- You joined the Main Room. ( 7:03 PM ) - - Your chat permission has been enabled. ( 7:03 PM ) - - Vonice joined the Main Room. ( 7:04 PM ) - tichure 7:03 PM 103 Vonice 7:03 PM Hello, Prof. Eiland tichure 7:03 PM hows paper 1 coming along Vonice 7:03 PM long days and longer nights It's coming, though 7:03 PM tichure 7:03 PM topic? - Anna joined the Main Room. ( 7:06 PM ) - tichure 7:05 PM hey anna how 7:05 PM is 7:05 PM paper 1 coming along 7:05 PM Vonice 7:05 PM 70's Funk music and Rick James's "Super Freak" tichure 7:05 PM well....which crits for super freak Anna 7:06 PM Hi Professor Vonice 7:06 PM I'm using cultural tichure 7:06 PM and how does 70s funk play into your paper? whioch cultural 7:06 PM and 7:06 PM you need at least three crits vonice 7:06 PM Anna 7:06 PM I'm doing Big Yellow Taxi Vonice 7:06 PM I wrote, "socio-ethno" tichure 7:06 PM which crits anna vonice...what is socio ethno crit? 7:06 PM Anna 7:06 PM biography, historical tichure 7:06 PM cultrual and anna? 7:07 PM you need one more 7:07 PM Vonice 7:07 PM yes, cultural Anna 7:07 PM i wanted to as if environmental would fall under cultural? because the song sounded more as an environmental issue 7:08 PM tichure 7:08 PM Let's talk about Vonice first. Vonice, what is socio-ethno cultural criticism 7:08 PM Vonice 7:09 PM okay.... tichure 7:09 PM cultural criticism is a critical perspective in which you identify a culture from which you will translate the work tichure 7:09 PM that means you must identify a specific culture and then tell me how that culture would respond to the work. 7:09 PM So's US know is like saying you're going to do cultural criticism. It doesn't identify which cultural translation 7:09 PM Vonice 7:09 PM biographical, cultural, and feminist ...perspectives 7:09 PM tichure 7:10 PM those are critical perspectives Vonice I understand what you're saying now except for one thing 7:10 PM which cultural perspective will you apply? 7:10 PM Vonice 7:12 PM "Counterculture music"?? tichure 7:12 PM Is that culture? Vonice 7:12 PM Yes tichure 7:12 PM Can you find a resource in which people who believe in that will have clarified what they believe in? Vonice 7:13 PM Woodstock... Drugs and sexual freedom Psychodelic drugs... 7:13 PM tichure 7:14 PM what are you using as a resource specifically Vonice? Woodstock is an event and it's a movie‚Ķ How are you extrapolating their belief system from that? 7:14 PM Vonice 7:14 PM Rick James's Biography tichure 7:15 PM That's biographical criticism. Vonice 7:15 PM Newsweek magazine tichure 7:15 PM Which discusses‚Ķ does the article discuss Rick James or does it discuss a lifestyle? 7:15 PM Vonice 7:16 PM Contrary to popular belief, I'm hearing the first chorus in the lyrics as, "The kind of girl you read about in Newsweek magazine" tichure 7:16 PM What your hearing and what it actually says might be different. But I guess it gets back to this: 7:16 PM Vonice 7:16 PM On May 30, 1977 a popular article glamorizes cocaine use tichure 7:16 PM any cultural analysis requires you to find a resource in which the culture describes its values and beliefs and mores. that would be a better idea. is cocaine mentioned in the song? 7:17 PM Vonice 7:17 PM The song is alluding to romaticims with cocaine use tichure 7:17 PM For example Vonice 7:17 PM because the lyrics repetively refer to "girl" never a woman or a name 7:17 PM repetitively 7:18 PM tichure 7:18 PM what does that have to do with cocaine Vonice 7:18 PM Well, cocaine was widely referred to as "girl" tichure 7:18 PM so you're argument is that from particular cultural perspective, this is a song about cocaine and not about a girl Vonice 7:18 PM a street or social reference yes 7:18 PM tichure 7:19 PM and which particular culture refers to cocaine as girl? Vonice 7:19 PM street, high hollywood society music culture,,, 7:19 PM ... 7:19 PM tichure 7:19 PM And you found a secondary source for this 7:19 PM Vonice 7:19 PM I did... tichure 7:19 PM excellent sounds like you have three solid arguments 7:20 PM How would a feminist respond to this work? 7:20 PM Vonice 7:20 PM I was swaying, either toward feminists... because of the allegoric personification within the lyrics or religion 7:21 PM tichure 7:21 PM would they like or dislike song 7:21 PM Vonice 7:21 PM would dislike the song\ tichure 7:21 PM why and understand that feminist and religion would have probably a similar overall reaction but for fundamentally different reasons. 