19:16:36 From tichure : if you can’t figure the audio, you can type here 19:16:39 From Vinay : Hello Professor Eiland, is it alright if I communicate through the chat here 19:16:44 From tichure : sure 19:16:59 From Vinay : thanks 19:17:01 From tichure : How can I help you 19:17:03 From iPhone : Hello! 19:17:14 From tichure : hey now iPhone. 19:18:14 From tichure : If you have any questions or issues, just start off. I’ll respond to you by addressing you directly so you know Who I am answering 19:19:03 From Vinay : In historical perpspective is the aim to specify the events and actions as they relate to that time, or are we to include the relevance today as well? 19:19:29 From Vinay : Thank you 19:19:29 From tichure : only at the time that the work is either created or the time that it alludes to. 19:19:57 From tichure : To discuss current relevance is a different translation. That’s the nature of new historical criticism as well as a cultural perspective from the current era. The rules and values have changed, especially when it comes to both legal and the social rights for women and people of color in this country 19:20:29 From tichure : that means something written by Lady Mary Chudleigh at the end of the 17th century may resonate with current feminists, but the reality is that much of what she says is not legally true anymore although it was at the time that she wrote it. 19:21:01 From tichure : What you could do is find another era or another culture which would need different from that depicted in the work and show how they would agree or disagree with the work. For example, somebody did an analysis in which they translated the “to the ladies” from the perspective of the 1950s American housewife. Much of what is depicted in the poem is, indeed, true. 19:21:11 From tichure : However, what you also need to understand is that there is a fundamental difference between historical criticism and a cultural response. 19:21:20 From tichure : Historical criticism simply establishes what was going on as reflected in the work. 19:21:24 From Vinay : I see 19:21:33 From tichure : Cultural criticism, like feminist criticism, androcentric criticism and reader response criticism’s, require an actual RESPONSE to the work 19:21:38 From tichure : they would respond to elements. 19:21:48 From tichure : to 2 elements 19:21:56 From tichure : the first is whether they agree that what is portrayed actually happens or happened. 19:22:02 From tichure : The second is whether or not they agree with the authors editorial 19:22:05 From tichure : for example 19:22: 20 From tichure : both of you quickly look at “to the ladies” from the calendar. It’s quite short 19:22:28 From tichure : if you’re already familiar with it just let me know 19:23:46 From tichure : historical criticism of this particular work would use the laws of the time, specifically something called coverture, which gave very specific rights to the husband and actually stripped women of what rights they had when they were single. Given that women in Britain as well as much of Western Europe were also married under the laws of the church, much of what Lady Mary says is technically and historically true in terms of his power over her and her responsibility to him 19:23:55 From tichure : that’s what historical critical perspective would say 19:24:49 From tichure : your evidence would simply be information from the time that explains what legal power the man would have over his wife and what the situation would be for LADIES. These are not just regular women. These are people who are of high social status. That’s why there is no mention of raising children or doing housework. They have servants to do that. That’s why the first line tells us that this woman of high social class is no better than servant. That’s because the author knows exactly how that would resonate with her core audience, which are all upper-class women 19:25:10 From tichure : historical criticism would simply validate that what she says is true 19:25:21 From tichure : are you with me so far? 19:25:26 From iPhone : yes 19:25:33 From Vinay : Oh, I was not able to understand that she is well to do from the initial reading 19:25:41 From Vinay : would it be something that reasearch supports 19:25:44 From Vinay : oh 19:25:54 From Vinay : Ok, thank you 19:26:07 From tichure : That’s why it says to the LADIES. This is a label like baon, Viscount, Prince etc. 19:26:10 From tichure : baron 19:26:12 From tichure : yes 19:26:36 From tichure : cultural criticism would incorporate that first element. People of that time as well as people living in any environment in which men have almost complete control over women would agree that much of what she says is true 19:27:04 From tichure : your research would be essays and articles written by that particular cultural group, whether it is feminists, religionists, people of a particular era or particular belief system 19:27:23 From tichure : they don’t necessarily respond to your form or your play or your movie or whatever. They simply express what their beliefs are. You use that information in order to explain how they would feel about the poem 19:27:34 From tichure : the second part of course is whether or not they agree with the authors opinion about all this. 19:28:04 From Vinay : to value themselves instead of through their family? 