INTRO and OWEN
Joined at 7:01 PM


tichure: 103


tichure: Still loading


Amy: Where is everyone?


sarah 1: Hello?


tichure: hey  sarahてカ still helping people get in


sarah 1: Okay


tichure: hey amy


tichure: still loading


tichure: first day is always the slowest


Amy: Hi, wasn't sure if I was in the right place


tichure: hahaha


tichure: I feel like that every day


Amy: yesterday I went to the wrong bio lab, duh!


Amy: It was completely the wrong day


tichure: been thereてカ done that


tichure: I'm sure was a growth experience


Amy: the teacher was cool and let me stay, i was glad because it was a 7-10pm class


tichure: see, you found something good


Amy: Hi sarah


sarah 1: Hello. Never chatted before. Kinda cool


Amy: walcome, I took Art 100 and chatting on line was fun


Amy: oops welcome


sarah 1: I'm always up for learning something new! Kinda like facebook chatting


sarah 1: I think it'll be really different tho when there are alot of people at once


Amy: my daughters are super fast at keyboarding, because they caht with friends on skype


Amy: oops chat, I'm not as good as them


sarah 1: I took typing and am pretty fast too. I like it so that's another reason this is cool


Amy: Is this your first semester at Citrus?


sarah 1: no. I graduated in June but need a few more classes to transfer


Amy: Where are you transferring to?


sarah 1: Cal Poly Pomona


Amy: I'm hoping to transfer ther too, or maybe fullerton. I need to stay close to home.


sarah 1: yeah, it's not worth it to go far when there are so many schools right here


sarah 1: Did you read the chat archive?


Amy: yes


sarah 1: I was surprised that it said there were only a couple tests and a few papers. When I looked at the syllabus, it looked like alot more


tichure: well let's talk about it now


Amy: There you are


tichure: do you have any questions


tichure: I'm going to explain essentially how the class works and then we'll get to some actual material


tichure: but for now, ask in case there's something I can answer briefly


sarah 1: So the reading for the first week is supposed to be done by today or by when?


tichure: all assigned readings for any week are due essentially at the beginning of the week but certainly by chat


tichure: that way when we're discussing things you're not trying to read while we are discussing it


sarah 1: Wow! That's alot to absorb in two days. I think next week will be easier


tichure: of courseてカ also, there's really not that much to read and in reality, by the time I get done explaining how the class works, we will have very little time to cover anything other than a single poem


Amy: I read a couple of the poems from the book in the library, but haven't bought the book yet.


tichure: that's okay Amyてカ as long as you can keep up until you  finally get your book that's fine


Amy: I mostly read everything in CANVAS and on your site, very thorough


tichure: I will post the due date on CANVAS Sarah


tichure: excellent Amy


sarah 1: So our current focus is the weekly reading, the first paper, and the other essay we signed up for on the discussion board?


sarah 1: Anything else?


tichure: well, you also have the response portion of your grade


tichure: but how about I give  an overview and touch on each of the things individually so that I can explain how they are similar and different from each other


sarah 1: please do. I feel like I'm in a whirlwind


tichure: hahhaah


tichure: than you must be in the right place


Amy: I had never heard of MLA, but researched it today and feel I will be able to conquer it.


tichure: excellent Amyてカ you'll see that formatting on the other material, especially the archive materialてカ on my website


tichure: what is going to follow is some information that I will post fairly rapidly. If you have any questions at some point, simply post your question


tichure: This course is a university level composition course.  You will be required to read and analyze a series of literary works.  In order to succeed, you will need to pay attention to deadlines and to stay up with the reading and writing assignments.  Everything that you do for me will be an essay.  We will have a series at of written research papers as well as a series and written tests.  There will also be a Duiscussion Group assignment.  All of this will be explained tonight.


tichure: there is also your participation grade, which is a combination of RESPONSES to the readings


sarah 1: If nobody else joins, will we end up changing the time?


tichure: your papers, your tests and your DISCUSSION GROUP assignment are going to be research... therefore you're going to be telling me, especially in DISCUSSION GROUP  assignment which will be dry factual research, the information without telling me what you think about it


Amy: should all the responses be between 3-5 paragraphs?


tichure: yes


tichure: no Sarah


tichure: it varies from week to week, anywhere between one or two people to as many as 15


tichure: and the bottom line is even if I'm only talking to one person, that information will be read by most everybody else in the class and so it's important share the information


