Joined on February 29, 2012 at 6:45 PM

tichure: 103

Sage: Hello, i guess we have not started, oh woops, it is not seven yet

Sage: i thought there would have been more people here at this time

tichure: wander in starting at 7

tichure: hey now

tichure: still loading

tichure: hey spring. You made it

tichure: have any of you chosen anything for the first paper

Sage: I have chosen to right about the meaning of the lyrics of American Pie (don Mclean)

tichure: which critical perspectives sage

Sage: That ought to fill up 4 or 5 pages. hahahaha

tichure: actually, for that  particular song, that's true but I do need to know which critical perspective you're applying

Sage: sorry i typed that before you asked the question

Sage: biographical/historical and cultural

tichure: how much of this is about the author?

Sage: do u think not as much as i expected

tichure: Well of course

tichure: in fact, the primary element refers to the author is the fact newspaper boy

tichure: bad news on the doorstep I couldn't take one more step

Sage: yep

tichure: could you write an entire paragraph with a minimum 10 sentences on that particular aspect of analysis

tichure: given that you have one line to deal with

tichure: one of the elements of doing this type of analysis is choosing the appropriate critical perspectives according to the work that is under discussion. Not every critical perspective is applicable to every particular work and certainly one of the first elements are going to be analyzing is whether or not the work is about the author. Do not automatically assume that work is automatically either about an author or evaluation of an era etc.

Sage: for that particular line no but most of them ye

Sage: s

tichure: then don't do biographical

tichure: is the song based on historical people and events?

Sage: yes

tichure: So a  obviously historical criticism is appropriate

Sage: so just historical and cultural, that might overlap a bit

tichure: for the case of American pie unlike any other song in the list, you can do the entire paper with one critical perspective (Historical, in 2 sections, 1950 and 60's) because if you're going to do it right, you need to evaluate all of the elements as McLean examines what happens to culture and music over the short span he is discussing

tichure: which cultural perspective would you choose

Sage: my book is not here yet, i do not know the various cultural prespectives

tichure: besides being in the book sage. It's on my website

tichure: you could check them out right now

Sage: ah yes

tichure:,  literary terms, critical perspectives

tichure: critical approaches actually

Sage: i thaught i read everything, ill go look again

tichure: more importantly, you wouldn't want to tell me you're going to do a  Critical perspective of any kind if you don't know what it is.

tichure: not a problem

tichure: has anyone else chosen a topic for the first paper?

tichure: everybody can answer all  at once. I need information as quickly as possible

tichure: not quite yet David. I want to know what you're doing for your first paper

tichure: folks, rule number one of most college courses. Follow directions. The assignment is posted on CANVAS tells you to choose from cultural biographical historical gender etc. I guarantee you deconstruction is not on that list

Peter: i think we are all looking at different pages..

tichure: while I'm telling you to look at the  paper number one

tichure: and look at the ASSIGNMENT

DavidF: I haven't chosen a topic on that yet, sorry for the confusion

tichure: that's what I need to know. I do want you to do something fairly soon David because the only way that I can help you to land in the right general area is if we have even a brief conversation about it.

tichure: More  importantly, the discussions that we have in the chat room are going to be on poetry from the  calendar, but very often a student finds most helpful to actually discuss the work in which  she will be graded

DavidF: I will choose one and email to you

tichure: therefore when asked at the beginning of class whether or not you've  chosen your first paper topic, it is your opportunity to ask the questions and more importantly for me to make sure that you're on the right track

tichure: when you do, make sure you tell me which critical perspectives you will be applying

DavidF: got it

spring 1: i have also

tichure: excellent

tichure: the whole purpose for this process is that as we go through these discussions you begin to see what we're looking for a more importantly  what we're NOT looking for.

tichure: which critical perspectives spring

Sage: i read the cultual criticism papragraph and i am still confused. could u help me out

Sage: on the web

tichure: sure, sage hold on a second

spring 1: not sure exactly which meaning but definitely a symbolic meaning of the words

tichure: no that's formalist

tichure: that's what you did in English 101

tichure: for an entire semester

tichure: you don't need to do it here

spring 1: oh ok

tichure: Is this work based on the author and his own personal experiences?

spring 1: i need to review this then

Peter: if i do biographical on mine, would i talk about how ozzy was suffering through alcohol/drug abuse?

