INTRO and OWEN Joined at 7:01 PM tichure: 103 tichure: Still loading Amy: Where is everyone? sarah 1: Hello? tichure: hey sarah‚Ķ still helping people get in sarah 1: Okay tichure: hey amy tichure: still loading tichure: first day is always the slowest Amy: Hi, wasn't sure if I was in the right place tichure: hahaha tichure: I feel like that every day Amy: yesterday I went to the wrong bio lab, duh! Amy: It was completely the wrong day tichure: been there‚Ķ done that tichure: I'm sure was a growth experience Amy: the teacher was cool and let me stay, i was glad because it was a 7-10pm class tichure: see, you found something good Amy: Hi sarah sarah 1: Hello. Never chatted before. Kinda cool Amy: walcome, I took Art 100 and chatting on line was fun Amy: oops welcome sarah 1: I'm always up for learning something new! Kinda like facebook chatting sarah 1: I think it'll be really different tho when there are alot of people at once Amy: my daughters are super fast at keyboarding, because they caht with friends on skype Amy: oops chat, I'm not as good as them sarah 1: I took typing and am pretty fast too. I like it so that's another reason this is cool Amy: Is this your first semester at Citrus? sarah 1: no. I graduated in June but need a few more classes to transfer Amy: Where are you transferring to? sarah 1: Cal Poly Pomona Amy: I'm hoping to transfer ther too, or maybe fullerton. I need to stay close to home. sarah 1: yeah, it's not worth it to go far when there are so many schools right here sarah 1: Did you read the chat archive? Amy: yes sarah 1: I was surprised that it said there were only a test and a few papers. When I looked at the syllabus, it looked like a lot more tichure: well let's talk about it now Amy: There you are tichure: do you have any questions tichure: I'm going to explain essentially how the class works and then we'll get to some actual material tichure: but for now, ask in case there's something I can answer briefly sarah 1: So the reading for the first week is supposed to be done by today or by when? tichure: all assigned readings for any week are due essentially at the beginning of the week but certainly by chat tichure: that way when we're discussing things you're not trying to read while we are discussing it sarah 1: Wow! That's alot to absorb in two days. I think next week will be easier tichure: of course‚Ķ also, there's really not that much to read and in reality, by the time I get done explaining how the class works, we will have very little time to cover anything other than a single poem Amy: I read a couple of the poems from the book in the library, but haven't bought the book yet. tichure: that's okay Amy‚Ķ as long as you can keep up until you finally get your book that's fine Amy: I mostly read everything in CANVAS and on your site, very thorough tichure: I will post the due date on CANVAS Sarah tichure: excellent Amy sarah 1: Anything else? tichure: well, you also have the response portion of your grade tichure: but how about I give an overview and touch on each of the things individually so that I can explain how they are similar and different from each other sarah 1: please do. I feel like I'm in a whirlwind tichure: hahhaah tichure: than you must be in the right place Amy: I had never heard of MLA, but researched it today and feel I will be able to conquer it. tichure: excellent Amy‚Ķ you'll see that formatting on the other material, especially the archive material‚Ķ on my website tichure: what is going to follow is some information that I will post fairly rapidly. If you have any questions at some point, simply post your question tichure: This course is a university level composition course. You will be required to read and analyze a series of literary works. In order to succeed, you will need to pay attention to deadlines and to stay up with the reading and writing assignments. Everything that you do for me will be an essay. We will have a series of written research papers as well as a written test. tichure: there is also your participation grade, which is a combination of RESPONSES to the readings sarah 1: If nobody else joins, will we end up changing the time? Amy: should all the responses be between 3-5 paragraphs? tichure: yes tichure: no Sarah tichure: it varies from week to week, anywhere between one or two people to as many as 15 tichure: and the bottom line is even if I'm only talking to one person, that information will be read by most everybody else in the class and so it's important share the information Amy: Have you ever had 0 tichure: yes Amy‚Ķ and then what I do is I post an archive that carries the information that we would've discussed in person tichure: for some reason around holidays and other difficult times, like Halloween, there tends to be vacancy tichure: There