ? 20:39:52 From tichure : if your story is based on a real event, you’re doing historical criticism 20:40:07 From tichure : historical criticism is especially effective when the work is based on real events UNLESS the author has taken real events and turn them into fiction 20:40:21 From tichure : and then you’re back into Marxist criticism because really what you’re discussing is where the author got the story and what the author changed for publication 20:40:40 From tichure : historical criticism would be applied to something like Bruce Springsteen’s “Nebraska” which is a pretty close discussion as to what Starkweather and his girlfriend did. 20:41:08 From tichure : In fact stories that are based on real events often are designed to basically review it to other people. The ballad of Birmingham is a poem that essentially explains a bombing in Alabama. 20:41:26 From tichure : In both cases the author’s editorializing a bit, and your job with historical criticism is to take out the authors editorial and simply explain what aspects of the poem or song or play is factually true 20:41:43 From tichure : if you include what the author did and how they’re using the work to either sell a product or to create art or to make a political point, you are doing Marxist criticism. 20:42:04 From ChelseaA : okay so that I dont get them all mixed I really need to be specific with my descriptions of the quotes I use to refer it only to that criticism because they all connect 20:42:15 From tichure : Historical criticism of “dear mama” is going to focus on the fact that this narrative is an accurate portrayal, statistically, of a significant number of people living in poverty in the inner-city and the Afghan American population in the 80s and 90s, especially those families headed by a single woman raising one or more children 20:42:35 From tichure : this is why your body paragraphs are each going to be an individual separate argument. 20:42:53 From tichure : You are not showing me how all these connect. Instead, you’re showing me the different ways you can look at it, such as looking at a multifaceted cube 20:42:54 From ChelseaA : they all connect from my understanding but it’s the explanation that will separate it 20:42:58 From tichure : each side is going to look different. 20:43:07 From tichure : Exactly and what you include and not include is based on the critical perspective. 20:43:11 From tichure : Marxist criticism includes the author. 20:43:13 From tichure : Cultural criticism does not 20:43:16 From tichure : historical criticism does not 20:44:14 From tichure : Sorry 20:44:34 From tichure : anyway, while there is bleed between the individual critical perspectives in relation to each other, there are aspects of a specific written perspective that make it different from all the rest. 20:44:39 From Ericka : Ugh. I keep getting logged out. 20:44:47 From tichure : You will use historical information not only in a historical criticism and gender criticism, but often Marxist criticism and even some cultural analyses 20:44:52 From tichure : me to Erica 20:45:12 From Ericka : Good to know 20:45:13 From ChelseaA : I screenshot everything just in case I hope that’s okay 20:45:15 From tichure : you will use biographical information for the author in the rare case that you’re gonna do biographical criticism, but you also use it for Marxist criticism and for psychoanalytical criticism on the author. 20:45:23 From tichure : then that’s fine with me Chelsea 20:45:30 From tichure : I posted the chat on my website anyway. 20:45:34 From tichure : It should be up there by Monday next week 20:45:52 From tichure : you will use the same quotations from your story multiple times if they are important and if they apply to more than one critical perspective 20:46:09 From tichure : and most of the time they do. The conversation between this lady cop and this male killer is gonna be viewed differently from what the author was trying to say from what a feminist would say and from what a criminologist would say 20:46:18 From tichure : the feminist is going to focus on the gender battle 20:46:35 From tichure : the author is focusing on building tension and the development of the two characters that involves both gender and also lawn order power issues with criminals 20:46:49 From tichure : the criminologist is going really focus on how this police person is dealing with this criminal. They may have no comment at all on the gender of either one 20:47:07 From tichure : understanding of the critical perspectives works is often understanding the subtleties between them. 20:48:03 From tichure : Does that help? 20:48:19 From ChelseaA : it does! thanks you! 20:48:29 From Jonathan : I think so 20:48:42 From Ericka : It's a lot to digest, but it's helpful. 20:48:57 From Jonathan : thanks for your help all. got to go. have a good night 20:49:16 From Ericka : Night 20:49:39 From Ericka : (I'm not leaving, yet.) 20:49:47 From tichure : One of the reasons why hold the chat room is because for many people the concepts really don’t land anywhere until they apply it specifically to the work they’re working on. What I expect over the next weeks is for you to tell me what you’re working on and then we apply the critical perspectives within the context of that particular work. The more you’re familiar with your primary source, the more it makes sense in understanding the way the critical perspective is going to affect what the work means. Because you’re working with something that you’re familiar with, the critical perspective, which is actually the thing you’re learning in this class, becomes clearer because you can see how it affects the way the work is translated and viewed. 20:50:04 From ChelseaA : do you have office hours? I know I can email you but I know I have difficulty getting across what I’m thinking in a text 20:50:21 From tichure : Once you’ve gotten your annotated works cited together, you begin choosing your critical perspectives and begin creating a paragraph for each one 20:50:54 From tichure : yes. I’m in my office between 240 and 335 Monday through Thursday unless I have a meeting. If you know you really come by, let me know a day or two in advance so I can tell you whether or not I have a meeting 20:51:19 From ChelseaA : sounds great thank you so much for your help 20:51:25 From tichure : also, during the course of the semester, I will open up my classroom, and since my on-campus courses are doing the same work that you are, allow the distance of people to come in and interact only with me but with other students doing same work in a live environment. My classroom is a computer lab, so you’ll have access to everything you need in order to work on your paper 20:51:38 From tichure : if they close on the campus, then those people will end up in your chat room. 20:52:14 From Ericka : That could be a good thing. 20:52:17 From tichure : In any case, finish your annotated works, and then get started on the critical perspective analysis of your work and then we can talk about what you have found what you need to find and how it’s working. 21:00:47 From tichure : Good Lord, look at the time 21:01:01 From ChelseaA : it’s crazy, thank you so much for your help Professor eiland 21:01:05 From Ericka : Good greif, look at the time. 21:01:09 From tichure : hey folks, if you have any questions as you are getting resources, send me an email. Other than that I’ll be here next week and hopefully by that time you will be working on your critical perspective analysis in which we connect and talk about the work you’re actually working on and ways other than theoretical application of critical perspective. 21:02:13 From Ericka : Thank you 21:02:13 From tichure : Any questions? 21:02:20 From tichure : You’re welcome Erica 21:02:34 From tichure : have a great week everybody 21:02:36 From tichure : poof