Joined at 7:01 PM

tichure: 103

tichure: Still loading

Amy: Where is everyone?

sarah 1: Hello?

tichure: hey  sarahてカ still helping people get in

sarah 1: Okay

tichure: hey amy

tichure: still loading

tichure: first day is always the slowest

Amy: Hi, wasn't sure if I was in the right place

tichure: hahaha

tichure: I feel like that every day

Amy: yesterday I went to the wrong bio lab, duh!

Amy: It was completely the wrong day

tichure: been thereてカ done that

tichure: I'm sure was a growth experience

Amy: the teacher was cool and let me stay, i was glad because it was a 7-10pm class

tichure: see, you found something good

Amy: Hi sarah

sarah 1: Hello. Never chatted before. Kinda cool

Amy: walcome, I took Art 100 and chatting on line was fun

Amy: oops welcome

sarah 1: I'm always up for learning something new! Kinda like facebook chatting

sarah 1: I think it'll be really different tho when there are alot of people at once

Amy: my daughters are super fast at keyboarding, because they caht with friends on skype

Amy: oops chat, I'm not as good as them

sarah 1: I took typing and am pretty fast too. I like it so that's another reason this is cool

Amy: Is this your first semester at Citrus?

sarah 1: no. I graduated in June but need a few more classes to transfer

Amy: Where are you transferring to?

sarah 1: Cal Poly Pomona

Amy: I'm hoping to transfer ther too, or maybe fullerton. I need to stay close to home.

sarah 1: yeah, it's not worth it to go far when there are so many schools right here

sarah 1: Did you read the chat archive?

Amy: yes

sarah 1: I was surprised that it said there were only a test and a few papers. When I looked at the syllabus, it looked like a lot more

tichure: well let's talk about it now

Amy: There you are

tichure: do you have any questions

tichure: I'm going to explain essentially how the class works and then we'll get to some actual material

tichure: but for now, ask in case there's something I can answer briefly

sarah 1: So the reading for the first week is supposed to be done by today or by when?

tichure: all assigned readings for any week are due essentially at the beginning of the week but certainly by chat

tichure: that way when we're discussing things you're not trying to read while we are discussing it

sarah 1: Wow! That's alot to absorb in two days. I think next week will be easier

tichure: of courseてカ also, there's really not that much to read and in reality, by the time I get done explaining how the class works, we will have very little time to cover anything other than a single poem

Amy: I read a couple of the poems from the book in the library, but haven't bought the book yet.

tichure: that's okay Amyてカ as long as you can keep up until you  finally get your book that's fine

Amy: I mostly read everything in CANVAS and on your site, very thorough

tichure: I will post the due date on CANVAS Sarah

tichure: excellent Amy

sarah 1: Anything else?

tichure: well, you also have the response portion of your grade

tichure: but how about I give  an overview and touch on each of the things individually so that I can explain how they are similar and different from each other

sarah 1: please do. I feel like I'm in a whirlwind

tichure: hahhaah

tichure: than you must be in the right place

Amy: I had never heard of MLA, but researched it today and feel I will be able to conquer it.

tichure: excellent Amyてカ you'll see that formatting on the other material, especially the archive materialてカ on my website

tichure: what is going to follow is some information that I will post fairly rapidly. If you have any questions at some point, simply post your question

tichure: This course is a university level composition course.  You will be required to read and analyze a series of literary works.  In order to succeed, you will need to pay attention to deadlines and to stay up with the reading and writing assignments.  Everything that you do for me will be an essay.  We will have a series of written research papers as well as a written test. 

tichure: there is also your participation grade, which is a combination of RESPONSES to the readings

sarah 1: If nobody else joins, will we end up changing the time?