19:28:56 From tichure : whatWhat does last Mary tell women to do? 19:29:09 From tichure : by doing what Vinay? 19:29:18 From Vinay : oops 19:29:20 From tichure : Or by not doing what? 19:29:29 From Vinay : You must be proud 19:29:31 From tichure : What did she tell the ladies to do or not do at the end of the poem? 19:29:41 From tichure : You’re giving me the actual words. I need you to translate it into plain English 19:29:46 From tichure : what is her MESSAGE to her reader 19:29:54 From tichure : is she happy with the way things are or is she unhappy with the way things are? 19:30:27 From tichure : Vinay, Give me the entire line, not just the “you must be proud” 19:31:14 From iPhone : Value your selves, and men despise, You must be proud, if you’ll be wise. 19:31:17 From Vinay : "You must be proud if you'll be wise". She is unhappy with the way things are, and i think that she is telling her audience to become educated. I think im missing her point though 19:31:24 From tichure : you are 19:31:32 From tichure : what's the 19:31:39 From tichure : next line after that 19:32:02 From tichure : if she is saying “men despise” what are women being told to do or to avoid? 19:32:30 From tichure : According to what she has just given you in the poem, what puts women in this position of servitude? 19:32:35 From tichure : What makes women slaves? 19:32:55 From Vinay : the obligations of marriage at the time? 19:32:58 From tichure : Yes 19:33:05 From tichure : therefore how do you avoid that 19:33:09 From Vinay : Don't get married 19:33:12 From Vinay : Wow 19:33:15 From tichure : that is it 19:33:41 From tichure : would conservative religions agree that women are obligated to obey their husbands? To make their husbands look good? 19:33:49 From iPhone : yes 19:33:52 From iPhone : absolutely 19:33:56 From tichure : Would conservative religions agree that marriage is of God? 19:34:06 From Vinay : Yes 19:34:24 From iPhone : yes 19:34:27 From tichure : so they would agree that what she says is status quo is true 19:34:32 From tichure : but the second part is this 19:34:44 From tichure : do they agree with her opinion about it and do they agree with her call to action for women to avoid marriage? 19:34:46 From iPhone : absolutely not 19:35:00 From tichure : That’s what a cultural or feminist or reader response or androcentric perspective requires. You have these two elements 19:35:14 From tichure : and they both focus on how that particular culture or feminists or androcentric believers or do you reader spots that you’ve chosen 19:35:15 From tichure : wind 19:35:16 From tichure : respond to the work 19:35:17 From tichure : on those two 19:35:20 From tichure : elements 19:35:34 From tichure : whereas historical simply establishes that what she’s saying is true because you have statistical information to back it up 19:35:41 From iPhone : correct 19:35:47 From tichure : cultural criticism, feminist criticism, androcentric criticism, and reader response criticisms are OPINIONS that respond to the work 19:36:30 From tichure : that is the fundamental difference between an objective analysis like historical or biographical criticism and opinion based-criticism like feminist or cultural etc. 19:36:59 From tichure : of course this is also the difference between something objective like historical criticism or biographical criticism and MARXIST criticism 19:37:27 From tichure : biographical criticism only applies if the work is literally autobiographical. It only establishes that what is Depicted actually happened to the author. 19:37:32 From tichure : that requires a real biography 19:38:09 From tichure : unfortunately, many people read something that’s in first person and they automatically assume it is autobiographical. • we have course is not true in all kinds of literature including not only just about every underground post story but also much of country-western music and hip-hop in which people create characters and speak from the first-person narrative all the time 19:38:43 From tichure : so they read “death of ball turret gunner” and assume that this is about the author. Research of course reveals that the author was not a gunner. He was a trainer. He saw what happened and he is editorializing about it. 19:39:39 From tichure : discussing what the author FEELS about something is MARXIST criticism whether the work is autobiographical or it is fictional it is usually about an issue in society and the author is expressing their OPINION. If the author is expressing that opinion and the focus of your essay is about the author’s opinion, whether it’s autobiographical or not, you are doing Marxist criticism 19:41:28 From tichure : so if we go back to our “to the ladies” poem, we realize that lady Mary was a woman who would be described in later times as a feminist (the term did not exist back then) and she was a person who, through a kindly male neighbor, was educated and was allowed to publish under a revolutionary queen by the name of an who wanted the voice of women in literature and the arts. It was a very short period of time. In any