will be two papers . Each paper will be posted on CANVAS under the title paper one, paper two etc. each will have its own assignment and its own due date. The first paper assignment is posted already on CANVAS. I will post the due date when I see how the class is progressing. We will discuss the material for papers generally in class during the course of the semester, but you are not limited to what we discussed in class and certainly I want to see some original scholarship. You'll have a chance to rewrite the two papers. That means that you must get your paper into to me on-time, and i respond by email, you must pick it up, revise it and get it back to me. tichure: the idea is that writing is the process. I'm going to lead you through discussions in which we discuss the major points to be discussed or to be pointed out in your paper, but essentially you're going to have to create paper on your own and when you do, there may be some things that you're missing or some ways that you go off on a tangent... my response to you will help you to fine tune that process Amy: When you say we may revise two papers, does that include a test paper? tichure: is everybody clear so far tichure: that is exactly correct Amy tichure: you revise the first paper tichure: and you get to have a makeup for the first test sarah 1: So some papers we won't revise? Amy: yes, clear tichure: there is only one other paper‚Ķ the final paper and there's not enough time for revision Amy: will any other edition of the text work for this class? tichure: and your responses if it really needs it Amy: sweet tichure: yes Amy‚Ķ make sure that you find the topics by looking at an index or the table of contents tichure: CHAT Chat is once a week. It will be held every Wednesday from seven to 9 p.m. unless I tell you differently. You must attend the chat regularly for the participation credit or you must read the archives on the web site. The purpose of the chat realm is to discuss the material under discussion. That means that you must arrive having pre-read the story or other literature assigned for that particular week as well as the rhetoric. I will then lead a discussion in which you are expected to respond to the questions and prompts that I ask. Keep in mind that this is not a free-for-all and it is not designed to allow you to pontificate on your ideas about life. Instead, we are analyzing literature in some very strict guidelines and we will stick to those guidelines. The responses are also on Canvas. It is a major aspect of your grade in terms of participation. The responses are essentially a concise 3 to 5 paragraph analysis of a work that is essentially a response to the questions that I pose in the assignment. Using the primary and secondary texts to support your analysis is useful and helpful, as it not only makes a better essay, but it also will be and good practice for papers and test tichure: Good so far? Amy: yes tichure: Also, I use Dragon speak... that means I talk and it types for me. Thus there will be typos etc. When I see them after posting a message, I will follow with a correction followed by the word SIGH. If there's something that you do not understand, ask me. Amy: cool sarah 1: got it tichure: TEST There will be two test opportunities. Tests will be given in the testing center. You'll usually have a week in advance notice and then you will show up at the testing center with your primary source and your research, both printed out, a blue book and a pen. You will be given 80 minutes to complete five paragraphs on the topic that you will know in advance. There are no surprise quizzes. Amy: sounds fair tichure: No questions? tichure: 2 papers tichure: 1 test tichure: 2 - 5 RESPONSE postings tichure: no Amy‚ on CANVAS Amy: ok Amy: Is the Writing Center on campus new? sarah 1: What's that? tichure: yes Sarah, you will get plenty of feedback from me sarah 1: Good! I will NEED it tichure: it's been around a while in some form or another Amy‚ but it's not associated with this class specifically‚ but you are certainly welcome to go in there and show them what you're working on and hopefully they will help you tichure: make better work tichure: any other questions about the way the class works Amy: I think I'm good for now tichure: are you ready for some actual class content? sarah 1: UUuuummmm....okay Amy: ok tichure: Did both of you see the posting for the first paper Amy: yes sarah 1:the first draft one? yes tichure: have you chosen something\ Amy: not yet sarah 1: Lots of good ones, but not yet sarah 1: Do we have to reserve one? tichure: no Sarah‚Ķ everybody could do the same one if they want‚Ķ but it helps in our discussion of what the first papers going to be if you already know what you're talking about tichure: but let me give you some background