- You joined the Main Room. ( 7:12 PM ) - - Your chat permission has been enabled. ( 7:12 PM ) - tichure 7:08 PM 103 Hey there Lauren. How's it going 7:08 PM Lauren #2 7:08 PM Hey Professor ! tichure 7:09 PM have you gotten feedback from me on your paper yet? Lauren #2 7:09 PM I'm feelin stuck at the moment :/ tichure 7:09 PM Well, let's unstick you what's the problem 7:09 PM Lauren #2 7:09 PM finding secondary sources for the changeling It's not the authors most well known work so it's been hard finding anything on EBSCO, GVL etc 7:10 PM tichure 7:10 PM so here's the deal: to begin with, technically I cannot discuss with you any particular critical perspective that either applies or does not apply because, frankly, that's part of the test. However, I'm a give you some general information that you should Be able to apply to any work that you're trying to analyze. Lauren #2 7:10 PM Okay tichure 7:11 PM the first rule of course is to choose a work for which you can find the appropriate material. The reason I give you six or seven items from which to choose for the first paper and I give you three items from which to choose for the test is because you may not be able to find what you need for a specific given work. If that happens, you need to decide, perhaps, to change topics to something that has more secondary source material. 7:11 PM that being said, I know that all of these works are excellent for a test because there is enough material for three or more critical perspectives. Whether or not YOU can find them is a different deal. 7:11 PM Lauren #2 7:12 PM Okay tichure 7:12 PM In general, you always want to see if you can find something that is a direct response to the specific work that you have, which means you using the title of the work (in quotation marks so that the program knows that you want those two words together) and even the author's name, although putting both sometimes reduces search responses. 7:12 PM the second of course is to then look at the reactions to the author's other work and to get a general overview of the authors work by critics. For example, if we were to choose an author who has a bunch of material out there that all run along the same theme, like Edgar Allan Poe, and we choose a very obscure poem or story by him, we can use the other information written about his work in general in terms of its emphasis on the macabre, its emphasis on first-person narrative, it's emphasis on psychology over religion, to analyze even the most secure work if that translation fits. 7:13 PM Likewise, most cultural and reader response analyses are not going to talk about the primary source. There is talk about the subject that the primary source brings up and then YOU are required to explain what they believe on that subject and therefore extrapolate from that how they would respond to the work in terms of agreeing or disagreeing with the author's opinion on the subject. 7:14 PM So to go back to Edgar Allen Poe, if we were to find the values and rules for the Roman Catholic Church, they would look at "cask of amontillado" as an example of a man suffering from guilt because he has broken a cardinal rule of the church, which is murder, and he is afraid of eternal damnation, which is one of the tenets of hat particular religion. There's no essay by the Roman Catholic Church that discusses this particular work or even this particular author. Instead you are taking their information and then explaining how they would agree that the narrator is feeling guilty and in despair, rightfully so. They might not like the author's editorial that may tend to make us feel a bit empathetic toward the character, unless of course they are in the "hate the sin love the sinner" mentality, which tends a little bit more toward evangelical and other Protestant versions of Christianity. 7:16 PM when it really gets down to it, you can always find enough information for analysis that discusses what the author's point in the work is (Marxist criticism), whether or not it's biographical in nature. You can always find a cultural response because as long as the work depicts some aspect of human nature, there is always somebody who agrees with that viewpoint and there's always somebody who disagrees with that viewpoint. 7:17 PM Your job for the test, as well as on the paper, of course, is to find appropriate viewpoints (critical perspectives) that apply to your specific chosen work. 7:18 PM Lauren #2 7:19 PM Alright, thank you. That helps. Will there be another test? I noticed on our syllabus we have an exam worth 25 and a test for 25 points? tichure 7:19 PM Your understanding of the critical perspectives themselves is reflected in what you try to apply to a particular work. That's why for many students, while they did some very good research on, for example, Tupac Shakur, they misapply the critical perspective because they either gave statistical information for a cultural response when they should've given how that culture would respond to the work or they discuss the authors opinion as expressed in the work and his intended audience, but they identified that analysis is biographical criticism. Lauren #2 7:20 PM Hmm okay I understand tichure 7:20 PM Actually there is only one test grade toward your final grade if you look at the syllabus. I will give you two opportunities to fulfill that grade. If you are happy with your first test grade, you will not take the final exam. If you end up taking the first test and do not take the final, I remove the final from your grade percentage so that you're not missing this big chunk of your grade. Likewise, if you decide to take the final, I removed the first test from your grade. 