Amy: should all the responses be between 3-5 paragraphs?

tichure: yes

tichure: no Sarah

tichure: it varies from week to week, anywhere between one or two people to as many as 15

tichure: and the bottom line is even if I'm only talking to one person, that information will be read by most everybody else in the class and so it's important share the information

Amy: Have you ever had 0

tichure: yes Amyてカ and then what I do is I post an archive that carries the information that we would've discussed in person

tichure: for some reason around holidays and other difficult times, like Halloween, there tends to be vacancy

tichure: There will be two papers . Each paper will be posted on CANVAS under the title paper one, paper two etc.  each will have its own assignment and its own due date.   The first paper assignment is posted already on CANVAS.  I will post the due date when I see how the class is progressing.  We will discuss the material for papers generally in class during the course of the semester, but you are not limited to what we discussed in class and certainly I want to see some original scholarship.  You'll have a chance to rewrite the two papers.  That means that you must get your paper into to me on-time, and i respond by email, you must pick it up, revise it and get it back to me.

tichure: the idea is that writing is the process.  I'm going to lead you through discussions in which we discuss the major points to be discussed or to be pointed out in your paper, but essentially you're going to have to create paper on your own and when you do, there may be some things that you're missing or some ways that you go off on a tangent... my response to you will help you to fine tune that process

Amy: When you say we may revise two papers, does that include a test paper?

tichure: is everybody clear so far

tichure: that is exactly correct Amy

tichure: you revise the first paper

tichure: and you get to have a makeup for the first test

sarah 1: So some papers we won't revise?

Amy: yes, clear

tichure: there is only one other paperてカ the final paper and there's not enough time for revision

Amy: will any other edition of the text work for this class?

tichure: and your responses if it really needs it

Amy: sweet

tichure: yes Amyてカ make sure that you find the topics by looking at an index or the table of contents

tichure: CHAT
 Chat is once a week.  It will be held every Wednesday from seven to 9 p.m. unless I tell you differently.  You must attend the chat regularly for the participation credit or you must read the archives on the web site.  The purpose of the chat realm is to discuss the material under discussion.  That means that you must arrive having pre-read the story or other literature assigned for that particular week as well as the rhetoric. 

 I will then lead a discussion in which you are expected  to respond to the questions and prompts that I ask.  Keep in mind that this is not a free-for-all and it is not designed to allow you to pontificate on your ideas about life.  Instead, we are analyzing literature in some very strict guidelines and we will stick to those guidelines.

The responses are also on Canvas. It is a major aspect of your grade in terms of participation. The responses are essentially a concise 3 to 5 paragraph analysis of a work that is essentially a response to the questions that I pose in the assignment. Using the primary and secondary texts to support your analysis is useful and helpful, as it not only makes a better essay, but it also will be  and good practice for papers and test

tichure: Good so far?

Amy: yes

tichure: Also, I use Dragon speak... that means I talk and it  types for me.  Thus there will be typos etc.  When I see them after posting a message, I will follow with a correction followed by the word SIGH.  If there's something that you do not understand, ask me.

Amy: cool

sarah 1: got it

tichure: TEST
 There will be two test opportunities.  Tests will be given in the testing center.  You'll usually have a week in advance notice and then you will show up at the testing center with your primary source and your research, both printed out, a blue book and a pen. You will be given 80 minutes to complete five paragraphs on the topic that you will know in advance.  There are no surprise quizzes.

Amy: sounds fair

tichure: No questions?

tichure: 2 papers

tichure: 1 test

tichure: 2 - 5 RESPONSE postings

tichure: no Amy on CANVAS

Amy: ok

Amy: Is the Writing Center on campus new?

sarah 1: What's that?

tichure: yes Sarah, you will get plenty of feedback from me

sarah 1: Good! I will NEED it

tichure: it's been around a while in some form or another Amy  but it's not associated with this class specifically  but you are certainly welcome to go in there and show them what you're working on and hopefully they will help you

tichure: make better work

tichure: any other questions about the way the class works

Amy: I think I'm good for now

tichure: are you ready for some actual class content?

sarah 1: UUuuummmm....okay

Amy: ok

tichure: Did both of you see the posting for the first paper

Amy: yes

sarah 1:the first draft one?  yes

tichure: have you chosen something\

Amy: not yet

sarah 1: Lots of good ones, but not yet

sarah 1: Do we have to reserve one?