case, when we find out that the author is an early feminist and that she herself was also a LADY and that she was educated, we would find that her politics and her work are a reflection of one another. You would use that biographical information to explain her opinion which of course would then yield a Marxist racism on your part. You also use the historical information to explain why she feels that way and what conditions she was living under, as were all women at the time. 19:41:49 From tichure : hey there Ashley 19:41:59 From tichure : Do you have any questions 19:43:16 From tichure : Sure will most of it is is in text so the text things open you can just follow along and then if you have any questions or whatever you just asked me either verbally or type it in a right now are talking mostly about some of the work is already been submitted for the first response which would be to the ladies and death of a vulture gunner and that kinda stuff and just clarifying some of the issues primarily the difference between said biographical criticism and Marxist criticism or the difference between historical criticism and a cultural criticism you know the biographical and historical being verytas being more about the opinion of either you know some kind of group responding to it or the author him or herself 19:43:55 From tichure : well and it’s very common especially for the first assignment for people fall into one or the other women really doing more than one MS what a lot of people do ultimately if you end up talking about what the author intended the same with the other was trying to say even if you use historical and/or biographical information you are doing a Marxist criticism 20:00:05 From tichure : paper topic yet? 20:00:11 From iPhone : are we able to add to our annotated work cite if we come across something later? 20:00:21 From tichure : yes 20:00:49 From tichure : consider the annotated works cited a work in progress that’s really more about establishing that you have enough to get STARTED but you certainly are going to remove items from the list that you don’t need and you may add items as you move forward, especially when we get to critical perspectives that we haven’t covered yet 20:00:49 From iPhone : ok, thank you 20:01:26 From Vinay : I would like to know if I'm understanding the papers instructions as it relates to Pat Mora's La Migra. 1. Quoting the values of the Border patrol, and explaing the possible reaction of the Border Partol to the action of the Patrol Officer in part one. 2. Quoting the values of illegal immigrants and explaing their reaction to the mexican woman in part two. 3. Would it be in line with cultural criticism to explain possible reactions of The Border Patrol and Illegal Mexican Immigrant to the others acts? 20:01:32 From tichure : and of course once you have submitted your annotated works cited, I will have you take the annotations out instrument and strip it down toThe annotated work cited becomes your works cited when you take away the annotations and updated to reflect what’s actually in your paper. G 20:01:51 From tichure : Vinery, That would be two different responses g 20:02:04 From tichure : the response by the border patrol is one cultural or reader response response. Technically the cultural response 20:02:33 From tichure : they have a very specific belief about what they are doing and what their job is. They believe that they are not only protecting the border but they are also saving Mexican citizens from the environment which is quite hostile and also from the coyotes who often victimize them 20:02:47 From tichure : they agree that there have been charges against some bad officers but mostly they are not rapists and bullies 20:03:16 From tichure : the response from illegal immigrants is a different tele-fish. They have their own belief about what they’re trying to do and who and what the border patrol is. They have a certain level of pride in their culture enough to want to use it as a device to communicate without the border patrol’s knowledge g 20:03:30 From tichure : unfortunately for them, this is where we can some problems with the authors own perception and portrayal 20:03:49 From tichure : historical criticism will reveal that the patrol agents on the southern border not only work in papers or in larger groups, but also thinks Spanish which is not indicated in the poem 20:04:05 From tichure : but an excellent first paper would be a paragraph from the immigrant perspective and a different paragraph from the border patrol perspective 20:04:18 From tichure : they would definitely have differing views on whether or not they agree with Pat Mora 20:05:14 From tichure : and folks keep in mind that for that experience thing, such eggs the experience of crossing the border illegally, that is definitely a very specific group of people. You would not choose information from Mexican-Americans nor would you choose information from Mexican nationals who have not made the crossing. You have to find narratives from people who have actually been there and that is available on Ebscohost 20:06:05 From tichure : By the way another cultural response for that would be immigrants who actually went through the legal channels. There is a group of Mexican Americans who have a problem with illegal integration because they feel that those people are cheating the system that they themselves patiently and expensively went through 20:06:37 From tichure : iPhone, any idea as to what you would want to do for your paper? 