13:08:48 tichure : hey, Celeste, we will get started shortly. Waiting for people to wander in

13:08:59 Celeste : Okay lol

13:16:03 tichure : hey folks, we will do it another five minutes for those still wandering around the virtual parking lot

13:16:14 tichure : give it another five minutes

13:16:34 tichure : in the meantime, have all of you seen the list for the research paper?

13:17:51 Ranin : Hi! yes I have seen it

13:18:05 Celeste : Yes I have

13:18:27 tichure : Ranin,  Have you made a choice for your research paper

13:18:42 tichure : Celeste, have you made the choice for your research paper

13:19:24 Celeste : I was still debating on either La Migra by Mora or The yellow paper

13:19:40 Ranin : Yes I have I chose Dear Mama

13:19:44 tichure : have you read the yellow wallpaper before Celeste

13:20:01 tichure : Ranin, it’s a popular choice. We will talk about gathering resources today

13:20:27 Ranin : sounds good 

13:20:57 Celeste : I have read it but it was okay so I think my option will be more towards La Migra

13:21:02 Ranin : is the list for the research paper the one under course assignment descriptions in canvas?

13:23:56 tichure : yes, but it is also a separate folder in week one Ranin

13:24:13 tichure : so let’s talk about what you’re going to be doing in the chat and also in the class

13:24:28 tichure : the reality is that theoretically when you signed up for this course, you would have been on campus in my classroom at this time.


13:24:49 tichure : It is also the reality that many people have a difficult time attending the live chat and that’s why I use the text version. It allows me to archive the conversation so that those who cannot be here live can still access the information

13:25:11 tichure : that means the questions that we ask and get answered here will be helpful to the rest of the students who cannot be here for whatever reason

13:25:26 tichure : we will meet here each week primarily to discuss your research papers

13:25:50 Brianna : Will all the zoom meetings be recorded?

13:26:01 tichure : and course you have another option on Wednesday evenings between 7 and 9 PM. If the demand is enough, we can also add another day during class time on Wednesdays, but as you can see, there’s only a few of us, and that usually suffices, allowing us to use what would’ve been the chat on Wednesday as time to work on the research paper

13:26:17 tichure : they are recorded in the context that I post the chat in the archives Breanna

13:26:31 tichure : but I remove last names and other identifiers

13:26:55 tichure : as well as other stuff, such as someone posting their email address or stuff like that

13:27:07 tichure : so let’s talk about the research paper

13:27:23 tichure : all you need to choose from these six or so items that I listed in the “choose your research paper topic” folder in week one on canvas

13:27:56 tichure : we will then move to the second phase, which has to do with your first assignment, for which I sent an email out yesterday.

13:28:01 tichure : It’s time to develop the annotated works cited.

13:28:29 tichure : the  annotated works cited is a list of 10 items, the primary source (the work you’re actually analyzing) included

13:28:36 tichure : you need at least one biography of the author

13:29:20 Ranin : for response 2, paper 1. can I use the body paragraph in it as part of a body in my actual research paper?

13:29:32 tichure : you also will be looking for direct analyses of the work. If you choose something like an yellow wallpaper or cask of amontillado, you’re going to find plenty of material on Ebscohost and Gale, written by English majors, English teachers, literary critics and such because those works have been around for over 100 years and are considered part of the literary canon, which simply refers to the set of stories and poems and such that the literary world thinks are important

13:29:42 tichure : yes Ranin that is the intent of the assignment.

13:29:56 Ranin : oh ok I figured, but wanted to make sure 

13:29:59 tichure : ‘ by the way, I use Dragon speak

13:30:06 tichure : it does not always say what I intended to say

13:30:12 tichure : so if something seems confusing, ask me

13:30:37 tichure : if you choose something like dear mama,

13:30:43 tichure : you’re going to be finding different types of resources

13:31:01 tichure : there will be material available through the standard resources available through citrus college, but you have the added benefit of the fact that your author was a living breathing person during the technological age

13:31:04 tichure : meaning

13:31:12 tichure : they were interviewed in those interviews were recorded

13:31:19 tichure : and so you have options for YouTube interviews with the author and his mother

13:31:40 tichure : documentaries (not fictional films based on the biography)

13:31:47 tichure : and other resources that will be helpful in that analysis

13:31:52 tichure : that also includes Miller and Mora

13:32:04 tichure : who also have material available in more technologically advanced forms

