19:34:50 From Nicholas : Hello professor 19:34:58 From tichure : hey nicholas 19:35:14 From tichure : Did you get feedback for your paper 19:35:17 From tichure : In an email today 19:35:28 From Nicholas : Yes I got it, 19:35:42 From Nicholas : Thank you I will take notes on that for my paper. 19:36:19 From Nicholas : My feminist criticism response I fixed I believe. 19:36:22 From tichure : do you have any questions 19:36:40 From tichure : your revision was a huge improvement. Especially that second paragraph nailed it 19:36:50 From tichure : I think a lot of the stuff that I asked you to work on is either formatting or grammar stuff 19:37:01 From tichure : but I said, if any questions, any clarifications you need, let me know now 19:37:04 From Nicholas : I went back and added the part on the " A feminist would agree and disagree" 19:37:38 From Nicholas : Thank you, yes I am trying really hard in this class. Any feedback and guidance is always needed. 19:37:39 From tichure : yep 19:37:42 From tichure : thats what it takes 19:37:48 From Nicholas : I believe it was response 4 that I need help on 19:37:54 From tichure : that it is clear that you are showing how they are feeling about the work rather than just the topics 19:38:02 From Nicholas : The cultural one 19:38:18 From tichure : okay a cultural criticism requires the same type response that the feminist does. What culture did you translate from 19:38:50 From tichure : what culture did you apply 19:38:56 From Nicholas : For this response I will be using cultural. Cultural is shown by the circumstances that have occurred, and how a different culture would view those circumstances. From the rates of poverty in a neighborhood of another culture could view that differently. How Shakur was raised by a single mother that can be viewed differently as well. The use of drugs that Shakur mentions in his song as well can be viewed differently by culture. All of the situations and trials that Shakur experienced growing up fall into a culture system. 19:39:04 From Nicholas : That was my beginning paragraph 19:39:24 From tichure : okay here’s the deal 19:39:59 From tichure : you need to identify a very specific culture, such as a particular religion or a particular this city or a group that is identified by their beliefs, like the police or psychologists or child protective services 19:40:30 From tichure : one of the requirements for this paper, if you want chance for a top grade, is that one of your critical perspectives has to disagree with the poems claim 19:40:30 From Nicholas : So just one of the specifically ? 19:40:41 From tichure : can you think of a culture that does not agree with the authors claim in the poem 19:40:44 From tichure : yes one only 19:40:50 From tichure : one single culture that is going to examine the entire work 19:41:02 From tichure : in the same way that your feminist examined the entire work 19:41:02 From Nicholas : I believe that this one would probably be were the disagreement comes 19:41:10 From tichure : so what culture would that be 19:41:55 From tichure : think of a group of people that, either because of what they do for living, with the believe religiously, or what they have is cultural values, would find problems with what the mother did 19:42:18 From Nicholas : In Shakur song he speaks on growing up poor. Shakur states, "We was poorer than the other little kids." (9). In this article I read it says, “Both political and economic, that they afford their residents, from neighborhoods without extreme concentrations of poverty.” (Cohen and Dawson 2). What is being said there was politically and economically the residents who they knew were not poor where not too much of a concern to them. Talking a little more about being poor and struggling Shakur says, “A poor single mother on welfare...” (24). I read in another article that stated, “Second, politicians created and popularized racist images of black and brown welfare mothers to justify welfare cut-backs, images that have since become pervasive.” (Reese 21). Here it is showing how the culture of politicians made it out to seem that only African American and Hispanic culture is on welfare. The way that they are viewed differently and negatively by the way that they survive by the other cultures. Another lyric of Shakur 19:42:29 From Nicholas : was, “Suspended from school, and scared to go home, I was a fool, With the big boys breakin' all the rules.” (Shakur 6-7). Following the lyrics, “Adolescents who live in neighborhoods that are cohesive typically perform better than students who live in poor neighborhoods. Research suggests that students who live in more cohesive neighborhoods where neighbors have common goals in keeping property values high. The children living in those neighborhoods are more likely to have role models, consistent adult supervision, and access to good schools.” (Eamon, 2005). Here what is being shown is that the culture of living in a poor neighborhood influences the children. The children with both parents and not in the poor culture tend to do better. In another part of the song it says, “I needed money of my own, so I started slangin' I ain't guilty, 'cause even though I sell rocks.” (Shakur 41-42). In this other article I read following the lyrical verse says, “Cultural attributes of young people themselves are considered 19:42:39 From Nicholas : in relation to their offending. This examination is steeped within the tradition of ‘cultural criminology’ – the explorations and analyses of the intersections of culture and crime.” (Ferrell and Sanders 1995; Hall and Jefferson 1976; Hebdige 1979; Jefferson 1993;Presdee 2000; Willis 1978). Here is the different views of culture form the whites and African Americans. In this article it has says that the trouble that occurs is based off of cultural criminology There is a different view of one race to the other. 