20:07:17 From iPhone : I actually chose the yellow wallpaper so I found your previous discussion very helpful 20:07:30 From tichure : Excellent. Again keep in mind that you cannot do a biographical criticism for yellow wallpaper 20:08:35 From tichure : that’s because other than the fact that the author and the main characters suffer from “nervous hysteria” (postpartum depression was not a thing back then) the rest of the story is completely fictional. She was not married to a man named John, she was not married to a doctor, she was not shut up in a house somewhere in the country. She actually worked with Mitchell and was sent home to layabout and do nothing and she gave it up and began writing again. Discussing her experience which she discusses in “why I wrote the old wallpaper” is part of a MARXIST criticism not biographical. You use aluminum biography but it’s mostly about how that experience affected her writing of this fictional story 20:09:18 From tichure : also, when you find that she was a writer on other issues you will come across works that discuss her belief that women should not be obligated to raise children which of course is a subtext in the story. The reason Jane is considered to be “sick” because she wants nothing to do with her child. Gilman eventually sent her daughter to live with her husband and his new wife because she did not want to raise the girl. 20:10:56 From tichure : for all of your choices, historical criticism is simply going to explain the realities of the time. You do not need to mention the author at all other than to cite the primary source but you would be simply explained what’s going on that is reflected in the work, whether it is the expected roles for women and this nervous hysteria and the rest cure stuff for “yellow wallpaper” or it is the issue with illegal immigration at the Mexican border and the claims against the border patrol for “la Migra” 20:11:41 From tichure : or any questions about any other critical perspective even if we’ve already talked about it 20:12:01 From tichure : keep in mind that I’d rather answer your question three or four times here if it allows you to get to your work and get things done on time. We are doing 16 weeks in a six week course. So it’s going to go fast 20:13:14 From iPhone : are there more examples for these different critical perspectives available? 20:16:15 From tichure : iPhone, there is a discussion for each of the assigned works for the paper already on the chat archive in which we end up talking about the various critical perspectives and how they may apply 20:16:56 From tichure : i’m trying to think if there’s anything beyond the videos and the explanations I gave you but of course when you get into info at Ebscohost and Gale you will notice that there are obvious feminist criticisms, obvious psychoanalytical criticisms etc. that will be helpful for that for each of the individual works 20:17:14 From tichure : the other option of course is to simply talk about the works I need to read or that you might be doing your responses on because you can translate most of the stuff from multiple perspectives which is why it’s on the calendar. It helps you to practice 20:17:31 From tichure : so if you want to talk about one of the poems that was on the calendar, we could talk about that in run it through the various perspectives and how it would translate differently 20:17:46 From iPhone : how about “disabled” 20:17:54 From tichure : let’s talk about it 20:18:03 From tichure : what kind of information would you be looking for for HISTORICAL criticism? 20:18:16 From iPhone : the time of the war? 20:18:22 From tichure : Vinery, Ashley, you can jump in 20:18:25 From tichure : Which war 20:18:39 From tichure : Vinay, my AutoCorrect keeps changing your name 20:18:40 From iPhone : I’m not sure 20:18:41 From tichure : sorry about that 20:18:51 From tichure : when was it written Phone? 20:19:09 From Vinay : haha 20:19:18 From Vinay : i think ill change it V 20:19:20 From tichure : For every work you analyze, you should know who the author is and when it was written 20:19:24 From iPhone : early 1900 20:19:33 From Vinay : ok 20:19:44 From tichure : which 1900 20:19:51 From Ashley : 1917 20:20:02 From tichure : very good. What war is occurring around 1917 20:20:08 From Ashley : WW1 20:20:10 From tichure : that’s it 20:20:15 From iPhone : yes 20:20:19 From tichure : what was the nature of warfare in World War I? 20:20:34 From tichure : In other words, what kind weaponry were we using and what kind of injuries worse 20:20:34 From Vinay : trenche warfare? 20:20:42 From tichure : explain V i 20:20:52 From tichure : what is the nature of trench warfare? I 20:21:37 From Vinay : Nature of trench warfare is to establish a depression in the topology to protect from lateral fire of rifles? 