13:32:29 tichure : so if your Netflix or you who and stuff like that, you’re going to find documentaries on Shakur that you can use a secondary source material

13:32:35 tichure : the same goes for George Lucas

13:32:50 tichure : if you have a DVD of the Star Wars episode that you wish to analyze, the directors commentary is a secondary source

13:33:21 tichure : in fact, now when you buy a Star Wars DVD, you’re likely to get a resource package that includes his explanation of his view of the entire series, among other interviews including those with different directors for the different films

13:33:26 tichure : all useful secondary source information

13:33:32 tichure : also, much of that is also on YouTube as well

13:33:47 tichure : the items that are on that list for the research paper are there because they are all researchable

13:34:08 tichure : that does not mean that it is going to be necessary easy for you specifically  To find that material. That’s why I give you a range of choices.

13:34:40 tichure : you need to gather those resources and develop a list. Under each item in the list, you will give me a brief description as to what that item is, whether it is the work itself, it’s a biography of the author or director, it is direct analysis of the work and so on

13:34:47 tichure : your also going to be looking for CONTEXTUAL secondary sources.

13:34:54 tichure : Contextual secondary sources are not discussions of the work itself.

13:35:39 tichure : Correct contextual secondary sources are to those to discuss the issue that is presented in the work. For yellow wallpaper, that would be information about S weir Mitchell and his rest cure, as well as the malady that was being treated at the time (postpartum depression was not a term back then. It did not exist).

13:36:21 tichure : Likewise, if you’re covering dear mama, you would be looking at statistical information about the demographic being described (Young African American men being raised by single mothers in poverty) and you would gather statistical information that would establish that what he’s describing is true (not for him,  but for a population)

13:37:15 tichure : for the Edgar Allan Poe story, you would be gathering information on life in Europe (Italy or France, depending on your secondary sources) and what catacombs are, what Carnival is, what the wines are (especially the rarity  and expense of amontillado), what Masons are etc.

13:37:56 tichure : these resources are not going to be discussing your story and they are not found by researching by title and author. They are found by going into Ebsco and searching for the topic (the crack epidemic, the catacombs of Europe, illegal immigration from Mexico etc.).

13:38:48 tichure : Your collection of information has two functions. The first is actually to determine whether or not you can find enough information to write your research paper on your chosen topic. If you cannot find the information, you need to choose a more accessible topic

13:39:31 tichure : the second of course is that you’ll be using this information in the paper itself, although the reality is you probably will not use all of the material that you initially find and it is very common that you will have to find other resources as you develop your paper. The annotated work cited is simply a starting point at this point in the semester.

13:39:42 tichure : Everybody with me so far?

13:39:56 Travis : yes

13:40:23 tichure : Thank you Travis

13:40:25 Alex : Yes

13:40:26 Celeste : yes

13:40:35 tichure : thanks Celeste.

13:40:37 Ranin : yes

13:40:37 tichure : So

13:40:48 tichure : how many people are considering doing  dear mama

13:40:54 tichure : Shakur

13:41:09 Alex : Me

13:41:36 Ranin : I am and I have submitted my works cited but I think now I have an idea of better secondary sources as well after what you said 

13:42:02 tichure : I’m going to encourage you, especially those here in the chat room, to work together. What that means is that you can gather resources together, work out the analyses together, and of course you will have someone to trade papers with. You are overwriting your own research paper, but the process itself can be collaborative.

13:42:41 tichure : Ranin, There is a common experience, so you may want to change it if the due date has not passed. Otherwise, wait for me to tell you to revise it and then take your changes then

13:43:15 tichure : for those doing dear mama, remember that you are not going to be writing a paper explaining to me what an awesome guy the author is.

13:43:38 tichure : They in fact, for ALL of you, keep in mind that at least one of your analyses due by the end of the semester must disagree with the author/be critical of the point made in the work

13:44:01 tichure : which many people covering dear mama and La migra  seem to struggle with.

13:44:10 tichure : They choose these resources because they like the work and they like what it says

13:44:28 tichure : but every single one of these works are in the research paper list because they provide controversy. They are making a statement that not everybody believes is true

13:44:56 tichure : and keep in mind that your focus in this class is to be a will to show me the different translations. You need to be able to show me that you understand why people can look at an issue and come up with different feelings as to whether they agree or disagree on the topic

13:45:20 Travis : We will be working on the works cited this week and turning them in next week?