information first tichure: This is a university level literature analysis course. In this class, we will be reading a series of literary works in analyzing them from the literary perspective. At no time are you to refer to yourself personally. At no time are you to explain something from your personal perspective. Instead, all responses will be based on informed researched information gathered by you and presented in a correct collegiate essay form. To that end, we will be using primary and secondary sources. More on that later. We will be using specific literary terms. In fact, when you are given an assignment, you will be given specific literary perspective that you must take in your essay. Because literature is an art, there are many ways to interpret it. tichure: That means there are many correct answers. That also means there are many more incorrect answers. In order to have a correct answer, your response must be supportable from the aspect of the critical analytical tool you're using as well as supported in the text itself. In other words, you cannot change a story or add anything to it in order to make it fit what you would like to be. tichure: Any time you use another author's words or concepts, either from the primary text or from other resources, you must put the words you used in quotation marks and cite appropriately. you would have learned this in English 101. At no time will you submit a paper to me that does not have correctly quoted and cited text. tichure: okay so far? sarah 1: ok tichure: the literary analysis that you did in English 101 specifically worked on literary terms... symbolism, irony, theme and the like. That type of literary analysis is important, but it is the starting point. There are many ways to analyze literature, and the different viewpoints you may approach a work through change the meaning. We will be looking through those various viewpoints. Please keep this in mind: there will be critical analyses that you agree with and that seem to make a great deal of sense. There will be others that do not make a great deal of sense or that you disagree with outright. That is immaterial to me. Your job is to be able to identify, understand, and utilize each one of the literary critical perspectives that are presented in this class. Failure to do so will severely hinder your grade. Amy: ok tichure: To that end, let's discuss a couple critical perspectives to get you started. The first is formalist criticism. If you took English 101 at this Institution, you likely did mostly formalist criticism. It focuses on the basic literary elements and ignores any other aspects outside of the work itself. The work essentially is what is found on the page. We ignore when he was written and who wrote it. The only focus on the basic symbols and irony and conflict. Let's start with formalist criticism . Let's look at tichure: hmmm... tichure: Wilfred owen‚Ķ disabled tichure: read the poem and let me know when you're ready Amy: I read it earlier, but do not have it in front of me to refer to tichure: find it online Amy Amy: ok sarah 1: ok Amy: got it tichure: what essentially is the poem about Amy: a man in a wheel chair alone with his thoughts sarah 1: I think it's about an old man who lost his legs in WWII and is remembering playing soccer and his previous life. Now he is in an institution waiting for them to take him inside to bed tichure: how are we supposed to feel about the character sarah 1: sorry for him tichure: why tichure: what tells you to feel that way tichure: how does the author get you to that emotional state tichure: for things I want you to consider for everything that we read‚Ķ sarah 1: the language tichure: Speaker: not the author, the speaker or speakers are the narrative voice for any work including poetry fiction and drama. The speaker may embody a gender, and age, and era, an attitude or something along those lines. tichure: Audience / audiences‚Ķ there are always specific audiences for work designated either by language or content. The answer ‚Äúeverybody‚Äù is not a good answer when asked about the audience for a work is tichure: method: the method that an author uses may vary‚Ķ obviously storytelling is important in drama and literature/fiction as well as in some poetry, but certainly rhyme, rhythm and meter etc. are important in poetry tichure: message: what is the authors point? How do you know‚Ķ tichure: Sarah, what specific language‚Ķ in other words what method Amy: pity? sarah 1: EX: He "shivered" and "voices rang saddening like a hymn" and "sleep had mothered them from him". All these evoke loneliness tichure: very good sarah tichure: other elements? sarah 1: I get a "has been" feeling like his time is over and he is forgotten sarah 1: Maybe like a sad veteran sarah 1: Also like