7:21 PM Vonice 7:22 PM because it "seems" to refer to women as "freaks", which could take on several meanings tichure 7:22 PM Well Vonice let's get down to brass tacks. What is James talking about if this is actually referring to a woman 7:22 PM what is her appeal according to him? 7:22 PM Vonice 7:23 PM her "kinkiness" tichure 7:23 PM Be specific what is he specifically say in the song 7:23 PM Vonice 7:23 PM he's infatuated with her tichure 7:23 PM what makes her kinky specifically 7:23 PM according to the song 7:23 PM Vonice 7:23 PM "the kind you don't take home to mother" tichure 7:23 PM what does that mean hahhaahah 7:23 PM I know what the lyrics are. I want to know what they MEAN 7:23 PM Vonice 7:24 PM "when I get there she's got incense, wine and candles" tichure 7:24 PM Anna, are you familiar with this song? Sounds very romantic Vonice 7:24 PM Vonice 7:24 PM romantisms right 7:24 PM tichure 7:24 PM in what ways is she not the kind of person you would take home to your parents Vonice 7:24 PM she's a drug tichure 7:24 PM No know she's not 7:24 PM Vonice 7:24 PM okay tichure 7:24 PM only to one particular segment of the population. Vonice 7:24 PM okay tichure 7:24 PM When you translate a work from a particular perspective, that does not bleed into another critical perspective. Only two people who see life through a cocaine haze would recognize this as a reference to cocaine 7:24 PM in other words only people in that world. 7:25 PM Nobody else, this is a very literal description of very specific type of girl‚Ķ human being‚Ķ that the author describes in very specific ways as to her behaviors and attitudes 7:25 PM . 7:25 PM Anna 7:25 PM i just saw the lyrics in passing, sorry tichure 7:25 PM To everyone else, this is a very literal description‚Ķ that's all I want to know Anna 7:25 PM as part of this for both of you, 7:25 PM and the reason I'm using the songs because it's very short 7:25 PM if you look at the lyrics you will realize that the author has condensed imagery very concisely into this. 7:25 PM Look at the lyrics as if he's talking about an actual woman 7:25 PM because feminist not care if it's not about a woman. 7:25 PM hahhaha 7:25 PM They DO care if it's about a woman because it has to do with his view of women and how women are portrayed in what their value is as reflected by yet another man. 7:26 PM What is this woman like? 7:26 PM Vonice 7:26 PM she's a groupie tichure 7:26 PM How do you know that Vonice 7:27 PM "she likes the boys in the band" tichure 7:27 PM NOW you're talking specifics that's clear 7:27 PM that's obvious 7:27 PM what is the nature of a groupie? 7:27 PM Vonice 7:27 PM follows musicians around... has sexual encounters with them tichure 7:27 PM exactly or they stay in town 7:27 PM like plaster casters 7:27 PM and they have encounters with the bands as they come through 7:27 PM if they follow the same band around, you'd almost call them girlfriends 7:28 PM are these women exclusive to any ticker man? 7:28 PM To any particular man? 7:28 PM Sigh 7:28 PM Vonice 7:28 PM not particularly tichure 7:28 PM is this socially something hahahaah 7:28 PM it is this socially something that would be acceptable to one's parents if you were to bring this person home to see them as your date or girlfriend 7:28 PM Vonice 7:28 PM yes, it's a stereotype tichure 7:28 PM or possible lifemate? I'm not sure you're answering my question 7:28 PM . 7:28 PM Vonice 7:28 PM no.... for your question 7:29 PM tichure 7:29 PM I'm asking you if this was somebody you would bring home to your parents? Okay 7:29 PM besides the fact she's a groupie and she's having sex with more than one person 7:29 PM generally 7:29 PM what other specific details does he offer 7:29 PM that might indicate that she is somehow 7:29 PM kinky 7:29 PM or freaky 7:29 PM as the song dictates 7:29 PM and as part of this 7:29 PM in the back of your head what I'm asking you is the following: 7:29 PM how would a feminist respond to this portrayal of women? 7:29 PM Because that's what a feminist criticism cares about 7:29 PM Vonice 7:30 PM that this woman is being stereotyyped in the lyrics tichure 7:31 PM stereotype is what her value as what 7:31 PM her worth is what 7:31 PM Vonice 7:31 PM her worth as a woman, and not a sex-slave tichure 7:31 PM stopped stop 7:31 PM what you are doing in your analysis is going to be to explain how a feminist would translate the lyrics 7:32 PM is a feminist going to say that the woman portrayed here is a woman or is she going to say she's being portrayed as a sex slave? 7:32 PM Vonice 7:32 PM no... that young women are being fed drugs to have sex with rich musicians 7:33 PM :'( 7:34 PM tichure 7:34 PM Vonice, where are drugs mentioned in the song where are drugs mentioned in the song 7:34 PM Vonice 7:34 PM okay... tichure 7:35 PM I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm not saying it's not part of the culture. 7:35 PM I am asking you to show me where it's in the song because of it's not, you cannot include that aspect of it. 7:35 PM Also, if you find a resource that discusses the life of a groupie, I think you're going to be a little disappointed in their story because essentially they're going to say that the life they lead was not one of slavery 7:35 PM but rather one of opportunity 7:35 PM and one in which they got to have a great deal of fun 7:35 PM and a great number of experiences that other people do not have. 7:35 PM There are several biographies of groupies 7:35 PM that you would use and you can certainly do a cultural response from one of them for paper like this. 7:36 PM And more broadly, you are imbuing into their experience something that they themselves do not believe. 