13:45:22 tichure : which means if you choose Pat Mora, and how many of you are doing Mora by the way

13:45:41 Celeste : Me

13:45:42 tichure : that sounds about right Travis. The due date is posted in canvas

13:45:50 Travis : Thank you

13:46:28 tichure : well, Celeste, the deal is that this is a topic on which there are very clear sides. One of your arguments is going to be an argument that says that was presented in this poem is inaccurate and unfair, so it would likely be a translation of the work from either the border patrol or those who are against illegal immigration.

13:46:53 tichure : You will also likely have an argument or two that explains how awesome the poem is and why the author has it exactly right.

13:47:10 Ranin : the annotated works cited is due today, Feb 22

13:47:14 tichure : In other words folks, your paper is not a single note in terms of either always agreeing or always disagreeing. You’re going to be showing me a range of translations in your paper

13:47:29 tichure : that is for the early start class only Ranin, and there are folks in here who are doing a 16 week class.

13:47:59 tichure : And I’m also to push that due date back Ranin. likely to the end of the week because we started in the middle the week last week

13:48:10 tichure : to give the eight-week folks little breathing room

13:48:17 Ranin : oh okay I'm in fast-pace that's why I thought that

13:48:31 tichure : no problem.

13:48:38 Alex : Thank you

13:48:39 tichure : And everything I tell everybody is relevant to everybody.

13:48:44 tichure : No problem

13:49:03 tichure : so the deal is that you are looking for material in your research that is 
both going to be supportive of the work and the author in the claim as well as critical

13:49:11 tichure : which gets to my Star Wars people. Anybody here doing Star Wars?

13:49:34 tichure : If you decide to do the movie, you’re choosing one episode only

13:49:43 tichure : you are only discussing that single episode from the opening crawl to the ending credits

13:49:50 tichure : you are not discussing the entire arc of the saga

13:50:02 tichure : and at some point you’re gonna find analysis for people who dislike or are critical of the movie

13:50:08 tichure : especially if you choose one of the early versions

13:50:22 tichure : like episode IV

13:50:26 tichure : which we used to call

13:50:29 tichure : Star Wars

13:50:44 tichure : which was criticized by both feminists and people of color because of the lack of women and people of color

13:50:58 tichure : which of course is reflected in the later versions, especially the last three, which show much more diversity.

13:51:13 tichure : You also have people who criticize the movie because they believe that science fiction and fantasy and of themselves are problematic, such as conservative religions

13:51:28 tichure : and of course you have the Star Trek people, and don’t get me started on that

13:51:32 tichure : at least not right now.

13:52:00 tichure : The idea is that you are analyzing the work not to show me how awesome That work is and how much I should like it as much as you do.

13:52:26 tichure : you are analyzing the work to demonstrate why the work itself has people who love us and people who hate it, people who agree with it, and people who disagree with it etc.

13:54:05 tichure : you’ll notice also that the first paper assignment includes a very specific list of critical perspectives. This list is focusing on the more basic and more often used critical analyses and therefore it is likely that your first draft will not have that contrarian view. However, you will have at least one contrarian view, one viewpoint that goes against the claim made in the work, by the end of the semester

13:54:10 tichure : is everybody clear so far

13:54:37 Ranin : yes 

13:54:55 Celeste : Yes

13:56:03 tichure : both Mondays between1 t and 230 and Wednesday evenings between seven and nine, we will talk about your paper specifically

13:56:19 tichure : in other words, I will be here to help you clarify the critical perspectives and how it works for your particular work

13:56:27 tichure : what types of resources that you need to make that argument

13:56:43 tichure : so that you can develop your paper with sound arguments and proper resource material

13:57:20 tichure : I encourage you to interact with each other in terms of gathering that information, finding those resources. Again, you’re all writing your own paper, but you can share strategies and certainly being in contact with someone who’s covering the same topic will be helpful to get some feedback before I grade it

13:57:48 tichure : so let’s talk about the critical perspectives for the first paper

13:58:14 tichure : one of the most common critical perspectives applied is Marxist criticism. There are two types of Marxist criticism. One of them discusses class conflict, which will get to. The other is one that is most often applied and that has to do with the author/director’s point.

13:58:22 tichure : This is why I want you to get a biography.

