Joined on February 29, 2012 at 6:45 PM


tichure: 103


Sage: Hello, i guess we have not started, oh woops, it is not seven yet


Sage: i thought there would have been more people here at this time


tichure: hahaha....no....they wander in starting at 7


tichure: hey now


tichure: still loading


tichure: hey spring. You made it


tichure: have any of you chosen anything for the first paper


Sage: I have chosen to right about the meaning of the lyrics of American Pie (don Mclean)


tichure: which critical perspectives sage


Sage: That ought to fill up 4 or 5 pages. hahahaha


tichure: actually, for that  particular song, that's true but I do need to know which critical perspective you're applying


Sage: sorry i typed that before you asked the question


Sage: biographical/historical and cultural


tichure: how much of this is about the author?


Sage: do u think not as much as i expected


tichure: Well of course


tichure: in fact, the primary element refers to the author is the fact newspaper boy


tichure: bad news on the doorstep I couldn't take one more step


Sage: yep


tichure: could you write an entire paragraph with a minimum 10 sentences on that particular aspect of analysis


tichure: given that you have one line to deal with


tichure: one of the elements of doing this type of analysis is choosing the appropriate critical perspectives according to the work that is under discussion. Not every critical perspective is applicable to every particular work and certainly one of the first elements are going to be analyzing is whether or not the work is about the author. Do not automatically assume that work is automatically either about an author or evaluation of an era etc.


Sage: for that particular line no but most of them ye


Sage: s


tichure: then don't do biographical


tichure: is the song based on historical people and events?


Sage: yes


tichure: So a  obviously historical criticism is appropriate


Sage: so just historical and cultural, that might overlap a bit


tichure: for the case of American pie unlike any other song in the list, you can do the entire paper with one critical perspective because if you're going to do it right, you need to evaluate all of the elements as McLean examines what happens to culture and music over the short span he is discussing


tichure: which cultural perspective would you choose


Sage: my book is not here yet, i do not know the various cultural prespectives


tichure: besides being in the book sage. It's on my website


tichure: you could check them out right now


Sage: ah yes


tichure: englit.org,  literary terms, critical perspectives


tichure: critical approaches actually


Sage: i thaught i read everything, ill go look again


tichure: more portly, you wouldn't want to tell me you're going to do a  Critical perspective of any kind if you don't know what it is.


tichure: not a problem


tichure: as anybody else chosen a topic for the first paper


tichure: has anyone else chosen a topic for the first paper?


DavidF: I have


tichure: Tell me David


tichure: everybody can answer all  at once. I need information as quickly as possible


DavidF: Louis Armstrong


tichure: so we can move on to more analysis


tichure: which song David


DavidF: Oh, haven't chose that yet


Peter: I've choosen to write on Paranoid by Black Sabbath.


tichure: David, don't tell me you're going give me a biography of Louis Armstrong


tichure: no essay in this class is on a writer. It's on the work. I'm not looking for basic biographical information. I'm looking for analysis of particular work


tichure: Peter, which critical perspectives


tichure: now to talk about a DISCUSSION GROUP assignment, David, I can understand that you would be giving the biographical information. But I'm talking about your first paper


tichure: poem lyric paper


DavidF: I joined a little late, are we talking about the discussion board topic?


Peter: perhaps deconstruction


tichure: Peter, I need you to read the assignment.


tichure: Deconstruction is not on the list


tichure: not quite yet David. I want to know what you're doing for your first paper


tichure: poem/lyric paper


tichure: folks, rule number one of most college courses. Follow directions. The assignment is posted on CANVAS tells you to choose from cultural biographical historical gender etc. I guarantee you deconstruction is not on that list


Peter: i think we are all looking at different pages..


tichure: while I'm telling you to look at the poem lyric paperてカ paper number one


tichure: and look at the ASSIGNMENT


tichure: hahahaha


DavidF: I haven't chosen a topic on that yet, sorry for the confusion


tichure: that's what I need to know. I do want you to do something fairly soon David because the only way that I can help you to land in the right general area is if we have even a brief conversation about it.