tichure: well we're going to discuss this in class today spring

tichure: yes Peter, if the alcoholism and drug abuse occurs prior or during the writing of the song

spring 1: great

tichure: if Ozzy Osbourne's famous drug use occurs afterwards, you cannot use biographical

tichure: spring, what you would want to do is find a biography of Kurt Cobain. And by the way folks for anybody who has Netflix, there are a great number of very credible biographical analyses on all kinds of musical people.

tichure: There is also  A lot available in the library of our school because of the strong music program.

tichure: that being said, the idea that is that a biographical criticism is a critical perspective that says the work itselfてカ your poem or songてカ is a depiction of what happened to the author at some point prior to the writing of the song

tichure: as I was discussing with sage, that doesn't always work

tichure: his choice of American pie, that much famous long-winded song by Don McLean, only has one reference to the author and therefore a biographical criticism would not be useful because you can get an entire college-level paragraph out of that

Peter: great, so im guessing cultural/historical would talk about how many went to the bottle in rough times

tichure: not necessarily Peter

tichure: in fact, historical and cultural are not the same

tichure:  historical criticism is a critical perspective that says the work is a reflection of the era

tichure: that means terminology

tichure: historical reference

tichure: famous events

tichure: famous people

Peter: ah ok

tichure: song written in the 1920s that uses the word GAY has different context than a  song written in the 2000s that use the word GAY

tichure: a cultural perspective, and you want to know about this, Sage, is a critical perspective that translates the work from a specific cultural group's perspective

tichure: it actually evaluates the work through the values and ideas and cases of the particular group of people

tichure: each one of them approaches the work in a different way

tichure: for example

tichure: I want to read

tichure: we real cool by Gwendolyn Brooks

tichure: let me know when you're ready it's very short

Sage: waht cultural group is best for american pie do u think? youth/adolecents

Sage: maybe?

tichure: hold on on sage, while we go through this process first and then perhaps you'll have a better answer than me simply telling you.... the deal is I'm not looking for you to write the essay that I would write. I'm looking for you to  Properly use these critical perspectives and there are many ways to do this correctlyてカ as well as many more ways to do it incorrectly.

tichure: read we real cool

tichure: what is the poem about

Peter: kids who dont care about school?

Sage: the poem is about kids who dropped out of school, they drink, and they have unhealthy life styles. they also hang at bars

Sage: (pool)

tichure: keep going Peter

tichure: that's good, sage

tichure: what is their future

Peter: they are into jaz and having fun

tichure: what do they do on a daily basis besides drank and hang out at bars and play pool

Peter: jazz*

tichure: very good

tichure: what is fun for them

Sage: music, poool,

Peter: hanging out and soaking up the sounds

Sage: pool*

tichure: what is thin gin?

tichure: sing sin?

Sage: they are going to die because of their unhealthy life style.

Peter: drinking gin and commiting sin

tichure: that is what it says

Sage: brag about bad things they done and doingthem

tichure: what we have just done is standard formalist criticism. Of course, you won't do that for me on your paper

tichure: exactly sage

tichure: open up a web browser

tichure: to find something on Gwendolyn Brooks

tichure: and tell me whether or not she's talking about herself

Peter: shes talking about the lifestyle in her neighborhood

tichure: does Gwendolyn Brooks hang out in pool halls

Sage: nice peter

tichure: did she drop out of school

Sage: she had a very stable life style except for racial prejudice in her town

tichure: the difference between historical and biographical criticism is that one talks about what was happening in the other one talks about what happened to the author

tichure: does she make her living in a pool hall

tichure: so far you are correct sage

tichure: what does she do for a living

tichure: and is it reflected in the work

tichure: you found racism in her lifeてカ is racism reflected in the work

Sage: some of her poems have reflected that

tichure: I did  NOT ask you about some poems stage

tichure: sage

tichure: I asked you about this one

Sage: i would assume that the kids she is talking aabout were likely racist though

Sage: sorry

tichure: like I said, I'm not asking you to give me analysis of an author. Stay on focus

Sage: whoops

tichure: do not assume anything

Peter: she saw people going into pool halls playing, skipping school

tichure: that is correct Peter

tichure: is this about HER

spring 1: she went to many different schools giving her a perspective on racial dynamics that translated into her work

tichure: is the narrative about HER

tichure: hahahaha

Sage: no

tichure: good answer sage

tichure: is biographical criticism appropriate for this particular work

Sage: no

tichure: good answer

tichure: one of the things that made you did mention is that she's talking about people that she witnessed

tichure: therefore, is she talking about a lifestyle at a particular time in history?