7:36 PM However 7:36 PM how a feminist would respond to this is a different kettle of fish 7:36 PM and your feminist response would look at this and say well according to the story, these women are seen as 7:36 PM sex objects 7:36 PM and that is their value to the speaker. 7:36 PM And they would go from there 7:36 PM but you can't throw in stuff that's not in the song. 7:36 PM In fact, Would a feminist need the drug reference in order to find the song to be objectionable? 7:37 PM Vonice 7:37 PM no tichure 7:37 PM or is the treatment of women in the general way enough to make the song objectionable feminist criticism for work like this is an excellent choice. The work itself has a very specific view of women‚Ķ a very popular view of women‚Ķ that are the crux of especially second wave feminist criticism. 7:38 PM However, you can't let the argument get away from you by overstating the point. 7:38 PM And since there is no mention of drugs in the work‚Ķ other than alcohol‚Ķ you have to stay within the context that this has to do with sexual behaviors. 7:38 PM However, the only sexual behavior that you've mentioned in the song so far has to do with the fact that she has multiple partners. 7:38 PM There are other details in the song that might lend itself to more elaboration. 7:39 PM If you give me the candlelight and the wine and the music saying, that sounds almost like a traditional romantic date. 7:39 PM So are looking for stuff that indicts the work from a feminist perspective 7:39 PM which also would work in some ways from a conservative religious perspective as well. 7:39 PM Besides dating different guys in the band, what else does James's lyric say about her behavior and attitudes? 7:39 PM Vonice 7:40 PM The title in itself, "Super Freak" and the repitition 7:40 PM tichure 7:41 PM If a person from another country did not know what the word FREAK means, that would not explain anything to them. It has to do with the other descriptions that he has that explains what he means by FREAK and KINKY 7:41 PM Vonice 7:41 PM Freak could be a wierd person... tichure 7:41 PM Yeah but were looking for what defines weird as explained in the song. That's what I'm getting to. 7:41 PM Where does he find her? 7:41 PM - Jose joined the Main Room. ( 7:43 PM ) - Vonice 7:42 PM "...Once you get her off the street" tichure 7:42 PM Hello Jose. We are discussing paper one. Were discussing superfreak WriteNow. 7:42 PM What does that tell us Vonice 7:42 PM Jose 7:42 PM Hello tichure 7:42 PM what is he implying about her lifestyle 7:42 PM perhaps even 7:42 PM her application 7:42 PM Vonice 7:42 PM she may be a call girl or prostitute tichure 7:42 PM per avocation very good 7:42 PM now you have more 7:42 PM information 7:42 PM what else does he say about her behavior 7:42 PM he mentioned something about a crowd 7:42 PM what is the reference? 7:43 PM Vonice 7:44 PM multiple partner sex... "three is not a crowd..." tichure 7:44 PM Very good now we have 7:44 PM serial dating 7:44 PM group sex 7:44 PM the possibility that she may be a prostitute 7:44 PM now you have multiple elements 7:44 PM that are supported by 7:44 PM kinky 7:44 PM and freak 7:44 PM and vice versa. 7:44 PM You see how that works 7:44 PM ? 7:44 PM Vonice 7:44 PM I see tichure 7:45 PM it is those specific details that a need in order for you to translate what the word FREAK means. Otherwise, to some people, if she dressed all in black and wore black Lipstick, that she might be considered a freak. 7:45 PM if she was really religious she might be considered a freak. 7:45 PM It's all context 7:45 PM in this case, it has to do with her sexual behavior. 7:45 PM Is this a song that says anything about her value other than her sexuality? 7:45 PM Vonice 7:46 PM she's not expensive tichure 7:46 PM hahahah does it talk about her intelligence? 7:47 PM Does it talk about her personality? 7:47 PM Does it talk about her strength? 7:47 PM Does it talk about her business capabilities? 7:47 PM Vonice 7:47 PM no tichure 7:47 PM How does the Second wave feminists feel about portrayal of a woman in which her only attribute of importance is her sexuality? like or dislike 7:47 PM approve or disapprove 7:47 PM Vonice 7:47 PM dislike/disapprove the speaker never gives her a name 7:48 PM she's basically referred to as a thing 7:48 PM tichure 7:48 PM very good Vonice 7:48 PM a "freak" tichure 7:48 PM hahaha Vonice 7:48 PM a "girl" tichure 7:48 PM indeed in fact, are you familiar with the various 7:49 PM waves of feminism? 7:49 PM And this is a question to all of you 7:49 PM Vonice 7:49 PM somewhat... I need to go over them for this paper tichure 7:49 PM because when you identify feminist criticism, you have to identify which particular wave you are applying thanks for asking Vonice. 