tichure: More  importantly, the discussions that we have in the chat room are going to be on poetry from the book, but very often a student finds most helpful to actually discuss the work in which  she will be graded


DavidF: I will choose one and email to you


tichure: therefore when asked at the beginning of class whether or not you've  chosen your first paper topic, it is your opportunity to ask the questions and more importantly for me to make sure that you're on the right track


tichure: when you do, make sure you tell me which critical perspectives you will be applying


DavidF: got it


spring 1: i have also


tichure: excellent


tichure: the whole purpose for this process is that as we go through these discussions you begin to see what we're looking for a more importantly  what we're NOT looking for.


tichure: which critical perspectives spring


Sage: i read the cultual criticism papragraph and i am still confused. could u help me out


Sage: on the web


tichure: sure, sage hold on a second


spring 1: not sure exactly which meaning but definitely a symbolic meaning of the words


tichure: no that's formalist


tichure: that's what you did in English 101


tichure: for an entire semester


tichure: you don't need to do it here


spring 1: oh ok


tichure: Is this work based on the author and his own personal experiences?


spring 1: i need to review this then


Peter: if i do biographical on mine, would i talk about how ozzy was suffering through alcohol/drug abuse?


tichure: well we're going to discuss this in class today spring


tichure: yes Peter, if the alcoholism and drug abuse occurs prior or during the writing of the song


spring 1: great


tichure: if Ozzy Osbourne's famous drug use occurs afterwards, you cannot use biographical


tichure: spring, what you would want to do is find a biography of Kurt Cobain. And by the way folks for anybody who has Netflix, there are a great number of very credible biographical analyses on all kinds of musical people.


tichure: There is also  A lot available in the library of our school because of the strong music program.


tichure: that being said, the idea that is that a biographical criticism is a critical perspective that says the work itselfてカ your poem or songてカ is a depiction of what happened to the author at some point prior to the writing of the song


tichure: as I was discussing with sage, that doesn't always work


tichure: his choice of American pie, that much famous long-winded song by Don McLean, only has one reference to the author and therefore a biographical criticism would not be useful because you can get an entire college-level paragraph out of that


Peter: great, so im guessing cultural/historical would talk about how many went to the bottle in rough times


tichure: not necessarily Peter


tichure: in fact, historical and cultural are not the same


tichure:  historical criticism is a critical perspective that says the work is a reflection of the era


tichure: that means terminology


tichure: historical reference


tichure: famous events


tichure: famous people


Peter: ah ok


tichure: song written in the 1920s that uses the word GAY has different context than a  song written in the 2000s that use the word GAY


tichure: a cultural perspective, and you want to know about this, Sage, is a critical perspective that translates the work from a specific cultural group's perspective


tichure: it actually evaluates the work through the values and ideas and cases of the particular group of people


tichure: each one of them approaches the work in a different way


tichure: for example


tichure: I want to read


tichure: we real cool by Gwendolyn Brooks


tichure: let me know when you're ready it's very short


Sage: waht cultural group is best for american pie do u think? youth/adolecents


Sage: maybe?


tichure: hold on on sage, while we go through this process first and then perhaps you'll have a better answer than me simply telling you.... the deal is I'm not looking for you to write the essay that I would write. I'm looking for you to  Properly use these critical perspectives and there are many ways to do this correctlyてカ as well as many more ways to do it incorrectly.


tichure: read we real cool


tichure: what is the poem about


Peter: kids who dont care about school?


Sage: the poem is about kids who dropped out of school, they drink, and they have unhealthy life styles. they also hang at bars


Sage: (pool)


tichure: keep going Peter


tichure: that's good, sage


tichure: what is their future


Peter: they are into jaz and having fun


tichure: what do they do on a daily basis besides drank and hang out at bars and play pool


Peter: jazz*


tichure: very good


tichure: what is fun for them


Sage: music, poool,


Peter: hanging out and soaking up the sounds


Sage: pool*


tichure: what is thin gin?


tichure: sing sin?