19:42:52 From tichure : well the problem is when I need you to do is start from the beginning. In other words, the first thing you need to do, before you find resource material, is to side who is analyzing the poem, what culture is analyzing the poem, because that determines what your secondary source material is going to be 19:43:14 From Nicholas : That was my body paragraph, can we break this down to what needs to be fixed, so I can understand it better 19:43:27 From tichure : you have to choose a single culture and either white or African-American is too broad 19:44:37 From tichure : because there are plenty of white people who would understand living in poverty and accept drug\culture, and there are plenty of white people who would not\ there are plenty of African Americans who are raised in middle and upper class homes and who have very conservative values and would not agree with this woman’s choices at all 19:44:56 From tichure : so let me ask you this 19:45:21 From tichure : think of either a political group or somebody who does a particular job who would find that what this woman does is either against moral or civil laws and therefore disagree with what the narrator is saying 19:45:29 From tichure : a cultural criticism does not compare cultures 19:45:34 From tichure : it does not explain with different cultures think 19:45:38 From tichure : it chooses a single culture for that argument 19:45:45 From tichure : and tells us what that culture thinks of what the song is and what it says 19:45:58 From tichure : in the same way that your feminist criticism h explains what feminists think of what the song says and whether or not they like it 19:46:13 From tichure : not all white people are going to like or dislike the song. 19:46:18 From tichure : Not all black people are going to like or dislike this song 19:46:30 From tichure : those categories are too broad because there are plenty of groups within those groups that define their beliefs 19:47:01 From Nicholas : Would it be a political group or can it be a religion group? 19:47:05 From tichure : either one 19:47:10 From tichure : and sometimes they are together. 19:47:22 From tichure : The more the Geordie is a religious/Republican offshoot of the Republican Party 19:47:45 From tichure : log cabin club is a LB GT Q offshoot of the Republican Party 19:47:54 From Nicholas : I could use both of them together? 19:47:58 From tichure : these are groups within a larger group they carry very specific beliefs that help you to narrow down the focus 19:48:07 From tichure : well you for defining thing. Give me an example 19:48:38 From tichure : you’re looking for a defining thing that combines the people into one group 19:48:42 From tichure : give me an example 19:48:50 From tichure : for example, cops have a very specific viewpoint on law 19:48:58 From tichure : people working child protective services have a very specific viewpoint 19:49:03 From tichure : conservative Republicans have a very specific viewpoint 19:49:17 From tichure : it helps you to define what the rules are according to this group and therefore what they would like or dislike about what the narrator says and what the mother does 19:49:34 From tichure : the good thing about religions and for political parties is that they clearly identify what they believe on their websites 19:49:44 From tichure : and makes it easy to find resources 19:50:03 From Nicholas : A catholic republican? Such as they believe that it should be both parents in the house hold. For the actions of selling drugs and his mother doing drugs it was sinful? 19:50:08 From tichure : excellent 19:50:46 From Nicholas : Could I combine those two together like that, or only use one such as religion? 19:50:50 From tichure : which means you can use both Catholic law (the commandments, church doctrine) and Republican stances on drugs, crime, incarceration, homelessness 19:50:53 From tichure : either one works 19:50:57 From tichure : it really depends on what works best for YOU 19:51:06 From tichure : in terms of finding a cohesive argument. I think either one of them alone is plenty 19:51:08 From tichure : so for example 19:51:11 From Nicholas : I guess I have a hard time finding the support 19:51:16 From tichure : which one do you know better. Catholics or Republicans? 19:51:20 From Nicholas : As far as finding the key words 19:52:01 From Nicholas : hmm they both are something I am not too familiar with, but more so catholic religion. 19:52:11 From tichure : It’s a good start 19:52:19 From tichure : what is the source for their beliefs? 