20:21:47 From tichure : That sounds like you look it up in a dictionary 20:21:52 From tichure : explain what that means in common vernacular 20:22:15 From Vinay : digging into the ground to provide shelter from gunfire and bombs? 20:22:16 From iPhone : to hide 20:22:20 From tichure : yes 20:22:22 From tichure : yes 20:22:31 From tichure : and where is this war happening? 20:22:40 From tichure : How deep is the trench? 20:22:45 From tichure : What is in the trench? 20:23:07 From Ashley : For one, diseases 20:23:11 From tichure : Why Ashley 20:23:15 From tichure : what types of diseases and why 20:23:43 From Ashley : It was very soggy so they had rotting feet and things like that 20:23:47 From tichure : yes 20:23:59 From tichure : what happens to rotting feet 20:24:09 From Vinay : amputations 20:24:12 From tichure : yes 20:24:15 From Ashley : They need to be amputated.....possibly eventually 20:24:17 From tichure : yes 20:24:37 From tichure : in many early wars more people died from infection than they died from actually being hit by artillery 20:24:40 From Ashley : That makes sense 20:24:45 From tichure : certainly that was true in the Civil War and very true in the first world war 20:24:51 From tichure : we have very few means to fight off infection 20:24:56 From tichure : and of course not enough to go around 20:25:13 From tichure : where is the main character in this poem?where does he live and how do you know 20:25:32 From iPhone : England 20:25:35 From tichure : How do you know that 20:25:40 From iPhone : his biography 20:25:55 From tichure : no. that’s what the author lives. Where does the character ive 20:25:57 From tichure : live 20:26:11 From Ashley : Is it some sort of home...I thought he mentions waiting for a nurse to take him back inside? Near a park. I dont remember region/country 20:26:19 From tichure : look at the language 20:26:25 From tichure : to begin with, what was he before he went to war 20:26:26 From iPhone : football? 20:26:28 From tichure : what was his status in society 20:26:34 From iPhone : English 20:26:34 From tichure : what is football 20:26:40 From tichure : to everybody in all except for Americans 20:26:42 From Ashley : soccer 20:26:43 From Vinay : rugby 20:26:46 From tichure : yes 20:26:46 From Vinay : oops 20:26:49 From tichure : also possible 20:27:07 From tichure : what is the clothing he will be issued 20:27:10 From tichure : in the military 20:27:17 From tichure : according to the poem 20:27:28 From tichure : it’s one of the reasons why he went 20:27:36 From tichure : by the way what does a soccer player’s legs look like 20:27:38 From Vinay : jewelled hilts 20:27:45 From tichure : that’s the sword the ceremonial sword 20:27:48 From tichure : what else 20:28:00 From Vinay : soccer legs are very muscular 20:28:02 From Vinay : thick 20:28:04 From iPhone : muscular 20:28:04 From tichure : that is correc 20:28:14 From tichure : so it’s kind of clothing would accentuate those awesome sexy legs 20:28:17 From Vinay : oh, tight clothes 20:28:18 From Ashley : kilts 20:28:19 From tichure : what kind of clothing 20:28:21 From tichure : yes 20:28:26 From tichure : and what military wears kilts 20:28:35 From tichure : this is the highest level of British military service 20:28:45 From tichure : who was he fighting according to the poem? 20:29:10 From iPhone : Germany 20:29:25 From iPhone : Germans he scarcely thought of, all their guilt, 20:29:36 From Ashley : And Austria's, did not move him. 20:29:37 From tichure : ho who you know 20:29:40 From tichure : good 20:29:45 From tichure : and who started World War I 20:30:00 From iPhone : Germany 20:30:01 From tichure : ach du lieber 20:30:26 From tichure : what kind of work did most men do in order to survive back in the early 1900s? 20:30:30 From tichure : What would be required k 20:30:59 From tichure : And therefore, what was the status of a person, a man specifically, who was an amputee of any type? 20:31:17 From Ashley : I would think factory work or manual labor...so useless basically 20:31:18 From Vinay : manual labor, (agriculture, industrial)? 20:31:24 From tichure : You are both correct 20:31:28 From tichure : that is correct Ashley 20:31:44 From tichure : what happens tohis status among women as a result of his going to war? 20:31:50 From Vinay : goes down 20:31:53 From iPhone : he cannot provide 20:31:54 From tichure : Yes 20:31:56 From tichure : that is correct 20:32:10 From tichure : historical criticism is going to explain all that. It is not going to discuss Wilfred Owen at all 20:32:48 From tichure : it is simply going to explain that this guy, who is looking pretty good life, gets drunk one night and decides that he wants even more that adulation from the women figures that war is an awesome way to make that happen 20:33:00 From tichure : this is one of several works by this author in which the irony of the distinction between what the character expects and what happens is the main focus 20:33:03 From tichure : so let’s talk about the author 20:33:09 From tichure : was the author a soccer star? 20:33:17 From tichure : Was the author a hit with the ladies? 20:33:25 From tichure : Was the author an amputee? 