7:49 PM First wave feminism was at the turn of the twentieth century. This is the early 1900s in which women were fighting for suffrage‚Ķ the right to vote. 7:49 PM Their primary focus was the right to vote. 7:49 PM Second wave feminists occurred from the 1960s through the late 1970s. Second wave feminist theory was mostly focused on the D sexualization of women and the opportunities for women in the workplace and in the educational system, breaking free of the narrow bonds of marriage, domesticity and sexual second-class citizenship 7:50 PM third wave feminism occurred from the 1990s to now. Unlike second wave feminism, third wave feminism embraces sexuality and sees it not as a means by which women are subjugated, but rather a means by which women can control their own destiny. 7:51 PM As an example, second wave feminism would've deplored pornography and prostitution as male-dominated enslavement of women and the object ification of women for the pleasure of man 7:51 PM third wave feminism will look at pornography and prostitution, and if the woman chooses to do so, they will support her right to use her body in any way that she sees fit. Thus we have the emphasis on terms like ‚Äúsex worker‚Äù as opposed to prostitute in that particular context. 7:52 PM You will see that the feminist of today might be a highly sexualized person who uses her sexuality to gain money, fame and attention and at the same time claims that her body is still her own and she has any right to do with it what she wants.. 7:52 PM When you translate this word from a feminist criticism, if you're going to say that feminists would not like what's going on, you're probably associating it with second wave feminism. 7:52 PM However, a third wave feminist might look at this from the girl's point of view in figure that this is her opportunity to have fun with famous people and to engage in sexual behavior that she finds personally fulfilling and pleasing. 7:53 PM And since there's no indication the song, Vonice, that this person is a slave of any kind but rather she's doing is of her own volition, there would be a distinct difference between a second and third wave feminist translation. 7:53 PM Any questions about feminist criticism 7:54 PM Vonice 7:54 PM which will help me, because I disagree... which doesn't matter in critical writing tichure 7:54 PM that is correct hahahaha 7:55 PM and you nailed it right on the head. 7:55 PM I don't what your personal opinion. I want you to appropriately and accurately apply the critical perspective which ever one you choose. 7:55 PM Vonice 7:55 PM okay Jose 7:55 PM Can we choose the type of criticism? tichure 7:56 PM And more poorly, you cannot change or imbue into a song or any other work what is not there. While it may be true that from a Hollywood drug scene perspective, which really focused on the recreational drugs of alcohol, cocaine in speed and uppers downers‚Ķ very often over-the-counter chemicals more than street drugs like heroin or LSD things like that‚Ķ the notion that this might be about cocaine is ONE translation. However, once you move to different translation, the stories no longer about cocaine. It's back to square one and since he keeps mentioning GIRL it's about a girl. Jose you must choose three critical perspectives from the list that I gave you 7:56 PM Anna, tell me your lyric and current perspectives again 7:56 PM Jose, we can go through yours after we talk to Anna. 7:56 PM Anna 7:57 PM mine is Big yellow Taxi tichure 7:58 PM Critical perspectives Vonice, jose, if you want to follow along with this conversation, you can find the lyrics online pretty easily. There's also a video which is pretty bad. 7:58 PM ahhaahah 7:58 PM Please do not use that as any indication of the song. 7:58 PM Which critical perspectives Anna 7:58 PM Anna 7:58 PM im doin biographical on Mitchell, historical tichure 7:58 PM is historical and you asked me a question 7:58 PM about 7:58 PM author intent 7:59 PM is that correct? 7:59 PM Anna 8:00 PM if an environmentlist view can be considered cultural? tichure 8:00 PM yes it is but I'm asking this 8:00 PM are you focusing on how when environmentalists would translate this or are you claiming that this is an environmentalist song? 8:00 PM Anna 8:01 PM claiming that it is an environemental song tichure 8:01 PM Here's the deal and all of you will need to know this one 8:01 PM Marxist criticism is a critical perspective that essentially focuses on the AUTHOR'S INTENT, MESSAGE and AUDIENCE 8:01 PM and in doing so, you are the writer will identify the author's point. 8:01 PM People screw this up when they start discussing a biographical criticism and they start using phrases like ‚Äúwhat the author meant to say was‚Ķ‚Äù and ‚Äúthe authors message is‚Ķ‚Äù 8:02 PM these are not biographical criticisms. 8:02 PM These are Marxist criticisms. 8:02 PM They're focusing on MESSAGE 8:02 PM . 8:02 PM A Marxist criticism applied to a work finds interviews and other information that indicates why the author wrote the work in first place and the message that the work is supposed to impart. 