Peter: well kids still skip school to do what they think is fun, so its kind of timeless

Sage: yes, especially in the state she lived in

tichure: More importantly, this has to do with your research.

tichure: Thank you Sage

Sage: it is worse today

tichure: the idea is to stay on track for whatever critical perspective that you're trying out so that you don't end up with a wandering essay that says essentially nothing

tichure: hold off on today

tichure: I'm talking about when this was written

tichure: when was this written

Peter: 1950?

tichure: and is she talking about something that she knows because she observed it or would have known that statistically it was evident within a bigger population

tichure: what would you use for a secondary source to support this as being historically accurate

spring 1: both

tichure: very good spring and what would you use as a secondary source

spring 1: not sure

Sage: there are many articles that talk about adolecent lifes in different time periods

Sage: life styles*

tichure: very good sage

tichure: one of the resources that you should be considering that are in the library is called the People's chronology

tichure: available through the gale virtual library, the People's chronology explains cultural trends and historical elements year by year after the year 1000 and before that goes by decade

tichure: if one were to do research, one would find out that a particular segment of the population and found that school was not very important

tichure: what is the setting for this particular very short story

Peter: the golden shovel pool hall?

tichure: where is that Peter

Sage: ohhh

tichure: where are pool halls generally

spring 1: bars

Peter: in a poverty area of a large city

tichure: very good Peter

tichure: well spring, a pool hall is by definition a type of bar

tichure: but peters more on the right track

tichure: by and large, what populations are often inhabiting large cities

tichure: and what is their attitude about school

tichure: and its usefulness for life

tichure: Keep in mind, this is 1950

Peter: large cities often have large apartment complexes with a very large percentage living in pverty. school is very low priority

Peter: getting a job in construction is often a goal. often time many turn to crime as well

Peter: am i close?

tichure: very good

tichure: is race a factor

Sage: yes

spring 1: yes

tichure: what was the likelihood in 1950s that an African American is going to be able to get into college

Peter: very low

tichure: then what's the point of going to high school

tichure: for them

spring 1: low

Peter: getting a job to help the family is more of a priority?

spring 1: hoping for change

tichure: very good Peter

tichure: absolutely spring

tichure: and in fact, what is happening to the American family for the inner-city blacks of the 1950s

tichure: in terms of cohesiveness

tichure: sense of responsibility

tichure: to need to get a steady job

tichure: this is where your historical information is going to be useful

tichure: analyses of what is happening within specific cultures have specific time help you translate work within the context of the author intends

spring 1: they began to come together. setting the stage for the civil rights mov

tichure: being a Gwendolyn Brooks herself is writing about the inner cities of Chicago

tichure: which are predominantly black

tichure: tells us she has something to tell us

tichure: spring, I wanted to as much as possible try to avoid automatically assuming that things

tichure: hahhaahh

tichure: are going to get any better

tichure: what is happening to the nuclear family for African-Americans in the inner cities

tichure: in reality

tichure: by the 1950s and fully into the 60s and 70s

tichure: I'm going to send you something.

Peter: ok

spring 1: ok

tichure: Check your e-mail

Peter: got it

tichure: what I want you to do is get into either Ebscohost or the Gale literature resource Center and find biographical information about the author, as opposed to using something on Wikipedia.

tichure: Furthermore, you can use some of the other databases concerning sociology and HISTORY that are available for Ebscohost when you get a big long list of things to choose from when you first login

tichure: choose anything that says HISTORY and anything that involves MEDICINE or HEALTH

tichure: and you're going to get articles that talk about the era and the issues that your works discussed but will not discuss the works themselves.

tichure: What you're looking for is the nuclear family for African-Americans in inner cities in the 50s

tichure: and the question is whether or not they are cohesive or they're breaking apart

tichure: and were looking for tendencies here

tichure: because the question would beてカ if these guys went out to get jobs  to support families, how consistent is the money if what they're doing is hanging out at a pool hall?

tichure: And therefore are they really doing this for their families at all or is this a more selfish endeavor

spring 1: got email and read

tichure: from  the historical perspective, if what the authors doing is giving us a slice of  someone's lifestyle, we have to also make sense of what she's tried to tell us

tichure: and I will tell you now that it is unlikely she's trying to tell us something positive

Peter: selfishness is splitting families apart from unsteady incomes?

tichure:  does that fit what is going on in this poem?

spring 1: yes

Peter: it appears so

tichure: from a middle-class white perspective, how would they view the story of these inner-city black youth and their choices?

tichure: How would they feel about these boys/men and their choices?

spring 1: it seems like they drop put of school to work to make money to live a fast lifestyle ignpring their responsibilities

Peter: irresponsible

Peter: leeches on society?