20:34:26 From tichure : Biographical criticism requires that a work is autobiographical. In the same way that when we discussed fuel wallpaper there are little threads of the author’s experience in the work but it’s really not about her literal experience, in this case what we have is a story written by a guy who is going through an experience and has seen a bunch of things and wants to talk about it suite creates a fictional story with a fictional character in order to get his point across 20:35:12 From tichure : Wilfred Owen was not a soccer star. He was not hit with the ladies, nor did he want to be as he was gay which was illegal at the time. He was not an entity. He suffered from shell shock, which we now call post traumatic stress syndrome. He was treated and then sent back to the front. He died a week before the war ended 20:36:09 From tichure : knowing who Wilfred Owen is does not lend us to a biographical criticism; it leads to a Marxist criticism. He has a clear opinion about what’s going on here but it’s not based on the work being autobiographical. It’s based on the work being a reflection of his OPINION and viewpoint. His experience is part of your analysis to simply explain WHY he wrote this work but you’re not going to link it to his life as if it were a literal depiction of it and therefore it’s Marxist, not biographical 20:36:26 From tichure : does everybody see how that works 20:36:28 From Ashley : BUt you most likely need to use the biography to argue the marxist argument? 20:36:34 From tichure : yes 20:36:50 From tichure : absolutely. In fact Ashley, most Marxist analyses require some biography because we want to know where the authors coming from that they have this belief. 20:37:12 From tichure : This is also linked to the idea that we will have some historical information in the analysis of Marxist criticism or even cultural criticism because were using the facts of the era to explain how a particular individual or group feels about the issue that’s being discussed 20:37:35 From tichure : but both biographical and historical criticism are simply objective driven translations that explain the “facts” of the work rather than discussing any opinions generated by it. 20:38:13 From tichure : The paper, historical criticism is going to explain that women were under control their husbands and could be kept inside the house and his disposal if he wanted. It will not discuss whether that’s right or wrong or good or bad or moral or immoral. It’s simply going to explain that that is the law of the time. Discussing that it’s a bad thing would be either a Marxist criticism coming from the author or feminist criticism coming from that particular cultural viewpoint. 20:38:49 From tichure : What the experience described in the poem be the same today? 20:38:56 From tichure : Do we still admire athletes? 20:38:57 From Vinay : yes 20:39:09 From tichure : Do we still make decisions under the influence of alcohol that we might regret later 20:39:38 From tichure : however, do we treat injured veterans the same way that we did back in 1920? T 20:39:53 From tichure : Moreover, are injured veterans limited in terms of job opportunities the way they were back in 1920? T 20:40:06 From tichure : In terms of both treatment and job choices, would the Outlook be better for the same character in a modern setting? T 20:40:18 From tichure : This discussion would be part of a cultural criticism from modern day 20:40:58 From tichure : in which he would use statistical and anecdotal information about those who became amputees as a result of war and then how they were able to rebuild their lives or whatever happened to be. The depression and isolation that the character feels is actually still felt by returning military as part of PTSD, but the options for prosthetics and of course for living a more fulfilled life are fundamentally different 20:41:16 From tichure : and you could make a paragraph out of that by using those resources and course that would be a fundamentally different argument from historical criticism or even the Marxist criticism that Wilfred Owen presents 20:41:31 From tichure : does that make sense? 20:41:35 From Ashley : Yes 20:42:19 From tichure : Vinay, you good? 20:42:50 From Vinay : In a cultural criticism it is okay to compare it to present day values? 20:43:37 From tichure : Do you see a word they would really he’s been very realistic about what the what the outlook would be for this guy because he would be of you would be not marriageable quality and because women did not work in a way that would certainly raise them to any good status a woman would not choose them for a husband Mrs. realities of the time you know in and so the that the outlook for this guys pretty bad it’s species being he’s been realistic in the course the reason he knows this is because when he was spending time in convalescent he’s watching what’s going on around him because he’s also with people who are in that situation him 20:43:43 From tichure : they get sent back to the to the front. He did 20:43:56 From Vinay : ok 20:43:58 From tichure : o it’s not a comparison 20:44:44 From tichure : instead you’re simply translating the work saying that the work itself seems inaccurate and that you would disagree her that this culture skews me the culture would disagree with the author’s assessment that this guys