Sage: they are going to die becauseof their unhealthy life style.


Peter: drinking gin and commiting sin


tichure: that is what it says


Sage: brag about bad things they done and doingthem


tichure: what we have just done is standard formalist criticism. Of course, you won't do that for me on your paper


tichure: exactly sage


tichure: open up a web browser


tichure: to find something on Gwendolyn Brooks


tichure: and tell me whether or not she's talking about herself


Peter: shes talking about the lifestyle in her neighborhood


tichure: does Gwendolyn Brooks hang out in pool halls


Sage: nice peter


tichure: did she drop out of school


Sage: she had a very stable life style except for racial prejudice in her town


tichure: the difference between historical and biographical criticism is that one talks about what was happening in the other one talks about what happened to the author


tichure: does she make her living in a pool hall


tichure: so far you are correct sage


tichure: what does she do for a living


tichure: and is it reflected in the work


tichure: you found racism in her lifeてカ is racism reflected in the work


Sage: some of her poems have reflected that


tichure: I did  NOT ask you about some poems stage


tichure: sage


tichure: I asked you about this one


Sage: i would assume that the kids she is talking aabout were likely racist though


Sage: sorry


tichure: like I said, I'm not asking you to give me analysis of an author. Stay on focus


Sage: whoops


tichure: do not assume anything


Peter: she saw people going into pool halls playing, skipping school


tichure: that is correct Peter


tichure: is this about HER


spring 1: she went to many different schools giving her a perspective on racial dynamics that translated into her work


tichure: is the narrative about HER


tichure: hahahaha


Sage: no


tichure: good answer sage


tichure: is biographical criticism appropriate for this particular work


Sage: no


tichure: good answer


tichure: one of the things that made you did mention is that she's talking about people that she witnessed


tichure: therefore, is she talking about a lifestyle at a particular time in history?


Peter: well kids still skip school to do what they think is fun, so its kind of timeless


Sage: yes, especially in the state she lived in


tichure: More importantly, this has to do with your research.


tichure: Thank you Sage


Sage: it is worse today


tichure: the idea is to stay on track for whatever critical perspective that you're trying out so that you don't end up with a wandering essay that says essentially nothing


tichure: hold off on today


tichure: I'm talking about when this was written


tichure: when was this written


Peter: 1950?


tichure: and is she talking about something that she knows because she observed it or would have known that statistically it was evident within a bigger population


tichure: what would you use for a secondary source to support this as being historically accurate


spring 1: both


tichure: very good spring and what would you use as a secondary source


spring 1: not sure


Sage: there are many articles that talk about adolecent lifes in different time periods


Sage: life styles*


tichure: very good sage


tichure: one of the resources that you should be considering that are in the library is called the People's chronology


tichure: available through the gale virtual library, the People's chronology explains cultural trends and historical elements year by year after the year 1000 and before that goes by decade


tichure: if one were to do research, one would find out that a particular segment of the population and found that school was not very important


tichure: what is the setting for this particular very short story


Peter: the golden shovel pool hall?


tichure: where is that Peter


Sage: ohhh


tichure: where are pool halls generally


spring 1: bars


Peter: in a poverty area of a large city


tichure: very good Peter


tichure: well spring, a pool hall is by definition a type of bar


tichure: but peters more on the right track


tichure: by and large, what populations are often inhabiting large cities


tichure: and what is their attitude about school


tichure: and its usefulness for life


tichure: Keep in mind, this is 1950


Peter: large cities often have large apartment complexes with a very large percentage living in pverty. school is very low priority


Peter: getting a job in construction is often a goal. often time many turn to crime as well


Peter: am i close?


tichure: very good


tichure: is race a factor


Sage: yes


spring 1: yes


tichure: what was the likelihood in 1950s that an African American is going to be able to get into college


Peter: very low


tichure: then what's the point of going to high school


tichure: for them


spring 1: low


Peter: getting a job to help the family is more of a priority?