13:59:01 tichure : The Marxist criticism is going to explain to me what the author’s point is, how the author is trying to get across (a poem, a song, a movie), and to whom that work is directed

13:59:10 tichure : you can always apply a Marxist criticism as long as you have information about the author

13:59:26 tichure : it is the only time in which you explain to me who the author is and how the work is relevant to the author

14:00:02 tichure : and you have to distinguish between an autobiographical work and one that is merely expressing their views.

14:00:15 tichure : So who has done research on their author?

14:00:24 Ranin : I have 

14:00:30 tichure : What is your topic again Ranin

14:00:35 Ranin : Dear mama

14:00:43 tichure : is the author talking about himself personally in the song

14:00:55 tichure : did the things that he’s talking about actually happen to him

14:01:00 Ranin : is life and his mom

14:01:02 Ranin : his

14:01:06 Ranin : yes

14:01:08 tichure : yes

14:01:30 tichure : you could do a biographical criticism. Biographical criticism is a critical analysis that simply establishes that what is portrayed in the work is actually true for the author

14:01:36 tichure : but you cannot do both biographical and Marxist criticism

14:01:51 tichure : because the only difference between these two for your work is that the Marxist criticism also includes the author’s opinions about these issues

14:02:04 tichure : and since most people want to explain to me what the author was trying to say and why, they end up doing Marxist criticism anyway

14:02:25 tichure : but you still are required to give us the biographical information that establishes that he was out on the streets at 17, that his mother had a crack problem, that he ended up in prison, that he tried selling narcotics with the gangs etc.

14:02:32 tichure : all of that stuff is documented. All of that stuff is true.

14:02:43 tichure : You are using your research to establish that what he claims in the song is true for HIM in that Marxist criticism

14:02:49 tichure : is anybody doing Pat Mora?

14:03:23 Ranin : Your talking about the perspective for the research paper? I was thinking cultural criticism

14:03:27 tichure : And keep in mind Ranin the only information I want about this author is that which is relevant to the song. Do not give me a biography of the author. You are only including information that is relevant to what is in the song.

14:03:36 tichure : Well we will get cultural criticism shortly

14:03:47 tichure : so hold onto that for a minute Ranin

14:03:56 Ranin : sure okay 

14:04:13 tichure : is anybody doing Edgar Allen Poe or Charlotte Perkins Gilman or Pat Mora

14:05:39 tichure : the works by these three authors are related to their experience in life, but they are not autobiographical. Even the Gilman work, which is a reflection of her experience with the malady that is described in the story, is not the same as what is depicted in the story. You cannot make the claim that the author is living the experience depicted in the work because that’s not true. Instead, your Marxist analysis is going to explain something about their life that led them to write a fictional story about fictional people in order to make a point to society about an issue that they care about

14:06:14 tichure : Gilman was not married to Dr., she was not locked up in a room, and she did not go insane, all of which did happen to her character. Moreover, her name is not Jane and her husband’s name is not John.

14:06:52 tichure : likewise, Pat Mora is neither an illegal immigrant, nor is she a border patrol agent. She’s familiar with the issue as a feminist Latinx, but she’s not explaining something that happened to her. Your information about her politics will explain why she’s writing the story the way that she does.

14:07:28 tichure : Marxist criticism is a great way to start because it really focuses on the author or director and allows you to explain what the person who created the work is trying to say. It is the only time you’re going to focus on that author or director on the first paper.

14:07:49 tichure : everybody with me so far?

14:07:59 tichure : any questions concerning your topic choice on this issue?

14:08:00 Ranin : yes

14:08:01 Celeste : Yes

14:08:41 tichure : Now there are a series of objective critical perspectives. These are objective in the sense that they’re not really explaining anybody’s opinion.

14:09:04 tichure : For example, Marxist criticism explains the author or director’s opinion. Your focus is to explain why the work was created in the first place

14:09:46 tichure : however, there are a couple of critical perspectives that simply are statistical in nature. One of them as I mentioned before is biographical criticism, which is really only applicable to a work that is autobiographical and for the list that you have, is only applicable to dear mama. Again, you cannot do biographical AND Marxist criticism on that work, because they are too similar, but you could do one or the other

14:09:56 tichure : the other objective critical perspectives are historical and gender.

14:10:09 tichure : Historical criticism is a critical perspective that explains the setting in 
the backdrop of the issue being portrayed

14:10:24 tichure : this is where you would get statistical information and explain what’s going on in the story.