tichure: no Sarahてカ everybody could do the same one if they wantてカ but it helps in our discussion of what the first papers going to be if you already know what you're talking about

tichure: but let me give you some background information first

tichure: This is a university level literature analysis course.  In this class, we will be reading a series of literary works in analyzing them from the literary perspective.  At no time are you to refer to yourself personally.  At no time are you to explain something from your personal perspective.  Instead, all responses will be based on informed researched information gathered by you and presented in a correct collegiate essay form.  To that end, we will be using primary and secondary sources.  More on that later.  We will be using specific literary terms.  In fact, when you are given an assignment, you will be given specific literary perspective that you must take in your essay.  Because literature is an art, there are many ways to interpret it.

tichure: That means there are many correct answers.  That also means there are many more incorrect answers.  In order to have a correct answer, your response must be supportable from the aspect of the critical analytical tool you're using as well as supported in the text itself.  In other words, you cannot change a story or add anything to it in order to make it fit what you would like to be.

tichure: Any time you use another author's words or concepts, either from the primary text or from other resources, you must put the words you used in quotation marks and cite appropriately.  you would have learned this in English 101.  At no time will you submit a paper to me that does not have correctly quoted and cited text.

tichure: okay so far?

sarah 1: ok

tichure: the literary analysis that you did in English 101 specifically worked on literary terms... symbolism, irony, theme and the like.  That type of literary analysis is important, but it is the starting point.  There are many ways to analyze literature, and the different viewpoints you may approach a work through change the meaning.  We will be looking through those various viewpoints.  Please keep this in mind: there will be critical analyses that you agree with and that seem to make a great deal of sense.  There will be others that do not make a great deal of sense or that you disagree with outright.  That is immaterial to me.  Your job is to be able to identify, understand, and utilize each one of the literary critical perspectives that are presented in this class.  Failure to do so will severely hinder your grade.

Amy: ok

tichure: To that end, let's discuss a couple critical perspectives to get you started.  The first is formalist criticism.  If you took English 101 at this Institution, you likely did mostly formalist criticism.  It focuses on the basic literary elements and ignores any other aspects outside of the work itself.  The work essentially is what is found on the page.  We ignore when he was written and who wrote it.  The only focus on the basic symbols and irony and conflict.  Let's start with formalist criticism . Let's look at

tichure: hmmm...

tichure: Wilfred  owenてカ disabled

tichure: read the poem and let me know when you're ready

Amy: I read it earlier, but do not have it in front of me to refer to

tichure: find it online Amy

Amy: ok

sarah 1: ok

Amy: got it

tichure: what essentially is the poem about

Amy: a man in a wheel chair alone with his thoughts

sarah 1: I think it's about an old man who lost his legs in WWII and is remembering playing soccer and his previous life. Now he is in an institution waiting for them to take him inside to bed

tichure: how are we supposed to feel about the character

sarah 1: sorry for him

tichure: why

tichure: what tells you to feel that way

tichure: how does the author get you to that emotional state

tichure: for things I want you to consider for everything that we readてカ

sarah 1: the language

tichure: Speaker: not the author, the speaker or speakers are the narrative voice for any work including poetry fiction and drama. The speaker may embody a gender, and age, and era, an attitude or something along those lines.

tichure: Audience / audiencesてカ there are always specific audiences for work designated either by language or content. The answer てeverybodyて is not a good answer when asked about the audience for a work is

tichure: method: the method that an author uses may varyてカ obviously storytelling is important in drama and literature/fiction as well as in some poetry, but certainly rhyme, rhythm and meter etc. are important in poetry

tichure: message: what is the authors point? How do you knowてカ

tichure: Sarah, what specific languageてカ in other words what method

Amy: pity?

sarah 1: EX: He "shivered" and "voices rang saddening like a hymn" and "sleep had mothered them from him". All these evoke loneliness

tichure: very good sarah

tichure: other elements?

sarah 1: I get a "has been" feeling like his time is over and he is forgotten

sarah 1: Maybe like a sad veteran

sarah 1: Also like he was tricked.'

tichure: very good Sarah

tichure: trick how?

sarah 1: He was told about looking good and pleasing a girl. He didn't think of the consequences. "Germans he scarcely thought of"

sarah 1: "And no fear Of Fear came yet."