8:02 PM This is not biographical information. 8:02 PM This is the author's mindset and intention. 8:02 PM As part of that, if the audience that they're trying to reach 8:02 PM is one that would tend to agree with them‚Ķ in this case environmentalists, they are PANDERING to that audience. 8:02 PM They are telling the audience what they want to hear. 8:03 PM They are providing the music that the audience wants to listen to. 8:03 PM They're using methodologies that appeal to the audience. 8:03 PM They are sending MESSAGE that appeals to the audience. 8:04 PM When you watch a hip-hop video, what are the common sights that you see in that video? 8:04 PM Vonice 8:04 PM cars, money, jewelry tichure 8:05 PM why Vonice 8:05 PM Vonice 8:05 PM because that's the message they want to deliver to their audience? tichure 8:05 PM That's true but is their audience fond of cars? 8:05 PM Is their audience fond of money? 8:05 PM Is their audience fond of jewelry? 8:05 PM Vonice 8:06 PM they want it because they see their "idols" with it... or, at least they think they do tichure 8:06 PM Does the audience also like the posturing? Does the audience like the political attitudes that are being presented? Vonice 8:07 PM their main audience is youth's from poor urban neighborhoods tichure 8:08 PM And does that audience tend to agree with what's being presented to them in the videos? Vonice 8:08 PM *youths they think it's better than where they are 8:08 PM or what they have 8:08 PM tichure 8:08 PM Well you're missing my point Vonice. I'm asking a very simple question 8:08 PM Anna 8:08 PM they yearn to be like those in the videos tichure 8:09 PM you're both correct but I'm asking very simple question. 8:09 PM Does the maker of the video cater to the likes of the audience? 8:09 PM Vonice 8:10 PM the make would want to, if the maker wants a profit tichure 8:10 PM It's that simple Vonice 8:10 PM maker tichure 8:10 PM PANDERING is the identification of the work as being intended for a specific audience on the other hand, PROPAGANDIZING is the approach in which an author is speaking to an audience that is either unaware of or RESISTANT to a particular message. 8:11 PM As part of your analysis, you would identify a which one of these approaches the author is taking. 8:11 PM Anna 8:11 PM So, in the song, Mitchell could be pandering to the environmentalist. At the same time, she could be making an appeal to those who destroy the environment tichure 8:11 PM Anna, to whom would big yellow taxi be pandering Vonice 8:11 PM I have a question tichure 8:11 PM ? Very good 8:11 PM you answered my question before I asked it. 8:12 PM Go ahead Vonice 8:12 PM Vonice 8:12 PM Why does the speaker only make mention of the "Big Yellow Taxi" once? tichure 8:12 PM Anna, do you want to answer that? Anna 8:13 PM Ive been reading on it but I couldn't find its meaning either =( tichure 8:13 PM hahahaahh the big yellow taxi is mentioned in the only paragraph it's not about the environment. 8:13 PM Vonice 8:13 PM right tichure 8:14 PM What is the thing that consistently runs through the vignettes in the song? Anna 8:14 PM It's about losing something important to you tichure 8:14 PM Very good Anna why big yellow taxi 8:14 PM Anna 8:14 PM somehting that you always seem to take for granted tichure 8:15 PM that is correct anna why a big yellow taxi 8:15 PM what does it represent? 8:15 PM Anna 8:15 PM someone is leaving? Vonice 8:15 PM Is it the proverbial elephant? tichure 8:16 PM Yes Anna‚Ķ but something else I'm not sure what you mean Vonice 8:16 PM Vonice 8:17 PM like, the "elephant in the room" nevermind... my mind goes places 8:17 PM lol 8:17 PM tichure 8:17 PM I understand it gets back to a question I have though 8:17 PM now that we know that this definitely panders to environmentalists and propagandize those who are not 8:17 PM from a Marxist perspective. 8:17 PM Anna, 8:17 PM how is this biographical? 8:17 PM Anna 8:18 PM Mitchell was a known advocate for the environment tichure 8:18 PM That's not biographical that's Marxist 8:18 PM she's not talking about herself 8:18 PM she's talking about her belief system 8:18 PM she tried to get people to do something 8:18 PM or not do something 8:18 PM but she's not talking about her own personal experience 8:18 PM in the environmental aspect anyway 8:18 PM you see how that works 8:18 PM Anna 8:19 PM I think I read about her writing the song when she was in hawaii, and she saw this view from the hotel tichure 8:20 PM that is biographical she even says I 8:20 PM in that section 8:20 PM the farmer farmer part 8:20 PM Marxist 8:20 PM the pink hotel and the swinging hotspot 8:21 PM is partly biographical 8:21 PM . What is the tree museum? 8:21 PM Anna 8:21 PM It is a botanical museum in hawaii tichure 8:21 PM When you discuss the details of some THING that actually is or has happened, that is HISTORICAL criticism. That is correct. 