14:11:25 tichure : For Pat Mora, you would explain the realities of the border issue, including the duties and roles of the border patrol, the means by which people cross illegally from Mexico, the statistics on claims and convictions for sexual assault by the border patrol on immigrants, and even more specific detail, such as inaccuracies portrayed in the poem

14:13:11 tichure : for Tupac Shakur, you would be focusing on the work as a depiction of an entire group of people. You would use statistical information to establish that was being portrayed as accurate for a group of people (not just for the author). Instead of explaining who the author is and what the author experience, you’d be explaining that statistically, young African-Americans raised by single mother in poverty are going to be most likely among the entire population in the United States to drop out of school, to be arrested or incarcerated, to be arrested for drug use or sales, to provide monetarily to the family upkeep, and to have little or no contact with her father. This group also is more likely to be involved in gangs

14:13:27 tichure : you would not mention the author. You would use statistic to explain 
that this is an accurate depiction of a group of people.

14:13:45 tichure : That’s why you need that contextual secondary source information. You need to know what’s going on at the time and with the realities are at the time.

14:13:57 tichure : For Gilman, you need to know what life is like for women in the 1890s in this country.

14:14:12 tichure : You need to know why this guy can hold his wife in this room and she just doesn’t get up and leave.

14:14:21 tichure : Does anybody know when women got the vote in this country?

14:14:44 Ranin : 1920?

14:14:48 tichure : That is correct

14:15:11 tichure : women not only did not have the right to vote, they generally were not put on juries, the generally did not make law (although there was a woman in the House of Representatives for my think like Montana or something prior to women getting the vote)

14:15:32 tichure : when a woman got married back then, she was legally the property of her husband, in both her finances, her holdings, and her body

14:15:51 tichure : there was no such thing as spousal abuse or spousal rape in terms of law

14:16:05 tichure : and if your husband is also a doctor, he can have you committed to an  asylum with a signature

14:16:11 tichure : which creates a very specific situation

14:16:17 tichure : and of course would be explained with historical criticism.

14:16:35 tichure : Likewise, understanding the realities of living in the upper-class in the 19th century is important to understanding cask of amontillado

14:17:04 tichure : you need to know what a Mason is. You need to understand where they are in society. You need to know what catacomb is and why there were dead people and wine in the same place

14:17:16 tichure : you would need to understand why amontillado is so important to the character

14:17:30 tichure : and of course you would need to understand why these two upper-class people still see a difference between themselves

14:17:37 tichure : historical criticism is an excellent way to translate your work

14:17:41 tichure : but it does not apply to everything

14:17:49 tichure : if you’re doing Star Wars, there is no history there.

14:17:53 tichure : Obviously, it’s not real

14:18:02 tichure : it does not occur in any particular era or place that we can establish fact

14:18:42 tichure : it is true that the author is making reference to historical realities, such as his use of Nazi imagery for the Empire. When Lucas wrote this, he was using both Hitler and Richard Nixon as the focal points for the bad guys in this movie

14:18:57 tichure : but that’s described in Marxist criticism, not historical criticism. This has to do with his vision rather than simple historical realities

14:19:22 tichure : any questions about that application

14:19:46 tichure : by the way, if you like a work but haven’t really researched it, historical criticism and your research of it is a great way to really understand the complexities of the issue depicted in her work

14:19:58 tichure : and your research will really help you to understand the work itself much more clearly

14:22:47 tichure : so let’s talk about response based critical perspectives

14:23:00 tichure : cultural criticism is not a description of the culture in the work

14:23:06 tichure : cultural criticism is a translation from a culture of the work

14:23:12 tichure : so

14:23:26 tichure : you identify specific culture, either a religion ethnicity or political group

14:23:33 tichure : and you would find information about what they believe

14:23:38 tichure : what they think is true and not true

14:23:43 tichure : what they think is right and what they think is wrong

14:23:51 tichure : you are not likely to find their opinions about your work specifically

14:23:57 tichure : but they will give opinions about the context

14:24:01 tichure : depicted in the work

14:24:07 tichure : so for those doing dear mama

14:24:32 tichure : conservative religions, those who are in law enforcement, and those who are concerned with child welfare would probably disagree with the author that the woman described is a good mother