tichure: what was his enticement to get into war

tichure: what was his motivation

sarah 1: "to plese his Meg"

tichure: translate that Sarah

tichure: Amy, you said pity and what I'm looking for is specific examples

sarah 1: For the glory and to be a hero

tichure: is that necessarily the right reason Sarah

sarah 1: I'm not supposed to judge right?

tichure: in other words, is this character completely innocent or did someone else pray on a certain form of greed

Amy: ok

tichure: you may judge if that's where the authors taking you

tichure: for example, you have already judged if you feel sorry for this guy. If the author made you feel that way, the author has been effective

sarah 1: OH, well he's obviously portrayed as the victim

sarah 1: Naive victim

tichure: is he entirely innocent

sarah 1: I feel like he's portrayed as having been taken advantage of in his naive youth.

tichure: Theoretically and ideally, and of course taking the highest road possible, why should someone choose to go to war?

tichure: because naive youths are drawn by what Sarah

sarah 1: Fame, Fortune, Glory?

tichure: very good if those are what naive youths are drawn to

tichure: why SHOULD someone be going to war?

sarah 1: Power?

tichure: ideally

sarah 1: To serve their country and to keep our freedom?

tichure: good  answer, Sarah

tichure: do we get that impression from this particular character

sarah 1: Because they need money for school? lololol

tichure: hahahaha

sarah 1: nope

tichure: so is our character completely innocent\

sarah 1: He hadn't thought it through and it said "smilingly they wrote his lie"

tichure: or was he taken advantage of because we understand the  ulterior motives of young men

tichure: very good

sarah 1: taken advantage of

tichure: so the author does tell us that this guy realizes his mistake

sarah 1: later of course when he's older and wiser

tichure: And more importantly, the narrator tells  us the characters mistake

sarah 1: Well, I guess it doesn't really say he realizes his mistake if he's not the speaker

tichure: =the narrator can tell us that Sarah

tichure: do we get the impression that the characterてカ the soldierてカ realizes his mistake

sarah 1: I guess because he feels sorry for himself

sarah 1: He still blames it on them tho

tichure: absolutely

tichure: in an ideal situation, how are soldiers portrayed? Kind of values do they have? The character do they have?

sarah 1: Ideally they are the best of the best; trained to be so

sarah 1: They are portrayed as heroes

tichure: How is this author portraying soldiers?

tichure: Very good Sarah

sarah 1: as dummies! lol

tichure: hahahaha

tichure: well

tichure: let's step back just a little bit

tichure: if the author makes it clear that this guy's motivation for going into war was that essentially he would be popular with women, are we really that sympathetic with his plight when his gamble does not pay off the way he intended and in fact in an ironic twist makes him even more unappealing than he apparently already was before he went

sarah 1: I think that I would feel like all young guys are naive in the same way.

sarah 1: I would still feel sorry for him

tichure: on understand your point Sarah, but is that what the author wants you to do

sarah 1: I guess it depends on the reader's view of 19 yr olds

tichure: and I'm not saying that he doesn't

tichure: hahaha

tichure: absolutely

tichure: one of the things that we're looking for when were analyzing this work is the way the author weights  the information one way or another to get us to feel one thing or another about a character.

tichure: Do you think this author is for or against war generally

tichure: according to the poem

sarah 1: I guess I had no feeling that the author wanted us to see it as his "payback"  I think the author is maybe against war

sarah 1: It goes back to whose fault it is tho

tichure: Sarah, after looking at it these past few minutes do you get the distinct impression that the author does want us to see the irony of a person who goes into something expecting to be rewarded and repaid with attractiveness and is actually punished with even more unattractiveness than he had before

sarah 1: ok

tichure: absolutely Sarahてカ would a more mature person be duped into thinking that simply becoming a soldier is going to make a person a chick magnet

sarah 1: NO!

tichure: would a mature person to ignore the possibility or even likelihood that injury and/or death may be a result of that choice?

sarah 1: no

sarah 1: Amy?

tichure: Once we look at the things that the author has given us, after a while we are drawn, almost without choice where the authors taking us

tichure: Amy is mesmerized by our fascinating conversation and is  furiously writing notes

sarah 1: hahahahhaaaaa

tichure: Sarah do me a favorてカ open a book with Web browser and find out something about Wilfred Owen

tichure: would you expect that this author has fought in war?