Amy: Have you ever had 0


tichure: yes Amyてカ and then what I do is I post an archive that carries the information that we would've discussed in person


tichure: for some reason around holidays and other difficult times, like Halloween, there tends to be vacancy


tichure: There will be two papers . Each paper will be posted on CANVAS under the title paper one, paper two etc.  each will have its own assignment and its own due date.   The first paper assignment is posted already on CANVAS.  I will post the due date when I see how the class is progressing.  We will discuss the material for papers generally in class during the course of the semester, but you are not limited to what we discussed in class and certainly I want to see some original scholarship.  You'll have a chance to rewrite the two papers.  That means that you must get your paper into to me on-time, and when I say that they are ready to be retrieved from the testing center, you must pick it up, revise it and get it back to me.


tichure: the idea is that writing is the process.  I'm going to lead you through discussions in which we discuss the major points to be discussed or to be pointed out in your paper, but essentially you're going to have to create paper on your own and when you do, there may be some things that you're missing or some ways that you go off on a tangent... my response to you will help you to fine tune that process


Amy: When you say we may revise two papers, does that include a test paper?


tichure: is everybody clear so far


tichure: that is exactly correct Amy


tichure: you revise the first paper


tichure: and you get to have a makeup for the first test


sarah 1: So some papers we won't revise?


Amy: yes, clear


tichure: there is only one other paperてカ the final paper and there's not enough time for revision


tichure: keep in mind also that you get to revise your message board assignment


Amy: will any other edition of the text work for this class?


tichure: and your responses if it really needs it


Amy: sweet


tichure: yes Amyてカ make sure that you find the topics by looking at an index or the table of contents


tichure: CHAT
 Chat is once a week.  It will be held every Wednesday from seven to 9 p.m. unless I tell you differently.  You must attend the chat regularly for the participation credit or you must read the archives on the web site.  The purpose of the chat realm is to discuss the material under discussion.  That means that you must arrive having pre-read the story or other literature assigned for that particular week as well as the rhetoric. 

 I will then lead a discussion in which you are expected  to respond to the questions and prompts that I ask.  Keep in mind that this is not a free-for-all and it is not designed to allow you to pontificate on your ideas about life.  Instead, we are analyzing literature in some very strict guidelines and we will stick to those guidelines.


tichure: DISCUSSION GROUP 
One of the most confusing aspects for anybody in this class is the discussion group assignment.  In this class, you are to choose a topic that you alone will research and present in short essay form on CANVAS.  There are three different discussion groups.  You are only required to join one discussion group.  Look at the ASSIGNMENT message in that discussion group and then read all of the postings by students.  てョ
You are to choose a topic from the ASSIGNMENT message that has not been already chosen by another student.  You will look for a due date posted by me, you will post your researched information on CANVAS in that folder in three - 5 paragraphs.  When you have chosen your topic, post a message with that topic as the title of the message so everyone knows that topic has been chosen

The responses are also on the message board. It is a major aspect of your grade in terms of participation. The responses are essentially a concise 3 to 5 paragraph analysis of a work that is essentially a response to the questions that I pose in the assignment for each group. Using the primary texts to support your analysis is useful and helpful, as it not only makes a better essay, but it also will be  and good practice for papers and tests


tichure: Good so far?


Amy: yes


tichure: Also, I use Dragon speak... that means I talk and it  types for me.  Thus there will be typos etc.  When I see them after posting a message, I will follow with a correction followed by the word SIGH.  If there's something that you do not understand, ask me.


Amy: cool


sarah 1: got it


tichure: TESTS
 There will be two tests.  Tests will be given in the testing center.  You'll usually have a week in advance notice and then you will show up at the testing center with your book, a blue book and a pen. You will be given 80 minutes to complete five paragraphs on the topic that you will know in advance.  There are no surprise quizzes.


Amy: sounds fair


tichure: No questions?


tichure: 2 papers


tichure: 2 tests


tichure: 1 discussion group posting


tichure: 2て5 RESPONSE postings


Amy: will the DISCUSSION GROUP discussions be done here on this site?


tichure: that is the class


tichure: no Amyてカ on CANVAS


Amy: ok


tichure: have you chosen a topic for the discussion group


tichure: either poetry, drama or fiction


sarah 1: I got poetry. I know it's due first so I'll have to hustle


Amy: Drama, post WWII US economics?


tichure: did you choose the particular topic Sarah


tichure: excellent Amyてカ


sarah 1: yes, but can't recall what it was! lol


tichure: essentially figure that the first groupてカ the poetry group will be due around week 2, the drama group around week 3 and the literature group by week 5


tichure: hahha


tichure: as long as you posted it Sarah you're fine


Amy: I was surprised how fast students were choosing


sarah 1: Sorry. Did u say you will help us revise that one as well?


tichure: I will allow you to revise that one sarah


sarah 1: Will I get ur feedback or just revise it myself


sarah 1: ?