8:21 PM She is describing something that actually happened. 8:21 PM What is DDT? 8:21 PM Anna 8:22 PM It is a fertilizer that was banned by the EPA in 1972 tichure 8:22 PM It's not a fertilizer. Insecticide 8:23 PM what did it do that made it illegal? 8:23 PM Anna 8:23 PM oh yeah , sorry, my bad tichure 8:23 PM hahahaha what did it do to make it illegal? 8:23 PM Anna 8:23 PM it has side effects to the human body tichure 8:24 PM Actually, look at the lyrics for clues 8:24 PM and then you have a secondary source for support 8:24 PM according to the song 8:24 PM what does DDT effect? 8:24 PM Anna 8:24 PM health risks and environmental risks poisonous to birds and bees 8:25 PM tichure 8:25 PM Yes . 8:25 PM It kills insects 8:25 PM however, it stays in the insects and it runs off into the rivers. 8:25 PM The fish ingested. 8:25 PM Birds eat both fish and insects. 8:25 PM DVT causes lack of calcium 8:25 PM in eggs. 8:25 PM Birds were laying eggs and the eggs would break open. 8:25 PM Basically, 8:25 PM DDT was killing birds not humans. 8:26 PM It says so 8:26 PM in the song 8:26 PM . 8:26 PM This is where historical information must be accurate 8:26 PM because it has to do with whether or not the song is accurate 8:26 PM and this information that were discussing is HISTORICAL criticism 8:26 PM although it could also be used for part of a Marxist analysis in terms of how the author is trying to get her point across. 8:26 PM Which brings me back to biographical criticism 8:26 PM how does the last stanza of this song relate to the rest of the song 8:27 PM ? 8:27 PM Is it environmental? 8:27 PM Anna 8:27 PM no she's losing her father 8:27 PM tichure 8:28 PM Are you sure what does the phrase ‚Äúmy old man‚Äù refer to 8:28 PM in the 1970s 8:28 PM Anna 8:28 PM to the Big yellow taxi tichure 8:28 PM which By the Way, Vonice you're probably in that wheelhouse right now with your research as well 8:28 PM Vonice 8:28 PM pretty much tichure 8:28 PM Anna who is “my old man ‚” 8:28 PM in the 1970s 8:28 PM Anna 8:29 PM sorry, i don't know =( 8:29 PM Vonice 8:29 PM I'm 40-something, so I know lol 8:29 PM Her boyfriend 8:30 PM tichure 8:30 PM very good Vonice Anna, you must be able to translate the language of the era 8:30 PM she's not losing her dad. She's losing her boyfriend/husband/significant other 8:30 PM the dude she's been living with 8:30 PM Anna, what do you know about her personal life with men? 8:31 PM Anna 8:32 PM Sorry, I didn't encounter data on that I need to research mroe 8:32 PM more 8:32 PM tichure 8:32 PM if you're going to say this is biographical, I would suggest you look into it. If she has been with the same man since the 1960s, will that paragraph apply to her? 8:32 PM Anna 8:32 PM ok tichure 8:32 PM If she has gone from relationship to relationship and is famously a woman who has never been able to settle down with the same man, will the paragraph apply to her Anna 8:33 PM no tichure 8:34 PM read carefully the stanza 8:34 PM If she goes from relationship to relationship and has never been able to settle down with the same man, is this paragraph applicable to her? 8:35 PM Has this person experienced somebody leaving? 8:36 PM If so, 8:36 PM then you would apply biographical criticism to this as well. 8:36 PM Anna 8:36 PM oh ok. yes, because the taxi symbolizes? that he's always leaving tichure 8:36 PM Anna, do not confuse biographical and Marxist criticisms. These are two different approaches. One is objective analysis which essentially says the work is a literal depiction of the author's own experience, and the other one focuses on the author's MESSAGE to a particular audience. Yes 8:37 PM you are dead on correct 8:37 PM any other questions about yours Anna 8:37 PM - Jose left the Main Room. ( 8:38 PM ) - tichure 8:37 PM because I know Jose would love to ask questions about his paper ahhhh 8:37 PM HHHHAHAHAHAH 8:37 PM timing is everything 8:37 PM Vonice 8:37 PM lol - ashley joined the Main Room. ( 8:39 PM ) - - Jose joined the Main Room. ( 8:39 PM ) - tichure 8:37 PM Jose, what is the topic of your first paper ash, we are discussing first paper 8:38 PM your next after Jose, 8:38 PM ashley 8:38 PM okay! tichure 8:38 PM Jose, what is the topic of your first paper‚Ķ what work? Jose 8:38 PM Ice Cube today was a good day tichure 8:39 PM Critical perspectives Jose 8:39 PM Biographical criticism tichure 8:39 PM please don't say biographical whatever you do 8:39 PM oh 8:39 PM (eye)(eye) 8:39 PM Let's have a conversation 8:39 PM Jose 8:39 PM too late tichure 8:39 PM hahahaha everybody does this Jose and luckily this semester it's you 8:39 PM biographical criticism is a critical perspective that says a work is in LITERAL depiction of the authors PERSONAL experience. 8:40 PM Was ice cube ever in a gang 8:40 PM Was ice cube ever arrested or shot at? 8:40 PM Jose 8:40 PM No that was my next question tichure 8:40 PM Was ice cube being hit on by some girl named Kim? Jose 8:40 PM How to you write a biographical essay of someone who has never experienced the issues he speaks about tichure 8:40 PM You don't Jose that's my point 8:40 PM you cannot. 