sarah 1: yes

tichure: Would you expect that this author would have volunteered for war?

sarah 1: yes

tichure: Would you expect that this author has had a good experience in war?

sarah 1: no.

tichure: Find something about Wilfred Owen and let's see what sticks

Amy: seriously, I'm learning a lot.

tichure: biographical criticism is a critical perspective that essentially says that a work is reflection of the author's specific experience  or observation. Biographical experiences prior to the writing of the work can be used as evidence or support in terms of translating the work into a specific meaning.

tichure: hahhaa

tichure: I'm glad to hear that Amyてカ feel free to jump in anytime

tichure: we don't bite that much

tichure: wellてカ maybe a little

sarah 1: So his death was ironic for sure

tichure: what do we know about Wilfred Owen?

tichure: Explain Sarah

tichure: did this guy go to war?

tichure: Did this guy volunteer for war?

sarah 1: He died seven days before the war ended. Barely fought

sarah 1: yes

tichure: Hello Sandyてカ we are discussing  Wilfred Owen's disabled

tichure: was Wilfred Owen likely entering the service in order to impress the ladies?

sandi86 1: hi guys off topic, but is this for eiland's english 103

tichure: Yes Sandy

sandi86 1: ok thanks sorry i joined late.

tichure: I understandてカ find the poem and read it quicklyてカ it's not long

sarah 1: It says he was already a successful techer so probably not

sarah 1: He probably met a lot of guys like that tho

tichure: keep reading the biography Sarahてカ there's something else about Wilfred Owen that might be telling about whether or not he might've been trying to impress the ladies

tichure: in the meantime,

tichure: when was this poem written

Amy: 1917

tichure: which war is he talking about then

tichure: Sarahてカ any luck on the girl aspect for  Wilfred Owen

tichure: not a history class folks, but you do need to know some historyてカ if you don't know, do a Google search and put in the word WAR along with the date and see what you get

sandi86 1: WWI i believe

tichure: you believe correctly sandy

sarah 1: His family was having financial woes. That's all I found so far

tichure: what elements of this story would coincide with the notion that this is World War I and 1917 as opposed to say, a  Middle Eastern War and the 2000s

tichure: Sarah, see if you find anything about hisてカ sayてカ sexual orientation

Amy: was he in love with sassoon, a man

tichure: hahaha

tichure: if that is the case, where would he get the story about people joining war in order to impress the girls

tichure: would he have experienced people having amputations

tichure: would he have experienced people realizing that they've made some kind of fundamental mistake

tichure: did Wilfred Owen spent any time in the hospital while he was in war

tichure: biographical criticism essentially says that by looking at the author's own experiences we can understand where they got the imagery, the narrative or the information that is in their work.

tichure: Likewise, historical criticism places to work in the context of the era in which it was written.  for example, if someone were a double amputee today, what would be their prospects? If someone were a double amputee in 1917, what would be his prospects, and which one is a better situation?

sarah 1: yes, he met a lot of soldiers at the hospital where he was sent for shell shock

tichure: Very good

tichure: by understanding his biography, does it make sense as to where he got his imagery and information

sarah 1: yes

tichure: from a historical perspective do we get the understanding why this person who has no legs would be so much in despair

tichure: are there any prosthetics that would help him be mobile in any real way

tichure: to get a real job

tichure: and keep in mind this is before things like Social Security and disability insurance

sandi86 1: no

tichure: we will pick this up next week. I want you to read through all of the poems of week one and week twoてカ we will take a couple of those and run through these critical perspectives during chat

tichure: any questions

tichure: we will talk about paper one next week as well

sarah 1: no

sarah 1: ok

sandi86 1: ok thanks

tichure: thank you for hanging out and I'll see you next week

Amy: bye

tichure: if you have any questions during the week, send me an e-mail.

tichure: Stay in touch

tichure: your welcome Sandy

tichure: by Amy

sarah 1: see ya! THis was fun thanks!

tichure: by Sarah

tichure: you're welcome

tichure: poof