Amy: Is the Writing Cafe on campus new this year?


sarah 1: What's that?


tichure: yes Sarah, you will get plenty of feedback from me


sarah 1: Good! I will NEED it


tichure: yes Amyてカ but it's not associated with this class specificallyてカ but you are certainly welcome to go in there and show them what you're working on and hopefully they will help you


tichure: make better work


tichure: any other questions about the way the class works


Amy: I think I'm good for now


tichure: are you ready for some actual class content?


sarah 1: UUuuummmm....okay


Amy: ok


tichure: Did both of you see the posting for the first paper


Amy: yes


sarah 1:the first draft one?  yes


tichure: have you chosen something\


Amy: not yet


sarah 1: Lots of good ones, but not yet


sarah 1: Do we have to reserve one?


tichure: no Sarahてカ everybody could do the same one if they wantてカ but it helps in our discussion of what the first papers going to be if you already know what you're talking about


tichure: but let me give you some background information first


tichure: This is a university level literature analysis course.  In this class, we will be reading a series of literary works in analyzing them from the literary perspective.  At no time are you to refer to yourself personally.  At no time are you to explain something from your personal perspective.  Instead, all responses will be based on informed researched information gathered by you and presented in a correct collegiate essay form.  To that end, we will be using primary and secondary sources.  More on that later.  We will be using specific literary terms.  In fact, when you are given an assignment, you will be given specific literary perspective that you must take in your essay.  Because literature is an art, there are many ways to interpret it.


tichure: That means there are many correct answers.  That also means there are many more incorrect answers.  In order to have a correct answer, your response must be supportable from the aspect of the critical analytical tool you're using as well as supported in the text itself.  In other words, you cannot change a story or add anything to it in order to make it fit what you would like to be.


tichure: Any time you use another author's words or concepts, either from the primary text or from other resources, you must put the words you used in quotation marks and cite appropriately.  you would have learned this in English 101.  At no time will you submit a paper to me that does not have correctly quoted and cited text.


tichure: okay so far?


sarah 1: ok


tichure: the literary analysis that you did in English 101 specifically worked on literary terms... symbolism, irony, theme and the like.  That type of literary analysis is important, but it is the starting point.  There are many ways to analyze literature, and the different viewpoints you may approach a work through change the meaning.  We will be looking through those various viewpoints.  Please keep this in mind: there will be critical analyses that you agree with and that seem to make a great deal of sense.  There will be others that do not make a great deal of sense or that you disagree with outright.  That is immaterial to me.  Your job is to be able to identify, understand, and utilize each one of the literary critical perspectives that are presented in this class.  Failure to do so will severely hinder your grade.


Amy: ok


tichure: To that end, let's discuss a couple critical perspectives to get you started.  The first is formalist criticism.  If you took English 101 at this Institution, you likely did mostly formalist criticism.  It focuses on the basic literary elements and ignores any other aspects outside of the work itself.  The work essentially is what is found on the page.  We ignore when he was written and who wrote it.  The only focus on the basic symbols and irony and conflict.  Let's start with formalist criticism . Let's look at


tichure: hmmm...


tichure: Wilfred  owenてカ disabled


tichure: read the poem and let me know when you're ready


Amy: I read it earlier, but do not have it in front of me to refer to


tichure: find it online Amy


Amy: ok


sarah 1: ok


Amy: got it


tichure: what essentially is the poem about


Amy: a man in a wheel chair alone with his thoughts


sarah 1: I think it's about an old man who lost his legs in WWII and is remembering playing soccer and his previous life. Now he is in an institution waiting for them to take him inside to bed


tichure: how are we supposed to feel about the character


sarah 1: sorry for him


tichure: why


tichure: what tells you to feel that way


tichure: how does the author get you to that emotional state


tichure: for things I want you to consider for everything that we readてカ


sarah 1: the language


tichure: Speaker: not the author, the speaker or speakers are the narrative voice for any work including poetry fiction and drama. The speaker may embody a gender, and age, and era, an attitude or something along those lines.


tichure: Audience / audiencesてカ there are always specific audiences for work designated either by language or content. The answer てeverybodyて is not a good answer when asked about the audience for a work is


tichure: method: the method that an author uses may varyてカ obviously storytelling is important in drama and literature/fiction as well as in some poetry, but certainly rhyme, rhythm and meter etc. are important in poetry


tichure: message: what is the authors point? How do you knowてカ


tichure: Sarah, what specific languageてカ in other words what method


Amy: pity?