19:52:58 From Nicholas : Saints 19:53:03 From tichure : Well actually it’s a document 19:53:11 From tichure : in which what the Saints might’ve said or believed is reported 19:53:19 From Nicholas : Oh okay yeah I did not know that.. 19:53:33 From tichure : you may have one in your house, and I bet your parents do 19:53:48 From tichure : actually you do know this. It’s so obvious that it may not occur to you 19:53:59 From tichure : what book do Catholics and other Christians use as a reference 19:53:59 From Nicholas : I guess maybe I can use the social work one? I am more familiar with that. 19:54:05 From tichure : that’s a good choice to 19:54:07 From Nicholas : The bible 19:54:09 From tichure : what I was getting to is the Bible 19:54:11 From tichure : of course course 19:54:15 From tichure : and course the Pope 19:54:28 From tichure : but I like the child welfare people to 19:54:33 From tichure : because they will have a mixed opinion 19:54:40 From tichure : let’s go with child services here 19:54:48 From Nicholas : Okay, 19:54:54 From tichure : what is child protective services think of a 17-year-old being kicked out of his house 19:55:00 From tichure : okay or not okay 19:55:06 From Nicholas : not okay 19:55:18 From tichure : very good. What do they think of parents using drugs in the presence of children? 19:55:37 From Nicholas : Not okay 19:55:46 From tichure : What do they think of using welfare to support children? 19:56:25 From Nicholas : They think if they need it then okay, but if they struggle more with welfare than their is other issues? 19:56:54 From tichure : Actually, because they are in the business of providing government services to people, they actually are part of the welfare system themselves. Not only do they not have a problem with it, they think it’s necessary 19:57:03 From tichure : what do they think of deadbeat dads? 19:57:31 From Nicholas : They oppose it 19:57:46 From tichure : What do they think of children dropping out of school 19:57:55 From Nicholas : Disagree 19:57:59 From tichure : what do they think of gangs 19:58:12 From Nicholas : Disagree 19:58:19 From tichure : do they agree that all this stuff actually happens? 19:58:28 From Nicholas : Yes 19:58:32 From tichure : So here’s the deal 19:58:45 From tichure : as you can see from this little back-and-forth, there are some things that they would agree with the narrator about and there are some things they disagree with the narrator about 19:58:49 From tichure : they agreed all the stuff happens 19:58:55 From tichure : but they don’t like some of it and are okay with other parts of 19:59:12 From tichure : your argument would essentially be that the culture of social workers, especially those that were with children and families, would have a mixed response to this song 19:59:23 From tichure : and really would be up to YOU to determine whether they are more for it or more against it. 19:59:37 From tichure : And what you would do perhaps is make a list of the things that they are okay with 19:59:43 From tichure : and another side of things that they’re not okay with 19:59:47 From Nicholas : So using that how can I start that. "In this response cultural criticism is shown by a social workers view." 19:59:56 From tichure : and whichever is the longer or more powerful list is the side that they would probably feel overall 20:00:15 From tichure : actually you would say “from the social workers cultural perspective…” 20:00:31 From tichure : and then you go through each of the things that the narrator says and tell us whether they agree or disagree with what the narrator says about that situation 20:01:25 From tichure : your organization would likely be to put all of the negatives together and all the positives together in the body paragraph 20:01:27 From Nicholas : Okay. Then for the body I would touch base on each of those? With a quote / song lyric / and how the social work sees that? 20:01:35 From tichure : you got it 20:01:44 From tichure : whatever you think is the overall feeling 20:01:48 From tichure : goes last 20:01:49 From Nicholas : So have two body paragraphs for the response ? 20:01:49 From tichure : so 20:01:51 From tichure : no 20:01:57 From tichure : I’m just talking about organization within the paragraph 20:02:13 From tichure : where you would do is say you decide that overall child protective services would not like the song because they disagree with the narrator’s overall claim about his mother 20:02:22 From tichure : you would actually start in the body paragraph by explaining stuff that the don’t have a problem with or that they’re okay with 20:02:57 From tichure : and then he would start hitting us with all the things that they don’t like don’t like don’t like because that’s more effective to and on the overall point which is that they don’t like the song even though they don’t hate every single part of 20:03:16 From tichure : so you would start with welfare 20:03:19 From tichure : and the deadbeat dad 20:03:23 From tichure : because they agree with the author 20:03:29 From tichure : that the welfare is okay and the deadbeat dad is not okay 20:03:44 From Nicholas : Okay so that would be my opening? 20:03:46 From tichure : then you would start saying all the things that they disagree with the author about such as her drug use, leaving them alone, him dropping out of school, him having to support his mother instead of the other way around 20:04:14 From tichure : and your topic sentence for the paragraph would be something along the lines of “a cultural criticism from social workers would find the song to be mostly problematic” or something like that 20:04:23 From tichure : and each time you bring something up 20:04:25 From tichure : the welfare 20:04:26 From tichure : the dad 20:04:33 From tichure : drugs 20:04:36 From tichure : gangs etc. 20:04:42 From tichure : you would give us their opinion about what the narrator says 20:04:56 From tichure : so he’s praising the gangs for being cool and they would say yeah but gangs cause problems and therefore we don’t agree with the author 20:05:01 From Nicholas : Would I need citations for their thoughts ? 