spring 1: hoping for change


tichure: very good Peter


tichure: absolutely spring


tichure: and in fact, what is happening to the American family for the inner-city blacks of the 1950s


tichure: in terms of cohesiveness


tichure: sense of responsibility


tichure: to need to get a steady job


tichure: this is where your historical information is going to be useful


tichure: analyses of what is happening within specific cultures have specific time help you translate work within the context of the author intends


spring 1: they began to come together. setting the stage for the civil rights mov


tichure: being a Gwendolyn Brooks herself is writing about the inner cities of Chicago


tichure: which are predominantly black


tichure: tells us she has something to tell us


tichure: spring, I wanted to as much as possible try to avoid automatically assuming that things


tichure: hahhaahh


tichure: are going to get any better


tichure: what is happening to the nuclear family for African-Americans in the inner cities


tichure: in reality


tichure: by the 1950s and fully into the 60s and 70s


tichure: I'm going to send you something.


Peter: ok


spring 1: ok


tichure: Check your e-mail


Peter: got it


tichure: what I want you to do is get into either Ebscohost or the Gale literature resource Center and find biographical information about the author, as opposed to using something on Wikipedia.


tichure: Furthermore, you can use some of the other databases concerning sociology and HISTORY that are available for Ebscohost when you get a big long list of things to choose from when you first login


tichure: choose anything that says HISTORY and anything that involves MEDICINE or HEALTH


tichure: and you're going to get articles that talk about the era and the issues that your works discussed but will not discuss the works themselves.


tichure: What you're looking for is the nuclear family for African-Americans in inner cities in the 50s


tichure: and the question is whether or not they are cohesive or they're breaking apart


tichure: and were looking for tendencies here


tichure: because the question would beてカ if these guys went out to get jobs  to support families, how consistent is the money if what they're doing is hanging out at a pool hall?


tichure: And therefore are they really doing this for their families at all or is this a more selfish endeavor


spring 1: got email and read


tichure: from  the historical perspective, if what the authors doing is giving us a slice of  someone's lifestyle, we have to also make sense of what she's tried to tell us


tichure: and I will tell you now that it is unlikely she's trying to tell us something positive


Peter: selfishness is splitting families apart from unsteady incomes?


tichure:  does that fit what is going on in this poem?


spring 1: yes


Peter: it appears so


tichure: from a middle-class white perspective, how would they view the story of these inner-city black youth and their choices?


tichure: How would they feel about these boys/men and their choices?


spring 1: it seems like they drop put of school to work to make money to live a fast lifestyle ignpring their responsibilities


Peter: irresponsible


Peter: leeches on society?


Sage: have not gotten email yet, sorry i was not part of chat for a couple mins. my little nrother had to sell his hamster.


Sage: haha


tichure: Very good spring


tichure: very good Peter


tichure: thanks for the information stage. I hope you made a bundle


Sage: ha


tichure: cultural criticism is a critical perspective that  translate to work from the perspective of a particular group


tichure: in this case, the cultural analysis from a middle-class white society would find very little empathy with the choices that these black youth have made with their lives


tichure: how they feel about gambling?


tichure: How do they feel about drinking?


tichure: How do they feel about lack of a steady job?


tichure: How do they feel about poor black people in the first place?


spring 1: got it


spring 1: did u say this was cultural criticism


Sage: Drinking, alot of drugs, and especially smoking was not as taboo as it used to be for the people that did it


tichure: yes it is spring


tichure: very good sage


tichure: and again, in this case were only talking about alcohol but in any case


tichure: this is 1950s


tichure: 1950s conservative white society


tichure: who would have a problem with not only these social issues, but also raise


tichure: you would find a resource that discusses their attitudes in their beliefs


tichure: and use that as the filter to analyze the work


Sage: ahhh


tichure: conservative white society would have a problem with not only the social issues, but would also race


tichure: for example in contrast


tichure: how would inner-city black youth respond to the poem and what the characters are doing