sarah 1: EX: He "shivered" and "voices rang saddening like a hymn" and "sleep had mothered them from him". All these evoke loneliness


tichure: very good sarah


tichure: other elements?


sarah 1: I get a "has been" feeling like his time is over and he is forgotten


sarah 1: Maybe like a sad veteran


sarah 1: Also like he was tricked.'


tichure: very good Sarah


tichure: trick how?


sarah 1: He was told about looking good and pleasing a girl. He didn't think of the consequences. "Germans he scarcely thought of"


sarah 1: "And no fear Of Fear came yet."


tichure: what was his enticement to get into war


tichure: what was his motivation


sarah 1: "to plese his Meg"


tichure: translate that Sarah


tichure: Amy, you said pity and what I'm looking for is specific examples


sarah 1: For the glory and to be a hero


tichure: is that necessarily the right reason Sarah


sarah 1: I'm not supposed to judge right?


tichure: in other words, is this character completely innocent or did someone else pray on a certain form of greed


Amy: ok


tichure: you may judge if that's where the authors taking you


tichure: for example, you have already judged if you feel sorry for this guy. If the author made you feel that way, the author has been effective


sarah 1: OH, well he's obviously portrayed as the victim


sarah 1: Naive victim


tichure: is he entirely innocent


sarah 1: I feel like he's portrayed as having been taken advantage of in his naive youth.


tichure: Theoretically and ideally, and of course taking the highest road possible, why should someone choose to go to war?


tichure: because naive youths are drawn by what Sarah


sarah 1: Fame, Fortune, Glory?


tichure: very good if those are what naive youths are drawn to


tichure: why SHOULD someone be going to war?


sarah 1: Power?


tichure: ideally


sarah 1: To serve their country and to keep our freedom?


tichure: good  answer, Sarah


tichure: do we get that impression from this particular character


sarah 1: Because they need money for school? lololol


tichure: hahahaha


sarah 1: nope


tichure: so is our character completely innocent\


sarah 1: He hadn't thought it through and it said "smilingly they wrote his lie"


tichure: or was he taken advantage of because we understand the  ulterior motives of young men


tichure: very good


sarah 1: taken advantage of


tichure: so the author does tell us that this guy realizes his mistake


sarah 1: later of course when he's older and wiser


tichure: And more importantly, the narrator tells  us the characters mistake


sarah 1: Well, I guess it doesn't really say he realizes his mistake if he's not the speaker


tichure: =the narrator can tell us that Sarah


tichure: do we get the impression that the characterてカ the soldierてカ realizes his mistake


sarah 1: I guess because he feels sorry for himself


sarah 1: He still blames it on them tho


tichure: absolutely


tichure: in an ideal situation, how are soldiers portrayed? Kind of values do they have? The character do they have?


sarah 1: Ideally they are the best of the best; trained to be so


sarah 1: They are portrayed as heroes


tichure: How is this author portraying soldiers?


tichure: Very good Sarah


sarah 1: as dummies! lol


tichure: hahahaha


tichure: well


tichure: let's step back just a little bit


tichure: if the author makes it clear that this guy's motivation for going into war was that essentially he would be popular with women, are we really that sympathetic with his plight when his gamble does not pay off the way he intended and in fact in an ironic twist makes him even more unappealing than he apparently already was before he went


sarah 1: I think that I would feel like all young guys are naive in the same way.


sarah 1: I would still feel sorry for him


tichure: on understand your point Sarah, but is that what the author wants you to do


sarah 1: I guess it depends on the reader's view of 19 yr olds


tichure: and I'm not saying that he doesn't


tichure: hahaha


tichure: absolutely


tichure: one of the things that we're looking for when were analyzing this work is the way the author weights  the information one way or another to get us to feel one thing or another about a character.


tichure: Do you think this author is for or against war generally


tichure: according to the poem


sarah 1: I guess I had no feeling that the author wanted us to see it as his "payback"  I think the author is maybe against war


sarah 1: It goes back to whose fault it is tho


tichure: Sarah, after looking at it these past few minutes do you get the distinct impression that the author does want us to see the irony of a person who goes into something expecting to be rewarded and repaid with attractiveness and is actually punished with even more unattractiveness than he had before


sarah 1: ok


tichure: absolutely Sarahてカ would a more mature person be duped into thinking that simply becoming a soldier is going to make a person a chick magnet


sarah 1: NO!