he was tricked.' tichure: very good Sarah tichure: trick how? sarah 1: He was told about looking good and pleasing a girl. He didn't think of the consequences. "Germans he scarcely thought of" sarah 1: "And no fear Of Fear came yet." tichure: what was his enticement to get into war tichure: what was his motivation sarah 1: "to plese his Meg" tichure: translate that Sarah tichure: Amy, you said pity and what I'm looking for is specific examples sarah 1: For the glory and to be a hero tichure: is that necessarily the right reason Sarah sarah 1: I'm not supposed to judge right? tichure: in other words, is this character completely innocent or did someone else pray on a certain form of greed Amy: ok tichure: you may judge if that's where the authors taking you tichure: for example, you have already judged if you feel sorry for this guy. If the author made you feel that way, the author has been effective sarah 1: OH, well he's obviously portrayed as the victim sarah 1: Naive victim tichure: is he entirely innocent sarah 1: I feel like he's portrayed as having been taken advantage of in his naive youth. tichure: Theoretically and ideally, and of course taking the highest road possible, why should someone choose to go to war? tichure: because naive youths are drawn by what Sarah sarah 1: Fame, Fortune, Glory? tichure: very good if those are what naive youths are drawn to tichure: why SHOULD someone be going to war? sarah 1: Power? tichure: ideally sarah 1: To serve their country and to keep our freedom? tichure: good answer, Sarah tichure: do we get that impression from this particular character sarah 1: Because they need money for school? lololol tichure: hahahaha sarah 1: nope tichure: so is our character completely innocent\ sarah 1: He hadn't thought it through and it said "smilingly they wrote his lie" tichure: or was he taken advantage of because we understand the ulterior motives of young men tichure: very good sarah 1: taken advantage of tichure: so the author does tell us that this guy realizes his mistake sarah 1: later of course when he's older and wiser tichure: And more importantly, the narrator tells us the characters mistake sarah 1: Well, I guess it doesn't really say he realizes his mistake if he's not the speaker tichure: =the narrator can tell us that Sarah tichure: do we get the impression that the character‚Ķ the soldier‚Ķ realizes his mistake sarah 1: I guess because he feels sorry for himself sarah 1: He still blames it on them tho tichure: absolutely tichure: in an ideal situation, how are soldiers portrayed? Kind of values do they have? The character do they have? sarah 1: Ideally they are the best of the best; trained to be so sarah 1: They are portrayed as heroes tichure: How is this author portraying soldiers? tichure: Very good Sarah sarah 1: as dummies! lol tichure: hahahaha tichure: well tichure: let's step back just a little bit tichure: if the author makes it clear that this guy's motivation for going into war was that essentially he would be popular with women, are we really that sympathetic with his plight when his gamble does not pay off the way he intended and in fact in an ironic twist makes him even more unappealing than he apparently already was before he went sarah 1: I think that I would feel like all young guys are naive in the same way. sarah 1: I would still feel sorry for him tichure: on understand your point Sarah, but is that what the author wants you to do sarah 1: I guess it depends on the reader's view of 19 yr olds tichure: and I'm not saying that he doesn't tichure: hahaha tichure: absolutely tichure: one of the things that we're looking for when were analyzing this work is the way the author weights the information one way or another to get us to feel one thing or another about a character. tichure: Do you think this author is for or against war generally tichure: according to the poem sarah 1: I guess I had no feeling that the author wanted us to see it as his "payback" I think the author is maybe against war sarah 1: It goes back to whose fault it is tho tichure: Sarah, after looking at it these past few minutes do you get the distinct impression that the author does want us to see the irony of a person who goes into something expecting to be rewarded and repaid with attractiveness and is actually punished with even more unattractiveness than he had before sarah 1: ok tichure: absolutely Sarah‚Ķ would a more mature person be duped into thinking that simply becoming a soldier is going to make a person a chick magnet sarah 1: NO! tichure: would a mature person to ignore the possibility or even likelihood that injury and/or death may be a result of that choice? sarah 1: no sarah 1: Amy? tichure: Once we look at the things that the author has given us, after a while we are drawn, almost