7:20 PM Lauren #2 7:21 PM Oh okay. That makes sense tichure 7:21 PM You end up with only one test grade. This is similar to turning in the first draft of a response or of the first paper and then getting a chance at revision. It's the revision that counts, not the first draft. Lauren #2 7:21 PM Will the final be the same (on campus timed essay) as the exam? tichure 7:21 PM Remember that writing is a skill and requires practice, and of course in order to understand whether or not you are doing the right thing, you need feedback and the opportunity to then take another shot at it. Lauren #2 7:21 PM final test grade I mean tichure 7:22 PM The final will not be on the same subject, as I will give you three more works to choose from for the final exam. That's because once the test is over, we talk about it in this room or I post a chat that discusses the "answers" to the test. 7:22 PM Lauren #2 7:22 PM Agreed. I emailed you earlier today about not meeting the minimum requirements in 80 mins. I think that's where my struggle is. It takes me a while to write Oh I see 7:22 PM tichure 7:23 PM What do you mean by not meeting the minimum requirements? Lauren #2 7:23 PM 5 paragraphs, 3 crits, etc... the minimum requirements for a passing grade on the exam tichure 7:23 PM Yeah. You must remember that writing a test and writing under timed pressure is a different skill than taking a week or three weeks to write a longer research document. They're both required in your schoolwork throughout your college career (and in many jobs) but they are different skills. You do need to be able to do both. That's why I tell you to watch your time and make sure that your body paragraphs are 10 sentences, whereas for the paper, a 10 sentence body paragraph is woefully short. You need at least one quotation from the primary source and one quotation from a secondary source on the test, whereas for the paper, that is woefully short. You only need one secondary source for each critical perspective on the test but you must have at least two or more secondary sources for each critical perspective on the paper. 7:24 PM That means the paper is trying to show ALL of the analysis from particular critical perspective where's the test is a SAMPLE of that analysis. 7:24 PM Lauren #2 7:25 PM Right tichure 7:26 PM You are also allowed, as you saw in emails, to add one and two word notations on the side.... that's also why I expect you've chosen the critical perspectives in advance, printed out your material and have highlighted the quotations you're going to use in order to facilitate rapidly finding what you need for a given argument. . You are also allowed, as you saw in emails, to add one and two word notations on the side in order to facilitate rapidly finding what you need for a given argument. 7:27 PM it's a skill. 7:27 PM Some people do very poorly on the extended paper but are very good at getting right to the point on a test. 7:27 PM Lauren #2 7:27 PM Okay. Is there a limit to how many pages we are allowed to bring in of secondary sources? tichure 7:28 PM Others will turn in a Masters thesis for the research paper but their test looks like random brain droppings. It's all a matter of how someone’s brain works. 7:28 PM No there is not. In fact I address that in the email as well. You want enough material that you have access to what you need for the test, you do not want to overwhelm yourself with so many pages of research that you're fumbling through a bunch of stuff for 15 minutes to find a quotation 7:28 PM it's a matter of balance 7:29 PM so 7:29 PM just concisely, was it the length or the application of the critical perspective that you think did not go well? 7:29 PM Lauren #2 7:29 PM I am taking the exam tomorrow :) tichure 7:31 PM Go in there with a plan and make sure that you've chosen to work for which you can find satisfactory secondary sources. It's not about finding what you WANT to write about. It's about finding what you CAN write about. Lauren #2 7:33 PM Thanks professor :'( tichure 7:33 PM I do not grade a test and a paper the same way. While grammar and punctuation all are are important, I realize that a test does not offer opportunities for profound revision. Obviously I'm a lot more lenient on length and scope and breadth of the analysis. It's a test, not a dissertation. Lauren #2 7:33 PM overwhelming myself with info is more accurate tichure 7:33 PM Show me what you know as concisely as possible. Stay within the confines and do not spend 45 minutes on the first critical perspective. I thought that might be an issue. 7:33 PM And again, 7:33 PM rule one 7:33 PM if you cannot find the secondary source material you need either change perspectives or change the primary source. I gave you three to choose from. If you're not finding what you want, move on. 7:34 PM Lauren #2 7:34 PM Okay I think I'm okay now as far as questions. I am gonna get to researching 7:35 PM tichure 7:36 PM Then get to it and I will be here till 9 o'clock. Did you have any questions about your paper before you go? 7:36 PM I realize there wasn't much for you to do, but I do want you to do those things, especially for that final draft if you decide not to revise this paper which is an option of course 7:36 PM Lauren #2 7:37 PM Mmm.. No... I only needed to make minor changes by putting my historical crit first and a few other things. I think it's coming along nicely. We will have one more chance to revise or is the next due date the final paper? Will you not be reviewing our final two crit perspectives before our final submission? 7:38 PM tichure 7:39 PM Not that you will need it, but no, you only get one chance to revise paper one. but of course you are gonna get another shot at that particular set of critical perspectives because your including those in the final draft with the total for critical perspectives. 7:39 PM And of course yes I am reviewing one of your two final critical perspectives because that's what response THREE is for. That's why I moved it back so that once you start on that final draft, you have an opportunity to send me a sample from one of your two new critical perspectives. 7:40 PM Lauren #2 7:40 PM Oh duh I didn't see response 3. Sounds good! 7:40 PM Thanks for all the help! :) 7:42 PM tichure 7:44 PM That's because I pushed it back a week. That's why we have a response one (any poem), response two (sample crit of first draft research paper), response four (drama) and then response three (sample of final paper critical perspective) Lauren #2 7:46 PM Thank you! 7:46 PM tichure 7:46 PM I'm sure you can handle it. Lauren #2 left the Main Room. ( 7:52 PM ) - - tichure 7:46 PM poof