8:41 PM Biographical criticism is not applicable if the work is not about the author and this is NOT about the author. 8:41 PM Which means you must use three different critical perspectives 8:41 PM Is cube accurately depicting life in south-central Los Angeles? in terms of its cultural values, fun things to do, focus on sports and gambling, focus on sexual behavior and drug use‚Ķ? 8:41 PM Jose 8:42 PM In that case qould cultural be more appropriate tichure 8:42 PM Jose, a cultural perspective is one in which one discusses how the work is going to be translated by a particular culture. Which particular culture are you going to use to translate this work? 8:42 PM - Jose left the Main Room. ( 8:45 PM ) - tichure 8:43 PM ashley‚Ķ what is your first paper on? - Jose joined the Main Room. ( 8:45 PM ) - tichure 8:43 PM Welcome back Jose 8:43 PM ashley 8:44 PM paradise gone wrong (coolio's Gangstas paradise)I am writing on how we become what we are trying to avoid, how to change the cycle, and how we live with our choices. is that on the right page? Jose 8:44 PM Young men tichure 8:44 PM which culture Perspective would you use to translate this particular work? no it's not ash 8:44 PM which particular young man Jose 8:44 PM is the upper class white kid in Glendora going to translate face the same way as the kids struggling in south-central LA 8:44 PM ashley, what you're writing is an editorial 8:44 PM and I don't want an editorial. 8:44 PM If you think that the poem is about those things, 8:45 PM Jose 8:45 PM No tichure 8:45 PM that's different ashley 8:45 PM oh crap tichure 8:45 PM and what you would have to do is apply a Marxist criticism in which you explain that that is the AUTHORS message through his work and for secondary source material, you need essays and interviews with that author that support 8:45 PM the claim that that's what he's trying to say 8:45 PM Marxist criticism focuses on the AUTHORS MESSAGE, AUDIENCE and METHOD. 8:45 PM And I will tell you right now is running at a time, Ash, this song is not biographical either 8:45 PM ashley 8:46 PM oh okay! I am going to have to rethink this tichure 8:46 PM while Coolio did some time as a baby crib selling drugs here and there, like ice cube, he was much more studious and actually avoided the gain issue deal and wrote about what was going on around him well I want to talk to both of you 8:46 PM Jose and ashley 8:46 PM because what I'm going to tell you applies to both of you 8:46 PM I'm sure you can write this down. 8:46 PM Obviously, biographical criticism is out. 8:46 PM However, the question I ask you is whether or not your author is accurately depicting what's going on at the time. 8:46 PM Jose 8:47 PM yes ashley 8:47 PM i think he is tichure 8:47 PM Historical criticism is a critical perspective that looks at what is depicted in the work and explains the references made by the author. This is statistical information that you will find in newspapers, magazine articles and other resources, including FBI and police files that discuss crime 8:47 PM drug use 8:47 PM violence 8:48 PM both black on black violence 8:48 PM gang violence 8:48 PM police violence 8:48 PM such as racial profiling 8:48 PM it will also discuss certain things‚Ķ Jose, your song discusses the Lakers beating the supersonics 8:48 PM what you need to find out is whether or not the Lakers were a good team back at that time 8:48 PM and you'll find out they were not 8:48 PM you will also find out that the supersonics were indeed the number one team 8:48 PM and so for the Lakers to win over that team would've been an unnaturally good day. 8:48 PM In The Same Way, ashley, you're looking at the elements in which he talks about the effect of media on his society 8:48 PM got been chasing dreams 8:48 PM and you would talk about the advance and the rise of music television 8:49 PM which is also mentioned Jose in your 8:49 PM song 8:49 PM yo MTV raps 8:49 PM which you would explain 8:49 PM and identify 8:49 PM you explain the bull 8:49 PM and the chronic 8:49 PM and Dominoes 8:49 PM not the pizza 8:49 PM you would go through this work and identify other elements 8:50 PM ash, your poem 8:50 PM asked the question 8:50 PM will I live another twenty-four 8:50 PM which oddly enough 8:50 PM is also mentioned 8:50 PM in Jose's song 8:50 PM you need to find out the life expectancy for a young African-American male in south-central Los Angeles at the time 8:50 PM which happens to be the same environment for both of these songs 8:50 PM and now what you're doing with this historical criticism is you are explaining the references that the characters make in their particular work. 8:51 PM It's not about the author 8:51 PM ashley 8:51 PM wouldn't we also explore how peole are "to blind to see" I took that as they are hurting themselves people 8:51 PM tichure 8:51 PM it's the