tichure: would a mature person to ignore the possibility or even likelihood that injury and/or death may be a result of that choice?


sarah 1: no


sarah 1: Amy?


tichure: Once we look at the things that the author has given us, after a while we are drawn, almost without choice where the authors taking us


tichure: Amy is mesmerized by our fascinating conversation and is  furiously writing notes


sarah 1: hahahahhaaaaa


tichure: Sarah do me a favorてカ open a book with Web browser and find out something about Wilfred Owen


tichure: would you expect that this author has fought in war?


sarah 1: yes


tichure: Would you expect that this author would have volunteered for war?


sarah 1: yes


tichure: Would you expect that this author has had a good experience in war?


sarah 1: no.


tichure: Find something about Wilfred Owen and let's see what sticks


Amy: seriously, I'm learning a lot.


tichure: biographical criticism is a critical perspective that essentially says that a work is reflection of the author's specific experience  or observation. Biographical experiences prior to the writing of the work can be used as evidence or support in terms of translating the work into a specific meaning.


tichure: hahhaa


tichure: I'm glad to hear that Amyてカ feel free to jump in anytime


tichure: we don't bite that much


tichure: wellてカ maybe a little


sarah 1: So his death was ironic for sure


tichure: what do we know about Wilfred Owen?


tichure: Explain Sarah


tichure: did this guy go to war?


tichure: Did this guy volunteer for war?


sarah 1: He died seven days before the war ended. Barely fought


sarah 1: yes


tichure: Hello Sandyてカ we are discussing  Wilfred Owen's disabled


tichure: was Wilfred Owen likely entering the service in order to impress the ladies?


sandi86 1: hi guys off topic, but is this for eiland's english 103


tichure: Yes Sandy


sandi86 1: ok thanks sorry i joined late.


tichure: I understandてカ find the poem and read it quicklyてカ it's not long


sarah 1: It says he was already a successful techer so probably not


sarah 1: He probably met a lot of guys like that tho


tichure: keep reading the biography Sarahてカ there's something else about Wilfred Owen that might be telling about whether or not he might've been trying to impress the ladies


tichure: in the meantime,


tichure: when was this poem written


Amy: 1917


tichure: which war is he talking about then


tichure: Sarahてカ any luck on the girl aspect for  Wilfred Owen


tichure: not a history class folks, but you do need to know some historyてカ if you don't know, do a Google search and put in the word WAR along with the date and see what you get


sandi86 1: WWI i believe


tichure: you believe correctly sandy


sarah 1: His family was having financial woes. That's all I found so far


tichure: what elements of this story would coincide with the notion that this is World War I and 1917 as opposed to say, a  Middle Eastern War and the 2000s


tichure: Sarah, see if you find anything about hisてカ sayてカ sexual orientation


Amy: was he in love with sassoon, a man


tichure: hahaha


tichure: if that is the case, where would he get the story about people joining war in order to impress the girls


tichure: would he have experienced people having amputations


tichure: would he have experienced people realizing that they've made some kind of fundamental mistake


tichure: did Wilfred Owen spent any time in the hospital while he was in war


tichure: biographical criticism essentially says that by looking at the author's own experiences we can understand where they got the imagery, the narrative or the information that is in their work.


tichure: Likewise, historical criticism places to work in the context of the era in which it was written.  for example, if someone were a double amputee today, what would be their prospects? If someone were a double amputee in 1917, what would be his prospects, and which one is a better situation?


sarah 1: yes, he met a lot of soldiers at the hospital where he was sent for shell shock


tichure: Very good


tichure: by understanding his biography, does it make sense as to where he got his imagery and information


sarah 1: yes


tichure: from a historical perspective do we get the understanding why this person who has no legs would be so much in despair


tichure: are there any prosthetics that would help him be mobile in any real way


tichure: to get a real job


tichure: and keep in mind this is before things like Social Security and disability insurance


sandi86 1: no


tichure: we will pick this up next week. I want you to read through all of the poems of week one and week twoてカ we will take a couple of those and run through these critical perspectives during chat


tichure: any questions


tichure: we will talk about paper one next week as well


sarah 1: no


sarah 1: ok


sandi86 1: ok thanks


tichure: thank you for hanging out and I'll see you next week


Amy: bye


tichure: if you have any questions during the week, send me an e-mail.


tichure: Stay in touch


tichure: your welcome Sandy


tichure: by Amy


sarah 1: see ya! THis was fun thanks!


tichure: by Sarah


tichure: you're welcome


tichure: poof