Sage: have not gotten email yet, sorry i was not part of chat for a couple mins. my little nrother had to sell his hamster.

Sage: haha

tichure: Very good spring

tichure: very good Peter

tichure: thanks for the information stage. I hope you made a bundle

Sage: ha

tichure: cultural criticism is a critical perspective that  translate to work from the perspective of a particular group

tichure: in this case, the cultural analysis from a middle-class white society would find very little empathy with the choices that these black youth have made with their lives

tichure: how they feel about gambling?

tichure: How do they feel about drinking?

tichure: How do they feel about lack of a steady job?

tichure: How do they feel about poor black people in the first place?

spring 1: got it

spring 1: did u say this was cultural criticism

Sage: Drinking, alot of drugs, and especially smoking was not as taboo as it used to be for the people that did it

tichure: yes it is spring

tichure: very good sage

tichure: and again, in this case were only talking about alcohol but in any case

tichure: this is 1950s

tichure: 1950s conservative white society

tichure: who would have a problem with not only these social issues, but also raise

tichure: you would find a resource that discusses their attitudes in their beliefs

tichure: and use that as the filter to analyze the work

Sage: ahhh

tichure: conservative white society would have a problem with not only the social issues, but would also race

tichure: for example in contrast

tichure: how would inner-city black youth respond to the poem and what the characters are doing

Peter: they would see them as cool

spring 1: as a desired life. they have it made so it seems

tichure: very good

tichure: to different critical perspectives

tichure: to different cultures

tichure: two different paragraphs

tichure: 2 different critical perspectives

Sage: like sprong sid, it would be layed back, "bad boyish", and easy

tichure: 2 different cultures

Sage: spring*

tichure: well, more importantly what were looking for is a secondary source that supports the notion that they would necessarily agree or least not have a problem with those images

Sage: it depends which people and social class

tichure: that's exactly the point stage

Sage: k

tichure: any cultural criticism is going to be an analysis from a particular cultural group that YOU identify and YOU find resources for

tichure: and you will filter the work through that particular cultural lens

tichure: how would a Mormon respond to this group of characters in the story

Sage: deffenetly

Sage: ha

Peter: they appear very sinful

tichure: be specific here

tichure: specific Peter

tichure: what rules are you referring to

Peter: they are drinking

tichure: religion is a culture. Each religion has specific rules

tichure: and according to Mormonsてカ

Peter: you can not pollute your body

Sage: mormons do not drink, they work ahrd, and complete their education

tichure: what if they just had a soda?

tichure: Peter, you're on the right track, but you have to give me specifics

tichure: very good sage

tichure: that is a better answer

Sage: hard not ahrd

tichure: because it has more specifics

tichure: I knew what you meant

Peter: exactly

tichure: how would an Orthodox Jew  respond to the characters

Sage: similar

Peter: that was strange, got kicked out

tichure: how would an orthodox Muslim respond to the characters

tichure: your back

Sage: not sure

spring 1: I think most of any stroing faith would lookdon on this behavior but maybe still have compassion

tichure: the funny thing is that we can actually find that ideologies that seem at odds with each other actually agree about many things

tichure: you are correct spring, but compassion may not be one of them

spring 1: yes

tichure: the more conservative and fundamentalist  the belief system, the more likely they're going to say that these transgressions are not a matter of something that can be fixed, but rather something that is the onus upon the individual to change

tichure: in other words, it they would not necessarily agree that alcoholism,  for example, is a disease, but would rather see it as a personal failing

tichure: the point however is that you can skin this particular cat in all kinds of ways

tichure: and each one is a cultural analysis

tichure: and all you need for each individual cultural analysis is some kind of source or reference that gives the rules and values for them

tichure: and when you find out that conservative Muslims and conservative Jews and conservative Christians and other conservative groups find education to be of utmost importance and lack of direction and drug use to be horrible transgressions would  translate the work similarly

tichure: in makes for an interesting paper

spring 1: so this is one of the ways to look at doing the paper

tichure: yes

tichure: and you can do more than one cultural perspective in each essay

tichure: since we party identified this is not about the author, we know that biographical is off the table.