fact that the author is explaining the realities of life. Well ash, to make that point you would probably focus on the fact that the vast majority of murders that occur in that area are black on black violence 8:51 PM rather than white on black violence 8:51 PM in other words, 8:51 PM it is intracultural violence that is the problem which of course is what Coolio's talking about 8:52 PM also, it has to do with life choice 8:52 PM drug use 8:52 PM joining gangs 8:52 PM out of wedlock children 8:52 PM in which people make decisions 8:52 PM that are hurting themselves 8:52 PM Jose 8:53 PM Facts with what the song is specifically referring to? tichure 8:53 PM yes understand that your song is ironic and is telling story in the reversal 8:53 PM by explaining this unbelievable day in which no one gets shot and no one gets hurt and everything works out, he is explaining what alive in that society is really like. 8:53 PM Life in that society is really like. 8:53 PM Sigh 8:53 PM are you both with me so far on the historical? 8:53 PM Jose 8:54 PM Yes ashley 8:54 PM okay I can work with this! So i need to find out the life expectancy of young black men in the 90's and the ratio of black on black crimes as well as gangs yes 8:54 PM tichure 8:54 PM Because those are mentioned in your song ashy yes secondly 8:54 PM does the author have a specific message about living in south-central Los Angeles 8:54 PM ashley 8:55 PM yes he does. tichure 8:55 PM does this author have a specific MESSAGE about living in south-central Los Angeles? Yes 8:55 PM this is MARXIST criticism. 8:55 PM Marxist criticism, as described earlier, is an analysis of the authors MESSAGE to a particular AUDIENCE. 8:55 PM As part of that, you explain how the author is trying to get a point across but you need secondary source material in which the author explains his view on either racism or racial profiling or gang violence or black on black violence or what ever that is mentioned in your song 8:55 PM are you with me so far 8:56 PM ashley 8:56 PM yes tichure 8:56 PM finally, is there a particular group of people who would like your song specifically? Jose, you already answered this but I would have you answer again more specifically 8:56 PM who would understand what the author is saying and agree with his assessment? 8:56 PM Jose 8:57 PM Young african americans living in tough los angeles neighborhoods ashley 8:57 PM this would go back to the men and women living in south central. They would understand tichure 8:57 PM Very good Jose yes very good actually 8:57 PM what would you use 8:57 PM ashley 8:57 PM as a secondary source 8:57 PM to support the analysis from that perspective 8:57 PM ashley 8:58 PM I don't know! tichure 8:58 PM what you're going to be looking for our interviews, stories and narratives written by people who live in south-central Los Angeles. Many of these are body part of the historical information that you find in which people are analyzing what goes on in south-central and what the problems are. 8:59 PM ashley 8:59 PM biographies? tichure 8:59 PM Political writers African-American activists 8:59 PM know. 8:59 PM negative 8:59 PM no 8:59 PM these are going to be assays 8:59 PM editorials 8:59 PM articles written in newspapers 8:59 PM and magazines 8:59 PM in which they discuss the PROBLEMS in south-central including its CAUSES 8:59 PM ashley 8:59 PM okay tichure 8:59 PM and its EFFECTS when you get into Ebscohost, make sure that you are available for all the databases including newspapers and magazines and the like 8:59 PM ashley 9:00 PM I think I got it now! tichure 9:00 PM I will be here next week on Wednesday to discuss developments in your papers for all of you also, I will suggest very strongly that you try a sample paragraph as an RESPONSE 9:00 PM to get some feedback from me in terms of how your essay is coming along in terms of use of quotation and the terminology 9:01 PM that's what responses are for 9:01 PM Vonice 9:01 PM that's due tomorrow, right? tichure 9:01 PM any questions sadly, Vonice yes 9:01 PM Anna 9:01 PM ok. professor, i have a ques. Are we on week 2 or week 3 in the calendar? tichure 9:01 PM I was kind of hoping that people would've written more by now but week 2 give or take Anna 9:01 PM the first week was only two days 9:01 PM ashley 9:01 PM okay will do tichure 9:01 PM good Lord, look at the time Vonice 9:01 PM Thank you, Prof. Eiland... ashley 9:01 PM i am off. thanks for the information Vonice 9:02 PM Good night, everyone. Jose 9:02 PM Thank You ashley 9:02 PM wish me luck!! tichure 9:02 PM you're welcome Vonice you're welcome ashley 9:02 PM you're welcome Jose 9:02 PM break a leg ashley 9:02 PM Anna 9:02 PM oh ok. thanks Professor. Thanks everyone tichure 9:02 PM have a good week everybody - ashley left the Main Room. ( 9:04 PM ) - tichure 9:02 PM you're welcome Anna poof 9:02 PM - Jose left the Main Room. ( 9:04 PM ) - - Vonice left the Main Room. ( 9:04 PM ) - - Anna left the Main Room. ( 9:04 PM ) -