Peter: they would see them as cool


spring 1: as a desired life. they have it made so it seems


tichure: very good


tichure: to different critical perspectives


tichure: to different cultures


tichure: two different paragraphs


tichure: 2 different critical perspectives


Sage: like sprong sid, it would be layed back, "bad boyish", and easy


tichure: 2 different cultures


Sage: spring*


tichure: well, more importantly what were looking for is a secondary source that supports the notion that they would necessarily agree or least not have a problem with those images


Sage: it depends which people and social class


tichure: that's exactly the point stage


Sage: k


tichure: any cultural criticism is going to be an analysis from a particular cultural group that YOU identify and YOU find resources for


tichure: and you will filter the work through that particular cultural lens


tichure: how would a Mormon respond to this group of characters in the story


Sage: deffenetly


Sage: ha


Peter: they appear very sinful


tichure: be specific here


tichure: specific Peter


tichure: what rules are you referring to


Peter: they are drinking


tichure: religion is a culture. Each religion has specific rules


tichure: and according to Mormonsてカ


Peter: you can not pollute your body


Sage: mormons do not drink, they work ahrd, and complete their education


tichure: what if they just had a soda?


tichure: Peter, you're on the right track, but you have to give me specifics


tichure: very good sage


tichure: that is a better answer


Sage: hard not ahrd


tichure: because it has more specifics


tichure: I knew what you meant


Peter: exactly


tichure: how would an Orthodox Jew  respond to the characters


Sage: similar


Peter: that was strange, got kicked out


tichure: how would an orthodox Muslim respond to the characters


tichure: your back


Sage: not sure


spring 1: I think most of any stroing faith would lookdon on this behavior but maybe still have compassion


tichure: the funny thing is that we can actually find that ideologies that seem at odds with each other actually agree about many things


tichure: you are correct spring, but compassion may not be one of them


spring 1: yes


tichure: the more conservative and fundamentalist  the belief system, the more likely they're going to say that these transgressions are not a matter of something that can be fixed, but rather something that is the onus upon the individual to change


tichure: in other words, it they would not necessarily agree that alcoholism,  for example, is a disease, but would rather see it as a personal failing


tichure: the point however is that you can skin this particular cat in all kinds of ways


tichure: and each one is a cultural analysis


tichure: and all you need for each individual cultural analysis is some kind of source or reference that gives the rules and values for them


tichure: and when you find out that conservative Muslims and conservative Jews and conservative Christians and other conservative groups find education to be of utmost importance and lack of direction and drug use to be horrible transgressions would  translate the work similarly


tichure: in makes for an interesting paper


spring 1: so this is one of the ways to look at doing the lyric/poem


tichure: yes


tichure: and you can do more than one cultural perspective in each essay


tichure: since we party identified this is not about the author, we know that biographical is off the table.


tichure: We do know that historically, she's discussing what is happening to get her semi within the inner city, so historical would be appropriate but historical is only to give a statistical information that supports that her portrayal is accurate


tichure: dropout rates for inner-city youth


tichure: dropout rates for inner-city black youth


tichure: drug use for inner-city youth


tichure: life expectancy for inner-city youth


tichure: etc.


tichure: that would be historical


tichure: it does not carry with it any opinion


tichure: it simply connects facts to the work


tichure: you see how these critical perspectives apply in this particular case???


spring 1: yes


Peter: yes


Sage: yes


tichure: in this case, biographical is a bad choice but historical and several cultural criticisms would be appropriate


tichure: each cultural criticism is going to be its own paragraph


tichure: each cultural criticism is  going to require a secondary source that discusses how that your culture thinks and believes and feels


tichure: it is unlikely that that cultural criticism is going to discuss the story specifically


tichure: you would make those connections


tichure: everybody with me so far


Peter: yes, it seems more clear now


spring 1: y


tichure: excellent


tichure: as the author have a point here


tichure: does the author have a point here


tichure: is she trying to tell us something


tichure: or she merely trying to tell us that inner-city black kids are bad news


Sage: yes


Sage: whoops didnt mean to say yes to that


tichure: hahahaha


spring 1: yes i believes she  has a point


tichure: what is the point


tichure: what is her point


spring 1: i think it's laziness and lack of self discipline does not lead to a long and prosperous life


tichure: very good


Sage: she is saying tHAT THE SCENARIO that this kids were in in there life was not good, and influenced them badly to become what they did.