20:05:10 From tichure : and of course you would go to child protective services and other social services websites that have opinions about gangs and drugs and deadbeat dads and the use of public assistance and everything else 20:05:12 From tichure : yes 20:05:16 From tichure : you must use quotation from them 20:05:38 From tichure : and because they have a strong presence on the web, you can find all kinds of stuff, whether these are private social services or, more commonly, the government’s ones like child protective services and Department of welfare etc. 20:05:45 From tichure : they have very specific rules about what is okay and not okay 20:05:55 From tichure : and would make a very good argument 20:06:15 From tichure : does that make sense 20:06:31 From Nicholas : So use a quotation from them, and then explain in my POV. Such as it says, " ……". With that it is showing the disagreement that a social worker would feel? 20:06:54 From tichure : that is correct and remember, it is their point of view, not yours 20:07:15 From Nicholas : So use their point of view after the citation of it but in my own words? 20:07:20 From tichure : in that paragraph, you are putting on the mantle of being a member of child protective services or social worker and using and using their resources and their words to support it 20:07:24 From tichure : well you’re quoting from them 20:07:44 From tichure : obviously are to be saying some of the stuff in your own words as well to explain what they’re saying, but you’re also quoting from them as evidence that that’s what they believe 20:08:11 From tichure : so you might say “child protective services would have a problem with kicking a child out of the house before 18. And then you might give us one of their laws or a quotation from one of their resources that says that children should be provided a house and sustenance until at least 18 20:08:18 From Nicholas : So use the quotation in the argument? 20:08:26 From tichure : and so you’re showing quotation. yes 20:08:29 From tichure : Absolutely 20:08:32 From tichure : just like you did on your other arguments 20:08:40 From tichure : so you bring up a point about deadbeat dads 20:08:44 From tichure : you show some quotation from the song 20:08:51 From tichure : you tell us what the narrator is saying in the quotation about deadbeat dads 20:09:01 From Nicholas : Okay off topic real quick, this is a part of my revision of response 3 20:09:02 From tichure : and then you tell us what in your own words the social services people would think about deadbeat dads 20:09:06 From tichure : and then gives the quotation from them 20:09:09 From Nicholas : In this article that I read it says, “Beginning with the reality that finance is gendered and the resulting inequalities”. (Wood). Here what is being shown is that normally the male is suppose to be the one who has the better finances, but it is describing how the women’s finances compared to men are not equal. With this feminist would disagree that it was only up to a man to provide for their families. 20:09:11 From tichure : that’s fine 20:09:26 From Nicholas : Is that the correct way of how I did that then? 20:10:07 From tichure : the feminist would disagree that the man is the only provider, and more than that, the feminist would not like the fact that women are not paid as much as men 20:10:32 From tichure : you’re on the right track, but remember part of it is going to be that the feminist would also be saying it should be that women make enough money that they could provide for a family the same way a man does 20:10:42 From tichure : that women should be up to make enough money 20:10:56 From tichure : the same that a man does 20:11:15 From tichure : and if the song is basically saying that she has to both work and be on welfare because she doesn’t make enough money, the feminist would agree that happens and they would say that it’s unfair 20:11:22 From tichure : does that make sense 20:11:35 From Nicholas : So, for that I would need more detail ? 20:12:16 From tichure : well is likely that when you find feminist resources that discuss the differences between what a man makes and what a woman makes, the elements of fairness and the effect it has on women and their children when they don’t have a man in the family are usually part of those conversations 20:12:32 From tichure : so if you have a resource that says that women don’t like the fact that men make more money, in the rest of the article there and explain why it’s bad for the rest of society 20:12:47 From tichure : in the rest of the article, they are likely to explain why it’s bad for the rest of society 20:12:50 From tichure : especially the children 20:12:55 From Nicholas : In Shakur’s song he says, “I hope you got the diamond necklace that I sent to you”. (Shakur 43). In this other article I read it says, “Feminist moms don’t make their daughters wear dresses if they don’t want to”. (Kenney). With this women must have this appearance as well. There are things they should wear and not wear. A diamond necklace can be worn for a man as well, but here it is being used as a clothing type for a women. A feminist would disagree because wearing jewelry is not just for