without choice where the authors taking us tichure: Amy is mesmerized by our fascinating conversation and is furiously writing notes sarah 1: hahahahhaaaaa tichure: Sarah do me a favor‚Ķ open a book with Web browser and find out something about Wilfred Owen tichure: would you expect that this author has fought in war? sarah 1: yes tichure: Would you expect that this author would have volunteered for war? sarah 1: yes tichure: Would you expect that this author has had a good experience in war? sarah 1: no. tichure: Find something about Wilfred Owen and let's see what sticks Amy: seriously, I'm learning a lot. tichure: biographical criticism is a critical perspective that essentially says that a work is reflection of the author's specific experience or observation. Biographical experiences prior to the writing of the work can be used as evidence or support in terms of translating the work into a specific meaning. tichure: hahhaa tichure: I'm glad to hear that Amy‚Ķ feel free to jump in anytime tichure: we don't bite that much tichure: well‚Ķ maybe a little sarah 1: So his death was ironic for sure tichure: what do we know about Wilfred Owen? tichure: Explain Sarah tichure: did this guy go to war? tichure: Did this guy volunteer for war? sarah 1: He died seven days before the war ended. Barely fought sarah 1: yes tichure: Hello Sandy‚Ķ we are discussing Wilfred Owen's disabled tichure: was Wilfred Owen likely entering the service in order to impress the ladies? sandi86 1: hi guys off topic, but is this for eiland's english 103 tichure: Yes Sandy sandi86 1: ok thanks sorry i joined late. tichure: I understand‚Ķ find the poem and read it quickly‚Ķ it's not long sarah 1: It says he was already a successful techer so probably not sarah 1: He probably met a lot of guys like that tho tichure: keep reading the biography Sarah‚Ķ there's something else about Wilfred Owen that might be telling about whether or not he might've been trying to impress the ladies tichure: in the meantime, tichure: when was this poem written Amy: 1917 tichure: which war is he talking about then tichure: Sarah‚Ķ any luck on the girl aspect for Wilfred Owen tichure: not a history class folks, but you do need to know some history‚Ķ if you don't know, do a Google search and put in the word WAR along with the date and see what you get sandi86 1: WWI i believe tichure: you believe correctly sandy sarah 1: His family was having financial woes. That's all I found so far tichure: what elements of this story would coincide with the notion that this is World War I and 1917 as opposed to say, a Middle Eastern War and the 2000s tichure: Sarah, see if you find anything about his‚Ķ say‚Ķ sexual orientation Amy: was he in love with sassoon, a man tichure: hahaha tichure: if that is the case, where would he get the story about people joining war in order to impress the girls tichure: would he have experienced people having amputations tichure: would he have experienced people realizing that they've made some kind of fundamental mistake tichure: did Wilfred Owen spent any time in the hospital while he was in war tichure: biographical criticism essentially says that by looking at the author's own experiences we can understand where they got the imagery, the narrative or the information that is in their work. tichure: Likewise, historical criticism places to work in the context of the era in which it was written. for example, if someone were a double amputee today, what would be their prospects? If someone were a double amputee in 1917, what would be his prospects, and which one is a better situation? sarah 1: yes, he met a lot of soldiers at the hospital where he was sent for shell shock tichure: Very good tichure: by understanding his biography, does it make sense as to where he got his imagery and information sarah 1: yes tichure: from a historical perspective do we get the understanding why this person who has no legs would be so much in despair tichure: are there any prosthetics that would help him be mobile in any real way tichure: to get a real job tichure: and keep in mind this is before things like Social Security and disability insurance sandi86 1: no tichure: we will pick this up next week. I want you to read through all of the poems of week one and week two‚Ķ we will take a couple of those and run through these critical perspectives during chat tichure: any questions tichure: we will talk about paper one next week as well sarah 1: no sarah 1: ok sandi86 1: ok thanks tichure: thank you for hanging out and I'll see you next week Amy: bye tichure: if you have any questions during the week, send me an e-mail. tichure: Stay in touch tichure: your welcome Sandy tichure: by Amy sarah 1: see ya! THis was fun thanks! tichure: by Sarah tichure: you're welcome tichure: poof