Sage: and what spring said


Sage: haha


tichure: hahahah


tichure: sage, is there any indication  that she is blaming the school system or society for their  situation


tichure: and you must stick to the poem


tichure: spring, who is the audience for that particular message


tichure: in other words, who DOESN'T seem to know this


Sage: yes* to the society and school question


tichure: sage, show me in the poem where she blames or mentions the school system or society for these people's choices


spring 1: youth


Sage: ii was never fond of the public school system in the US my self but


Sage: ohh


Sage: i guess i did not meant to say that she said it but merely meant it


tichure: i will never ask you your opinion sage


tichure: doesnt work that way


tichure: spring


tichure: which youth


Sage: alright


Peter: she never says or blames schools. its the youths selfish choice to do what they do. they have no reason or longing to do good in school. no incentive if they cant get to college anyhow.


tichure: very good Peter


tichure: which youth need to know this


Sage: aahh ok


tichure: which ones is she speaking to


Peter: black youth


tichure: that need to know that these kids are going to die because of their own choice


tichure: very good Peter


tichure: why would Gwendolyn Brooks care about them


Peter: because she was one


tichure: why would Gwendolen broke scared to tell these losers what they're doing wrong


tichure: exactly


Sage: that is her race and she tinks they could do better


tichure: Marxists criticism is a critical perspective that essentially says that an author has an ax to grind and very often they are PROPAGANDIZING by explaining something to an audience that does not seem to understand a particular idea


tichure: that is correct sage


tichure: from a Marxist perspective, she is talking to black youth and she's telling them that they are screwing up their lives even though they think that they are cool


tichure: she uses the first-person narrative and their slang and gathers them in by talking about the things that they consider cool in a way that seems positive and slowly brings them around to that inevitable demise


tichure: and the message to them is that they are destroying their lives


tichure: she does not discuss the horrible school system


tichure: she does not discuss the horrible effects of racism


tichure: because if she were to do that he would fall into the notion that they have someone else to blame


tichure: and while she knows that society has a lot of the impact on what happens to use in all kinds of cultures, that is not the point of this particular work


Sage: ohhh


tichure: the point would be lost if she allowed them to blame someone else


tichure: so she focuses on the kids because in this message is that kids who need to be changing


tichure: therefore she does not mention the crappy school system


tichure: she does not mention the racist environment


tichure: including politicians and cops


tichure: she mentions that at some point these people have to do something for themselves


tichure: and that their own choices will have negative consequences if their bad choices


tichure: who is she speaking to that agrees with her already


Peter: the reader


tichure: peter, again, which one


tichure: whenever you're doing this type of analysis, you must identify the audience SPECIFICALLY


tichure: otherwise the reader is black youth


tichure: and she is propagandizing them to change their attitudes


tichure: I'm looking for someone who AGREES with your point


tichure: that these kids are throwing their lives away


tichure: who agrees with her point


tichure: who is she speaking to that agrees with her point


Peter: shes trying to communicate this to whoever is reading. she wants to better the reader and make them aware of the black youth's pitfalls


tichure: peter,  don't do that


tichure: it's too broad


tichure: it gives you no way to research it in any meaningful way


tichure: the reason we chose black youth as the propagandized audience is because we can easily look up resources that explain how they think about the very things that are being portrayed their


tichure: we would know that gambling and drinking are cool


tichure: and that school is not favored by that particular group


tichure: if you tell me that the audiences EVERYBODY how do you apply any opinion


tichure: you can also not give me AMERICA as an answer because it is too broad and too diverse


tichure: which segment of society agrees with Gwendolyn Brooks that black youths are throwing their lives away with poor choices especially when it comes to drugs and education


tichure: in other words, who cares


Peter: conservatives?