women, and they could see it as a sexist point of view. 20:13:09 From Nicholas : Here is another part of my revision of it, 20:13:12 From tichure : and taxpayers who would then have to supplement what that job should have provided 20:13:16 From tichure : well actually on that particular point 20:13:28 From tichure : the therapist is going to say that jewelry and other adornments sexualize women 20:14:00 From tichure : and the fact that he’s buying a woman who was on welfare a diamond necklace instead of something more practical would be something that feminists would say that is probably not something that the ideal feminist female would do 20:14:44 From tichure : it all works, he’s treating his mother as if she is below him and he is buying her trinkets. Since second way feminists are against standard feminization/adoration aspects of gender politics, they would not be impressed by the diamond necklace. 20:14:56 From tichure : Since second wave feminists 20:15:00 From tichure : sigh 20:15:36 From Nicholas : Okay that is pretty much what I was trying to say but I just get so stuck trying to word everything 20:15:38 From tichure : for both your cultural criticism and your feminist criticism, it is important that you tell us what that group, either child protective services or feminists, think about what the narrator is saying and whether or not they agree with it 20:15:41 From tichure : I understand that 20:15:47 From tichure : and so you want to be a straightforward and clear as possible 20:16:06 From tichure : you will have phrases like “feminists do not like…” Or “feminists would not find such and such important” 20:16:17 From tichure : and that will make your point clear 20:17:17 From tichure : remember, the feminist agrees that mothers and women in general need respect, but at the same time they want that respect to be shown in ways that reflect their own values. Buying a woman jewelry is not something that is high on the feminist list of important things. 20:17:31 From tichure : They like the respect. They would not think much of the necklace. 20:18:48 From Nicholas : Okay I think I am understanding both of those responses a little bit more better. I am not sure if today is the 4th day that they'd need to be turned it, but can I have them both revised and turned in tomorrow? 20:18:56 From tichure : Yes 20:19:14 From tichure : it’s more important to me that you get right 20:19:20 From tichure : getting it right 20:19:34 From tichure : give it a shot and then I will give you some feedback 20:19:40 From tichure : that you can apply for the final paper 20:20:00 From Nicholas : Okay I will work on them right now and tomorrow. I will get them turned in tomorrow. 20:20:04 From tichure : sounds good 20:20:12 From tichure : let me know if something comes up. You can always hit me by email 20:20:20 From Nicholas : Also for response one I resubmitted that one too 20:20:26 From tichure : great. I will check it out 20:20:35 From Nicholas : It still shows a X though did that one need to be fixed again? 20:20:49 From tichure : if it has an X, yes 20:20:57 From tichure : but it could be I haven’t graded yet 20:21:02 From tichure : if you posted recently 20:21:26 From Nicholas : Okay can we look at that one? I know I resubmitted it in the begging within the 4 days of the feedbak 20:21:32 From Nicholas : *feedback 20:22:01 From tichure : what was the issue with the 20:22:05 From tichure : response? 20:22:07 From tichure : What did I say 20:23:05 From Nicholas : Let me find it 20:24:32 From tichure : you are supposed to fix it by the Monday following 17 January 20:24:42 From tichure : the problem was that you were not giving me proper formatting. 20:24:51 From tichure : You are citing a YouTube video as the author rather than by the title 20:24:58 From tichure : and your work cited was jacked up 20:25:10 From tichure : you had quotation in the introduction and conclusion 20:25:20 From tichure : and you had split the body paragraph into two paragraphs instead of just being one 20:27:29 From tichure : I will give you a chance to fix this but it also has to be by tomorrow night. It is largely a matter of citation, formatting and the organization of making one body paragraph instead of two 20:27:40 From tichure : if you can do it 20:28:12 From Nicholas : Okay I will try that. I think I did redo it. I got help from the tutor, but I guess I did not resubmit it. 20:28:22 From tichure : looks like it. 20:28:31 From tichure : So I’ll be expecting three from you by Friday morning 20:28:37 From tichure : one, three, four 20:29:02 From Nicholas : I will review the old one and the new one I did and see the areas again. 20:29:13 From tichure : okay. Send me an email if you have any questions 20:29:21 From tichure : anything else I can help you with 20:29:24 From Nicholas : Can you send me another transcript of our chat today please, so I can follow it. 20:29:57 From tichure : sure 20:30:04 From tichure : will get it to you within the hour 20:33:37 From tichure : so focus on getting the things done that are assigned and your grade is going to rise. You already have a passing grade 20:34:04 From Nicholas : Okay I think I am good for now then. If I have any other questions I will reach out again. Thank you professor. 20:34:10 From tichure : you got it 20:34:19 From tichure : have a good evening nicholas 20:34:26 From Nicholas : You as well! 20:34:38 From tichure : thank you 20:34:46 From tichure : poof