pretest tichure: 103 tichure: still loading Kristen: haha nice. it's all on the englit website. i was confused at first too. i joined a week late tichure: hey now tichure: any questions? Elle: For Response to Poem of choice, do I comment on other people's responses? Elle: One poem from Calendar:Your choice tichure: it's not required Ryan 1: How often are we supposed to do responses on classmates posts? Elle: I read something about Peer... tichure: never on Canvas, Elle. You may do a peer edit on final paper Ryan 1: Ok. Cool. Elle: Should the responses be attachments or just typed right in to the box? Elle: ok tichure: in the box, elle tichure: I have very long postings in there that are no problem Elle: ok tichure: as for the responses for those who have been working on it, I will now entertain specific questions about the topic that you've chosen Ryan 1: Ok. tichure: elle, what is your topic Kristen: For the poem response? Elle: Truckin' by the Grateful Dead tichure: elle, what is your secondary source material tichure: what critical perspectives are you applying Elle: Gender critique: there is nothing mentioned about women in the lyrics tichure: elle, then that's probably a poor choice; you are trying to choose critical perspectives that apply to the work, not ones that don't tichure: what have you found on the lyrics themselves; what is your secondary source Elle: Formalist critique mainly tichure: elle, that is not an option; it's not on the list tichure: as I have mentioned before, formalist criticism is what you do in English 101 for an entire semester… there's no need to do that again in this class tichure: and since you've pointed out that gender doesn't seem to be appropriate although there is a mention of Sweet Jane… she lost her sparkle you know she isn't the same… Elle: It's a story about the life of a musician on the road John: Cultural as well. tichure: and folks, keep in mind that a cultural perspective is how someone from the culture would respond to the work… understanding terminology, making connections with symbolism etc. tichure: yes elle, and where did Hunter come up with the story Elle: It's a story of his life...over a period of time tichure: well actually of the band's life… specifically Garcia and Weir... but Hunter would be part of that as well… Elle: The words are aimed at people of his generation...cultural crit. tichure: what have you been looking into to get information Elle: Yes, it is the whole band. tichure: no elle. his words aimed at an audience is a Marxist crit. tichure: how they RESPOND is a cultural crit....its analyzing the work from a particular culture's perspective… you certainly could choose the culture that is being represented because they would be most likely to understand the lyrical content tichure: what is busted mean to somebody in that culture Elle: to get arrested tichure: exactly tichure: and what is Bourbon Street Elle: is an historic street in the French Quarter tichure: that is known for what Elle: home to many bars and strip clubs tichure: what social activities is common on Bourbon Street tichure: yes tichure: what are reds Elle: drugs....uppers tichure: seconal..a downer, actually tichure: from a cultural perspective, would the listener from the drug culture understand the idea of “sit and starin out of the hotel window… got a feeling they're gonna kick the door in again” tichure: have you found David Dodds Grateful Dead annotated lyrics site? Elle: yes tichure: excellent and have you found biographical information on the band Elle: yes...Dodds was very helpful tichure: including the drug busts Elle: lots of it tichure: he is a helpful guy tichure: excellent… remember that I don't want a biography of the band… only relevant information that occurred up to the point that the song was written tichure: no mention of Jerry Garcia's death or of him getting busted in Golden gate Park asleep in his BMW or something Elle: yes... tichure: that occurred later tichure: sounds like between biographical or Marxist and cultural you have it covered Elle: ok Kristen: well.. in the context of this song, drug addicts. tichure: well that's where you'll have to split it up… try to get as much straight up factual information as possible… the more factual the website the more likely they have stripped away the legend aspect of it or that they will identify tichure: what is legendary as legend instead of fact tichure: elle, correct and this is where we try to find that in the song tichure: but if you're going to also do a cultural analysis you need to take it away from the author himself and make it about drug culture and this is where you would find statistical information on drug users and others like them in a way that is reflected in the lyrics of song… in other words, it becomes not about the author himself but it becomes about drug use Elle: I can apply that to LSD for my lyric Elle: ie: stats on LSD tichure: that is correct Kristin tichure: but that's biographical tichure: well actually, the problem with LSD is that it is not addictive for one thing tichure: and once you're on heroin, it's very difficult to stop… you want to do more and more with less and less result… LSD is the opposite… if you do more and more it'll actually do less and less for you tichure: take a drug that's more addictive