life is over him because he has options and people would not treat him that way and in its decision of the different world, thank you ignore basically the fact that this was supposed to be set in 1917 and you would pretend it’s 2017 you know hundred years difference and and that hundred years with this case would make a big difference 20:45:13 From tichure : and so you would say from a cultural perspective of the modern era the poem seems to not be inaccurate portrayal of what happens to veterans and you would have information much of my statistical anecdotal information through Esco that would explain how many entity veterans are living fulfilled lives with families and jobs in general STUFF 20:45:15 From Vinay : Got it 20:46:07 From tichure : so here’s the deal by this time next week you should’ve chosen your primary source then you should have started your research process and what I would be looking for is a discussion between us as to how things are going along in terms of trying different critical perspectives etc. as well as resources and the like. To that end I would have you get started on your attitude works and between now and then of course try to build a least one you know workable analytical paragraph so that way next week we can discuss what you’re actually doing and we can talk about things less in terms of theoretical and more in terms of this is what you you can do on your paper 20:46:15 From tichure : and that way you know whenever you’re working on that’s the work we will talk about 20:46:16 From Ashley : sounds good 20:46:17 From Vinay : Will do 20:46:47 From tichure : obviously I am around during the week you can hit me up by email if you have a quick question and if the question is broad enough I will broadcast to everyone removing of course the specific personal information etc. but ultimately the idea is to keep rolling on this and to know get established on the paper that essentially will be paper one the annotated works the outline and of course the final paper 20:46:54 From tichure : any questions? 20:47:12 From Ashley : No 20:47:18 From Ashley : Thank you 20:47:30 From tichure : you’re welcome Ashley. We will talk next week 20:47:37 From tichure : if not sooner 20:47:41 From tichure : have a great holiday 20:47:46 From Ashley : Thanks you too! 20:47:50 From tichure : will do 20:47:58 From tichure : Vinay, you good? Any questions 20:48:17 From Vinay : im trying to type an example 20:48:21 From Vinay : and paste 20:48:27 From tichure : of what 20:48:41 From Vinay : marxist crit of la migra 20:49:14 From Vinay : the main discussion would be of the struggles of the border patrol in maintaing the border? 20:49:22 From tichure : no 20:49:38 From tichure : Marxist criticism has to do with the authors opinion and the author’s presentation of that opinion 20:50:04 From tichure : discussing the border patrol is a cultural perspective from the border patrol in which they would be responding to this poem and explaining how much they disagree with it 20:51:06 From tichure : Marxist criticism would find information about the author and why, as an American citizen, she is portraying the Americans in a bad way and the illegal immigrants in a positive way. Obviously, she is Latina, and she does live on the border in El Paso Texas. She is also a feminist which add certain elements to this poem which are about gender, which is something we did not discuss in our analysis. She is actually discussing gender politics within Latino culture. 20:52:07 From tichure : Another element of Marxist criticism is class struggle. To do so, you need to identify the upper-class, the bourgeoisie, and the lower class, the proletariat. He will then discuss what makes the bourgeoisie the group in power and how they wish to maintain that power. You would then also discuss how the proletariat wants to gain the power from the bourgeoisie and replace them. This only works when you have an actual power struggle between two identified classes within the work as we do in this particular case. Whether or not you discuss the authors opinion about this is up to you but if the author chooses a side, that would be certainly part of the analysis. 20:52:18 From tichure : So for Marxist criticism you start with the author 20:52:21 From Vinay : ok 20:52:22 From tichure : not the border patrol 20:52:30 From tichure : the border patrol’s opinion is cultural criticism. 20:53:20 From tichure : Response number two is a sample from your first paper. If you’re going to do this particular poem, that would be the arena in which I would read that particular analysis. 20:53:57 From Vinay : I will use that 20:54:15 From tichure : Very good. As you go along, you can always send me email as well if you have any questions 20:54:20 From Vinay : Ok 20:54:36 From Vinay : No questions, thanks for your help Dr. Eiland 20:54:40 From tichure : anything else i can help you with 20:54:44 From tichure : you’re welcome. 20:54:51 From tichure : See you next week. 20:55:02 From tichure : Enjoy the holiday tomorrow. 20:55:05 From Vinay : See you next week, Happy 4th of July! 20:55:15 From tichure : thank you 20:55:18 From tichure : Take care 20:55:20 From tichure : poof 20:55:22 From Vinay : bye