tichure: We do know that historically, she's discussing what is happening to get her semi within the inner city, so historical would be appropriate but historical is only to give a statistical information that supports that her portrayal is accurate

tichure: dropout rates for inner-city youth

tichure: dropout rates for inner-city black youth

tichure: drug use for inner-city youth

tichure: life expectancy for inner-city youth

tichure: etc.

tichure: that would be historical

tichure: it does not carry with it any opinion

tichure: it simply connects facts to the work

tichure: you see how these critical perspectives apply in this particular case???

spring 1: yes

Peter: yes

Sage: yes

tichure: in this case, biographical is a bad choice but historical and several cultural criticisms would be appropriate

tichure: each cultural criticism is going to be its own paragraph

tichure: each cultural criticism is  going to require a secondary source that discusses how that your culture thinks and believes and feels

tichure: it is unlikely that that cultural criticism is going to discuss the story specifically

tichure: you would make those connections

tichure: everybody with me so far

Peter: yes, it seems more clear now

spring 1: y

tichure: excellent

tichure: as the author have a point here

tichure: does the author have a point here

tichure: is she trying to tell us something

tichure: or she merely trying to tell us that inner-city black kids are bad news

Sage: yes

Sage: whoops didnt mean to say yes to that

tichure: hahahaha

spring 1: yes i believes she  has a point

tichure: what is the point

tichure: what is her point

spring 1: i think it's laziness and lack of self discipline does not lead to a long and prosperous life

tichure: very good

Sage: she is saying tHAT THE SCENARIO that this kids were in in there life was not good, and influenced them badly to become what they did.

Sage: and what spring said

Sage: haha

tichure: hahahah

tichure: sage, is there any indication  that she is blaming the school system or society for their  situation

tichure: and you must stick to the poem

tichure: spring, who is the audience for that particular message

tichure: in other words, who DOESN'T seem to know this

Sage: yes* to the society and school question

tichure: sage, show me in the poem where she blames or mentions the school system or society for these people's choices

spring 1: youth

Sage: ii was never fond of the public school system in the US my self but

Sage: ohh

Sage: i guess i did not meant to say that she said it but merely meant it

tichure: i will never ask you your opinion sage

tichure: doesnt work that way

tichure: spring

tichure: which youth

Sage: alright

Peter: she never says or blames schools. its the youths selfish choice to do what they do. they have no reason or longing to do good in school. no incentive if they cant get to college anyhow.

tichure: very good Peter

tichure: which youth need to know this

Sage: aahh ok

tichure: which ones is she speaking to

Peter: black youth

tichure: that need to know that these kids are going to die because of their own choice

tichure: very good Peter

tichure: why would Gwendolyn Brooks care about them

Peter: because she was one

tichure: why would Gwendolen broke scared to tell these losers what they're doing wrong

tichure: exactly

Sage: that is her race and she tinks they could do better

tichure: Marxists criticism is a critical perspective that essentially says that an author has an ax to grind and very often they are PROPAGANDIZING by explaining something to an audience that does not seem to understand a particular idea

tichure: that is correct sage

tichure: from a Marxist perspective, she is talking to black youth and she's telling them that they are screwing up their lives even though they think that they are cool

tichure: she uses the first-person narrative and their slang and gathers them in by talking about the things that they consider cool in a way that seems positive and slowly brings them around to that inevitable demise

tichure: and the message to them is that they are destroying their lives

tichure: she does not discuss the horrible school system

tichure: she does not discuss the horrible effects of racism

tichure: because if she were to do that he would fall into the notion that they have someone else to blame

tichure: and while she knows that society has a lot of the impact on what happens to use in all kinds of cultures, that is not the point of this particular work

Sage: ohhh

tichure: the point would be lost if she allowed them to blame someone else

tichure: so she focuses on the kids because in this message is that kids who need to be changing

tichure: therefore she does not mention the crappy school system

tichure: she does not mention the racist environment

tichure: including politicians and cops

tichure: she mentions that at some point these people have to do something for themselves

tichure: and that their own choices will have negative consequences if their bad choices

tichure: who is she speaking to that agrees with her already

Peter: the reader

tichure: peter, again, which one

tichure: whenever you're doing this type of analysis, you must identify the audience SPECIFICALLY

tichure: otherwise the reader is black youth

tichure: and she is propagandizing them to change their attitudes

tichure: I'm looking for someone who AGREES with your point

tichure: that these kids are throwing their lives away

tichure: who agrees with her point

tichure: who is she speaking to that agrees with her point

Peter: shes trying to communicate this to whoever is reading. she wants to better the reader and make them aware of the black youth's pitfalls