tichure: that causes lack of interaction Elle: Back to reds again Elle: lack of interaction: marijuana tichure: elle, except you don't have the cost, the fear of death nor true addiction...but most importantly, is it mentioned in the song? tichure: nor do you have consistent lack of interaction… some people use marijuana and are convivial tichure: it's a mild hallucinogen nowhere near opiates tichure: even the good stuff these days tichure: or… so I've heard Elle: they also used cocaine tichure: the Grateful Dead song, while it mentions drugs is not about drugs… it is about being on the road but being part of a drug culture at a time when those were largely against law and very profound ways in most areas of the United States tichure: that is correct Kristin tichure: Ryan, biographical criticism says that work is about the person who wrote it and a specific experience. if it is just them explaining their viewpoint on something, that is a MARXIST crit Elle: "Living on reds, Vitamin C and cocaine all a friend can say.... tichure: aint it a shame.... tichure: elle, you are going to be talking about broad ranging recreational drug use and the culture surrounding it in the late 60s early 70s tichure: and you are not really looking at heavy stuff tichure: Jerry Garcia was not into heroin until the 80s Elle: My paper focused more on seeing the world tichure: are looking at marijuana, alcohol and plinking with stuff like cocaine and ludes etc. tichure: elle, what critical perspective talks about that Elle: um...cultural? tichure: folks, is imperative that you understand the critical perspective did not broaden the understanding of the work, at least individually. Instead, they narrow down the meaning to more specific realm than might otherwise be understood by simply listening to the story tichure: the culture of seeing the world? tichure: If you can find a secondary source that talks about the culture of sightseeing or world travel, then you might have something tichure: to keep in mind that the song itself only mentions American cities tichure: Chicago New York New Orleans tichure: Detroit tichure: Dallas tichure: elle, the culture of being in an American rock band might be a more appropriate approach and there are several books written on the subject including “I am with the band”, “2000 motels” and others Elle: ok tichure: that's the whole point tichure: keep in mind that in many cases a biographical criticism is going to be denied strongly by the author tichure: even more so, a psychoanalytical criticism, which we will get to shortly, will be denied by the author… these critical perspectives are not at the permission of the author… in fact formalist criticism was created by authors as a response to critics reading too much into their work. tichure: Eventually they began to say… “hey, it's just a story… it's not about me” tichure: but the reality is you need to understand how these different critical perspectives work because they are still used as critical analytical tools tichure: back to my gender question tichure: gender criticism is a critical perspective that says that a work will be reflective of the roles and stereotypes of genders within your culture… tichure: is there any evidence that says that the description of the woman tichure: and you would identify that person is a woman… doll… etc.... is being evaluated based on her gender in terms of what she did and that what she did might be viewed differently if she were a man tichure: likewise, other elements that this character does that are expected because she's a woman but might be seen differently if she were a man Sarah: She gets into drugs Ryan 1: He has a sense of compassion for her tichure: Sarah, is that a gender-based issue… is that a problem for both men and women tichure: Good or bad Sarah Sarah: bad tichure: exactly John: I was thinking biographical and cultural. tichure: biographical criticism does not say that the work is a reflection of the author's belief system… it says that it is a reflection of the author's experience tichure: if you want to do one based on Christianity, that would be a cultural response from a Christian perspective and you would certainly finds plenty of secondary sources that John: Okay. Ryan 1: Haha. O ya tichure: is a biographical or would a cultural analysis and historical analysis be a better answer tichure: what you need to statistical historical information tichure: historical statistics on the era tichure: including tichure: police tichure: arrested/brutality tichure: drugs tichure: popular culture tichure: that is going to give you information that will support analysis of the work tichure: also a cultural analysis from youth culture will allow you to simply go through the song and explain the terminology John: Thank you. tichure: any questions about the paper John: None at the moment. tichure: what I'm looking for is your analysis of the work itself which means you will not give me… NOT give me any information historically, biographical he or culturally it is NOT relevant to this song lyric Elle: no tichure: do not give me a biography about your author tichure: do not give me a general history about hippies tichure: do not give me a general history about drug use in San Francisco John: I would say Christians to a large degree would have a say