spring 1: elders


tichure: very good  Peter


tichure: very good spring


tichure: in this case, Marxist criticism would say that Gwendolyn Brooks is PANDERING to an audience by telling them what they agree with. She essentially is  preaching to the choir in the sense that she tells them things that they agree with which validate their opinion


tichure: pandering and propagandizing are different in the sense of AUDIENCE


tichure: and therefore it is necessary that you identify the audience very specifically


tichure: the message is generally the same but specifically different


tichure: to the propagandized group, the message is usually CHANGE


tichure: to the pandered group, the message is usually YOU ARE CORRECT


tichure: pandering also is applied when a work panders to the more prurient interests of an audience


tichure: for example,


tichure: give me the standard requirements for a rap video


Peter: beat


tichure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy4FXhkm6Nw


tichure: here is a tame one


tichure: it's more than that here


tichure: it's more than that Peter


tichure: this has to do with making sure that the audience is truly catered to


tichure: so they'll keep coming back


tichure: and you identify the audience


tichure: and you identify what you're giving them


tichure: what you're pandering to


spring 1: women wearing practiculy nothing grinding on each other or the rapper themselves


tichure: very good springてカ I believe what you're talking about is sex


tichure: keep going


tichure: what else


tichure: especially, for example, gangster rap which would have something that this particular video does not


spring 1: flashy cars and jewelry


Sage: ha


Peter: the appearance of prosperity


spring 1: drugs alchol and all supposed life can bring


tichure: very good spring


tichure: very good Peter


tichure: very good spring again


tichure: who's the audience


tichure: who is the PRIMARY audience


tichure: male or female


tichure: young or old


Peter: young males


tichure: sex drugs and  prosperity


tichure: I'm shocked


spring 1: male of low economic value showing that this life can bring you to where you want


tichure: pandering also refers to the author's intentional use of specific devices to gather an audience and please them


tichure: sometime spring and sometimes the mail of extremely high economic status showing off what they have


tichure: because it has to do with power and prestige


spring 1: true


tichure: when you watch your favorite soap opera on television, who is the primary audience


tichure: Gray's anatomy


tichure: male or female


tichure: young or middle-aged


tichure: when elements make it appeal to that ticket or audience


tichure: to that particular audience


spring 1: females, both those who are at home with kids or retired


tichure: very good


tichure: when elements within that particular television show appeal to that group


tichure: how are men portrayed? How are women  portrayed? What kind of music is used?


tichure: what are the topics under discussion


tichure: is this type of formulaic standard that we did various types of music, television, movies and other programming specifically  designed for a specific demographic


tichure: Marxist criticism essentially says that pandering is useful and common because simply they are selling a product. They are not telling us about truth or reality or trying to make us better people. They are merely selling a commodity and they are making the commodity as appropriately attractive as possible


spring 1: this type of work is similar as the rap video but hidden in a different way. the soap is still selling sex, money as a means


tichure: of course


tichure: differ not against


tichure: different audience


tichure: different values


tichure: different product


tichure: same means


spring 1: y


tichure: Marxist criticism does not distinguish between good and bad. Marxist criticism is not about Marxism. Marxist criticism is about the notion that any work as a commodity and therefore is being used by the author either to tell you something you do not want to hear through PROPAGANDIZING or to give you what you want through PANDERING


spring 1: never looked at it that way before. very intresting


tichure: good lord, look at the time


Sage: i have to leave this discussion everyone, sorry.


tichure: I want you to choose your topic for your first paper. If you done so, I want you to start your research. Keep in mind the unique used valid credible resources.


tichure: I do too sage


tichure: have a good week everybody. I'll see you here next week


spring 1: ok


Peter: very good, thanks for the great insight proffessor


Peter: good night


tichure: poof