tichure: peter,  don't do that

tichure: it's too broad

tichure: it gives you no way to research it in any meaningful way

tichure: the reason we chose black youth as the propagandized audience is because we can easily look up resources that explain how they think about the very things that are being portrayed their

tichure: we would know that gambling and drinking are cool

tichure: and that school is not favored by that particular group

tichure: if you tell me that the audiences EVERYBODY how do you apply any opinion

tichure: you can also not give me AMERICA as an answer because it is too broad and too diverse

tichure: which segment of society agrees with Gwendolyn Brooks that black youths are throwing their lives away with poor choices especially when it comes to drugs and education

tichure: in other words, who cares

Peter: conservatives?

spring 1: elders

tichure: very good  Peter

tichure: very good spring

tichure: in this case, Marxist criticism would say that Gwendolyn Brooks is PANDERING to an audience by telling them what they agree with. She essentially is  preaching to the choir in the sense that she tells them things that they agree with which validate their opinion

tichure: pandering and propagandizing are different in the sense of AUDIENCE

tichure: and therefore it is necessary that you identify the audience very specifically

tichure: the message is generally the same but specifically different

tichure: to the propagandized group, the message is usually CHANGE

tichure: to the pandered group, the message is usually YOU ARE CORRECT

tichure: pandering also is applied when a work panders to the more prurient interests of an audience

tichure: for example,

tichure: give me the standard requirements for a rap video

Peter: beat


tichure: here is a tame one

tichure: it's more than that here

tichure: it's more than that Peter

tichure: this has to do with making sure that the audience is truly catered to

tichure: so they'll keep coming back

tichure: and you identify the audience

tichure: and you identify what you're giving them

tichure: what you're pandering to

spring 1: women wearing practiculy nothing grinding on each other or the rapper themselves

tichure: very good springてカ I believe what you're talking about is sex

tichure: keep going

tichure: what else

tichure: especially, for example, gangster rap which would have something that this particular video does not

spring 1: flashy cars and jewelry

Sage: ha

Peter: the appearance of prosperity

spring 1: drugs alchol and all supposed life can bring

tichure: very good spring

tichure: very good Peter

tichure: very good spring again

tichure: who's the audience

tichure: who is the PRIMARY audience

tichure: male or female

tichure: young or old

Peter: young males

tichure: sex drugs and  prosperity

tichure: I'm shocked

spring 1: male of low economic value showing that this life can bring you to where you want

tichure: pandering also refers to the author's intentional use of specific devices to gather an audience and please them

tichure: sometime spring and sometimes the mail of extremely high economic status showing off what they have

tichure: because it has to do with power and prestige

spring 1: true

tichure: when you watch your favorite soap opera on television, who is the primary audience

tichure: Gray's anatomy

tichure: male or female

tichure: young or middle-aged

tichure: when elements make it appeal to that ticket or audience

tichure: to that particular audience

spring 1: females, both those who are at home with kids or retired

tichure: very good

tichure: when elements within that particular television show appeal to that group

tichure: how are men portrayed? How are women  portrayed? What kind of music is used?

tichure: what are the topics under discussion

tichure: is this type of formulaic standard that we did various types of music, television, movies and other programming specifically  designed for a specific demographic

tichure: Marxist criticism essentially says that pandering is useful and common because simply they are selling a product. They are not telling us about truth or reality or trying to make us better people. They are merely selling a commodity and they are making the commodity as appropriately attractive as possible

spring 1: this type of work is similar as the rap video but hidden in a different way. the soap is still selling sex, money as a means

tichure: of course

tichure: differ not against

tichure: different audience

tichure: different values

tichure: different product

tichure: same means

spring 1: y

tichure: Marxist criticism does not distinguish between good and bad. Marxist criticism is not about Marxism. Marxist criticism is about the notion that any work as a commodity and therefore is being used by the author either to tell you something you do not want to hear through PROPAGANDIZING or to give you what you want through PANDERING

spring 1: never looked at it that way before. very intresting

tichure: good lord, look at the time

Sage: i have to leave this discussion everyone, sorry.

tichure: I want you to choose your topic for your paper. If you done so, I want you to start your research. Keep in mind the unique used valid credible resources.

tichure: I do too sage

tichure: have a good week everybody. I'll see you here next week

spring 1: ok

Peter: very good, thanks for the great insight proffessor

Peter: good night

tichure: poof