about this tichure: so what would you use for secondary source to respond to this from the cultural aspect of a Christian tichure: Find biblical references and translate them using the Bible and other Christian works as a secondary source tichure: that would be your cultural analysis from a Christian perspective tichure: you could also do a cultural analysis from a non-Christian perspective John: Okay. tichure: directly quote from your secondary sources tichure: cite only direct quotation unless it is a specific statistic that involves a number tichure: otherwise, give me direct quotation and cite that and simply paraphrase everything else without quotation or citation tichure: you must give me at least two secondary sources directly quoted per body paragraph, no exceptions tichure: you must give me at least two primary text quotes… the poem itself… directly quoted per body paragraph, no exceptions Ryan 1: Ok Thanks Professor Eiland. Tonight was extremely helpful I'm dead tired so I'm gonna retire early. tichure: read the rest later Ryan tichure: your body paragraphs should be 15 to 25 sentences long tichure: so you're going to give me a quotation from either your primary or secondary texts… or both… every 5 to 7 sentences averaged out tichure: do not use any quotation in the introduction tichure: do not use any quotation in the conclusion tichure: your thesis statement in the introduction should include the author's name, the title of the work and your literary point Ryan 1: Ok. Thank you. goodnight everybody tichure: take care Ryan John: Thank you Professor. Elle: ok meloddye: Thanks professor tichure: You're welcome melody tichure: do not give me a list of the points tichure: background statement can be a definition of your critical perspectives tichure: on my website under “organization and outlines” you will find examples of introductory paragraphs and conclusion paragraphs for English 103 tichure: that page is on the paper format and test instruction page tichure: as is a refresher on how to cite and use primary and secondary sources tichure: as well as what a Works cited page looks like tichure: which you will need tichure: with each paragraph you will name the critical perspective being applied in the first sentence of the paragraph tichure: such as tichure: from a biographical perspective, the work begins to tell the story of the author's life… tichure: or tichure: from a historical perspective, it becomes clear that the things the author talks about were indeed fact, for example, when it comes to crime statistics… etc. tichure: you will submit your responses to me on Canvas. Later on, papers will be sent by email as an attachment.. tichure: englitguy@ EarthLink.net tichure: double space the paper tichure: 1 inch margins on the sides and bottom tichure: one and a half on the top tichure: used 10 or 12 f verdana or Ariel font tichure: title page nor works cited page count as a page tichure: 5 to 7 pages of you analyzing stuff tichure: plus a Works cited page tichure: title page optional tichure: examples of English 103 papers are on my website under paper and test examples meloddye: On the firstpage do we need to write our name in MLA format? meloddye: oh never mind then I will check the examples tichure: melody, you do need to have your name on it… yes tichure: and you would be surprised how many people forget that tichure: formatting counts tichure: spelling counts tichure: sentence structure counts tichure: content counts tichure: I is a English teacher tichure: any questions Elle: no John: Nope. tichure: excellent… next week we will discuss some more critical perspectives because we will get ready for the test Kristen: Nope. this chat cleared up a lot of things for me. thank you! Sarah: You will return it and we will rewrite it again though right? tichure: that's why I'm here Kristin… I'm a clearer upper tichure: hahaha tichure: yes Sarah… tichure: unless you get that A I am expecting from you Sarah: no comment tichure: hahahaah tichure: yes you get a rewriteon paper 1 John: Can we submit rough drafts to you for critique? tichure: no tichure: thats the writing lab's area tichure: or a tutor tichure: both free John: Okay. tichure: to you tichure: any other questions tichure: good Lord, look at the time meloddye: so after you corect it so send it back we rewrite it and submit it back to you tichure: yes Melody tichure: but you only get to improve one full grade, so make that first one the best possible meloddye: and you give us another grade? tichure: yes tichure: brand-new tichure: not averaged out tichure: replaced completely meloddye: thats great! Sarah: sweet tichure: I know… I'm a great guy tichure: hahahah tichure: , legend in my own mind meloddye: :) tichure: any other questions Elle: not at this time tichure: watch the due dates for the course and the date i give you for revision tichure: I will entertain questions only the beginning of chat next week concerning your paper tichure: so be there and be concise tichure: or tichure: send me an e-mail tichure: have a good week everybody tichure: stay in touch Elle: Good night tichure: take care, l Kristen: you too! good night! tichure: thanks Kristin meloddye: good night Sarah: Thank you and good night tichure: by Melody tichure: you're welcome Sarah tichure: bye john tichure: poof