14:24:56 tichure : likewise, border patrol and those who are against illegal immigration are likely going to disagree with Pat Mora when she claims in her poem that the border patrol is the bad guys and the illegal immigrant is the good guys

14:25:34 tichure : a cultural criticism requires that you speak for the culture that you have chosen and you explain what they like and/or dislike about the work that you’ve chosen. E

14:26:04 tichure : Obviously, you can do more than one cultural perspective. In fact, your entire paper due at the end of the semester could be four different Cultural perspectives

14:26:15 tichure : because each cultural perspective is a different viewpoint

14:26:41 tichure : certainly understanding something about the groups described in 
your story or movie or poem is important to establish how you might translate this work

14:26:51 tichure : and you might find information that would surprise you.

14:27:12 Ranin : I'm a bit confused, so for my second response, I took a stance on cultural criticism talking about racial bias and minorities and how it affected the African American society

14:27:23 tichure : For example, there are two groups of feminists concerning Star Wars, especially the first movie. There are older feminists who basically find it to be sexist, with only one female character who, despite her high standing as a princess, is constantly belittled and controlled by men.

14:27:32 tichure : ranin In what context

14:27:52 tichure : remember cultural criticism, and any criticism that you do, always comes back to translating the work

14:28:30 Ranin : dear mama I was speaking on how his lyrics present cultural criticism

14:29:10 Ranin : and I found sources on EBSCOhost and gale ebooks to support

14:29:27 tichure : when you say something like “his lyrics do something” you are doing Marxist criticism if you’re focusing on anything that has to do with saying “this author said this”

14:29:35 tichure : a cultural criticism is not a discussion of what the author intended

14:29:44 tichure : a cultural criticism is the analysis from outside group looking at the work

14:29:47 tichure : so for example

14:29:56 tichure : can you think of a cultural group that would agree that the woman 
being depicted deserves praise

14:30:18 tichure : that despite her drug use, she is doing good work

14:31:24 Ranin : African American that was common among them

14:31:28 tichure : by the way folks, one aspect of cultural criticism has to do with being specific. You cannot lump all Americans together

14:31:44 tichure : and you cannot lump all African-Americans together. Do you think that every African-American would agree with the lifestyle that’s depicted here?

14:32:09 Ranin : So I have to be broad?

14:32:59 tichure : You cannot lump all Latinxes together. In fact, you cannot lump all Mexican-Americans together. For those of you doing Pat Mora, you will find that there are Mexican-Americans who are AGAINST illegal immigration because it is being unfair to members of their families who went through the process correctly and is also  giving others in America the notion that all people both Latinx descent got here illegally

14:33:11 tichure : no nyou have to be narrow

14:33:27 tichure : otherwise you’re assuming that all African-Americans were either raised in poverty or somehow agree that the drug use and the criminality are all okay

14:34:08 tichure : and I will tell you right now that given the African-Americans who are strongly religious, those who are strongly Republican, and those who are middle and upper class who which to separate themselves from a stereotype, they have a problem with works that praise behaviors that they themselves would not want any members of their families to engage in

14:34:29 tichure : and therefore you would have to narrow it down to African-Americans raised in a particular cultural mindset or experience

14:34:56 tichure : in fact  you are more likely to find that people who were raised in poverty as a group are more likely to universally support the claim made in the song then any specific ethnic culture would support the song

14:35:12 Ranin : oh okay I see I was mainly focusing on Shakur and his family 

14:35:19 tichure : because those raised in poverty, regardless of race, or more likely to recognize what it takes to survive in a hostile environment, are more likely to agree that dropping out of school to go to work is a better idea than staying in school

14:35:25 tichure : and that’s exactly my point Ranin

14:35:29 tichure : cultural criticism has nothing to do with the author

14:35:41 tichure : you will not mention the author other than to cite quotation of the song.

14:35:48 tichure : Cultural criticism is an outside view of the work

14:36:10 tichure : it is a group of people looking at the song and saying “this is what we think of what’s being said” and it does not take into account whether this work is autobiographical or not. It doesn’t matter who wrote it because they do not care

14:36:14 tichure : they’re looking at the issue

14:36:17 tichure : and they are saying

14:36:18 tichure : we agree

14:36:21 tichure : or we disagree

14:36:25 tichure : the same goes for Pat Mora

14:36:43 tichure : if you do cultural perspective from the border patrol, they are immediately going to say that some of what she claims that the poem is factually incorrect

14:36:48 Ranin : Oh okay I was way off I submitted my response 2 based off the wrong idea, I'll have to edit it then 

14:37:10 tichure : and they’re also going to say that yeah there are a few bad apples who been accused of and convicted of sexual assault, but they spend a lot more time rescuing immigrants who’ve been sexually assaulted, robbed and left for dead by the very people that they hire to get them across the border

14:37:27 tichure : when you’re doing a cultural criticism, you are not taking into account who the author is at all

14:37:36 tichure : you are simply looking at what the work itself says and how that group would respond to it

14:37:43 tichure : one) do they agree that what is portrayed happens

14:37:51 tichure : 2 do they agree with the editorial or message in the overall work

14:38:02 tichure : would impoverish people agreed that what is portrayed in dear mama actually occurs

14:38:21 tichure : would upper-class people agree that what is portrayed in dear mama actually occurs

14:38:30 tichure : would the police agree that what is portrayed in dear mama actually occurs

14:38:44 tichure : the answer is  yes to all three

14:38:47 tichure : but

14:38:52 tichure : do they all agree that it’s okay

14:39:04 tichure : do they agree that this is the way things SHOULD be?

14:39:14 tichure : That’s where the different cultural translations give us different answers

14:39:18 tichure : and therefore give us different analyses

14:39:20 Ranin : Okay now I'm beginning to understand this way better thank you

14:39:48 tichure : cultural criticism is probably the most difficult early translation 
because many people think it is a chance to explain the culture of the author or the culture being portrayed

14:39:55 tichure : and really it is an analysis from a specific cultural viewpoint

14:40:04 tichure : which, like I said, opens it up to a broad range.

14:40:22 From Cyril Ng to tichure(Direct Message) : will this chat be archived for later review?

14:40:24 tichure : If you translated this from the  police culture,  would they like this poem

14:40:35 tichure : yes Cyril. This will be archived

14:40:50 tichure : if you translated this poem from the Department of Social Services 
would they like the poem and agree with what it says

14:40:56 tichure : all of these groups would agree that this stuff HAPPENS

14:41:02 tichure : but they would not agree as to whether or not it’s okay

14:41:10 tichure : and that’s where you get this different translation

14:41:25 tichure : and  this is where you can show how different people would respond to this work differently

14:41:41 tichure : good Lord  look at the time

14:41:45 tichure : folks, you have an assignment

14:41:49 tichure : well you have two assignments

14:41:52 tichure : first

14:41:56 tichure : you must choose a topic work

14:42:02 tichure : and do it immediately

14:42:04 tichure : second

14:42:09 tichure : you must begin working on your annotated works cited

14:42:18 tichure : because if you cannot find the research that you need, you will have to choose a different work

14:42:39 tichure : Wednesday evenings between 7 and 9 PM, we talk about the research paper.

14:42:48 Ranin : sounds good, thank you

14:43:02 tichure : You may also join us tomorrow at the same time if you have questions or you want to talk about your paper specifically

14:43:28 tichure : once you’ve made a choice, we can start discussing your paper specifically as I’ve been doing with Ranin

14:43:41 tichure : and obviously, those of you working on dear mama will find this conversation especially relevant

14:43:43 tichure : but

14:43:51 tichure : the general conversation also informs WHATEVER work you choose

14:43:58 tichure : because the rules of the critical perspectives apply no matter what

14:44:06 tichure : if you have any questions, please send me an email

14:44:09 tichure : otherwise, have a great week

14:45:07 tichure : Samantha, Cyril  do you have any questions

14:45:41 Samantha : Is this chat saved?

14:45:50 tichure : well it’s going to be posted on the archive

14:45:57 tichure : or you can copy and paste it right now if you want

14:46:12 Cyril : thank you

14:46:15 tichure : you got it
14:46:23 Samantha : A lot of information was given im just trying to wrap my head around it

14:46:34 Cyril : I do not I was confuse before but it explain my assignment much better

14:46:49 tichure : understandable Samantha. And once you’ve chosen a topic, 
everything that we talk about will have more clarity

14:47:07 tichure : glad  it worked out Cytil

14:47:13 Samantha : Ok thank you

14:47:14 tichure : Cyril

14:47:23 tichure : you’re welcome Samantha

14:47:26 tichure : have a great week

14:47:33 tichure : poof