19:06:04 Patricia : hi professor 19:06:26 tichure : Hi Patricia. Hows things coming along? 19:06:50 Patricia : Things have been going well, I think I finished the 3rd body paragraph of my essay, but I wanted to run through my outline 19:07:27 tichure : Okay. 19:07:34 tichure : What are the three critical perspectives that you’re applying 19:07:37 tichure : so far 19:07:53 Patricia : Currently, I have historical, cultural, and marxist 19:08:39 Patricia : I was thinking of writing about drinking culture (if that counts) 19:08:53 tichure : which culture did you do already 19:09:02 tichure : culture of drinking is a culture 19:09:13 tichure : what kind of resources would you use? And what would they say about the story 19:10:19 Patricia : I did drinking culture, specifically how an alcoholic would react to the piece. I have a resource from a scientific source that goes over the scientific negative effects of drinking and another source from someone who detailed their struggle with drinking 19:10:30 tichure : so you’re talking really about AA culture 19:10:36 tichure : which is talking about the negative effects 19:10:41 Patricia : I wanted to argue that someone who struggled with alcohol would sympathize with Fortunato. yes 19:10:45 tichure : because drinking culture is a culture that likes drinking and celebrates it. They don’t see it as a problem 19:11:03 Patricia : Ah, then yes, I am approaching from AA culture 19:11:04 tichure : they would understand that in not only cultures of bygone eras, but in many cultures today, offering someone a drink is a matter of propriety\ 19:11:16 tichure : yes. In fact you could translate it from both of those cultures, but it would be two separate paragraphs. 19:11:19 tichure : But here’s the problem 19:11:26 tichure : I’m guessing you’re doing Poe 19:11:29 Patricia : yes 19:11:32 tichure : There is no indication that Fortunato is an alcoholic. 19:11:50 tichure : Remember that this is a celebratory time. Everyone is imbibing in whatever they can because on Ash Wednesday, they have 40 days of abstinence from everything that would be joyful 19:11:52 tichure : including alcohol 19:12:01 Patricia : So I can only apply a culture that is present in the piece? 19:12:04 tichure : with the exception of the reality that they would drink alcohol with their meals because you can’t drink the water 19:12:10 tichure : but they would not drink to the point of inebriation. 19:12:20 tichure : Basically, Fortunato is binge drinking, which would be appropriate for the situation. 19:12:34 tichure : The AA person, however, might have a problem with it because it might send the message that binge drinking is okay 19:12:58 tichure : so you have to make sure you don’t step outside the grounds of what the story is imparting here. Certainly Montresor is using the inebriated state of Fortunato, and compounding it with more alcohol, in order to keep him from thinking clearly 19:13:20 tichure : and certainly the AA person, especially if they have done bad acts while under the influence, would then focus on the fact that a person who is inebriated is not thinking clearly, rather than focusing on alcohol as an addiction say 19:13:26 tichure : per se 19:13:31 tichure : do you see the distinction 19:14:11 Patricia : yes, so I should make sure that I don’t bring addiction into my arguement/analysis 19:17:13 tichure : Your first paper only needs two critical perspectives. 19:18:21 Patricia : The reason I did 3 was because I wasn’t sure if the cultural one would work and I reasoned that if it was fine, I could use it for the final version 19:19:01 Patricia : I’ve been trying to think of one for a 4th — I wanted to write about the irony behind Montresor’s words but I couldn’t find a critical perspective that it would fit under 19:19:08 Patricia : I was thinking maybe deconstruction? 19:19:10 tichure :your cultural crit choice certainly is appropriate. However, think of it this way. 19:19:26 tichure : Cultural criticism applies to everything because you can always find a group that either likes or dislikes a work for specific reasons. This is the matter of finding your material as support. 19:19:34 tichure : So let’s talk about deconstruction. 19:19:40 tichure : What is your understanding of what deconstruction is? 19:20:30 Patricia : I think of deconstruction as analyzing the words of a piece. Specifically, analyzing all the different ways a phrase or word can be translated/interpreted/read 19:20:44 tichure : That is exactly correct. It is usually appropriate for a poem or something that’s relatively short that uses specific types of generalized words that can be retranslated to have different meanings. 19:21:04 tichure : For example, are you familiar with Wilfred Owens “disabled” 19:21:27 Patricia : I remember seeing it in the primary sources of week 1 19:22:21 tichure : well basically, and if you want go to over deconstruction, which is perfectly fine with me, I would have you read it will quickly 19:22:24 tichure : real quickly 19:22:30 tichure : and then we’ll talk about what the author meant 19:22:35 tichure : and then we would talk about how you would deconstruct it 19:23:19 Patricia : Sounds good, I’ll let you know when I finish reading it 19:23:39 tichure : the problem with applying deconstruction to a much longer work is that you’re going to have to find words that are repeated throughout the work that you can use to create a brand-new complete and cohesive argument. In other words, deconstruction is not making the work into nonsense. It’s applying a translation that makes a complete new work 19:24:53 tichure : there was a guy named Jacques Derrida. He was raised in Algeria. Algeria was invaded by and taken over by the French during the 1800s. You had both Arab Algerians, speaking Arabic and French Algerians, speaking French, living together. He grew up there. He realized that when people were talking to each other, they misinterpreted what the other person meant because they translated the words differently. This is a joke that runs between people who speak American English and people who speak either Canadian English or British English. That’s because words like boot, rubber and bonnet mean something different between the two countries 19:25:49 tichure : is a British person says “I put my rubbers in my boot” they mean that they put their waterproof boots in their trunk of their car. To an American, that means putting condoms in his working shoes. 19:26:44 Patricia : I see, also I finished 19:27:31 tichure : Okay 19:27:34 tichure : what is the author’s point 19:27:48 tichure : and by the way, this author was in World War I, and he was injured, but not in the way that the character in the poem is. 19:27:55 tichure : So it’s not autobiographical 19:28:05 tichure : what happened to the main character 19:28:12 tichure : and what was his life before he went to war 19:29:08 Patricia : Well, I guess first is he was physically injured during the war (lost his legs) and before the war, he was more joyful and lively 19:30:32 Patricia : but now, he is old and injured, and is now ignored by women (contrast to his youth) 19:30:43 tichure : that is correct 19:30:47 tichure : what is the reason that he joined the military 19:30:58 Patricia : meg 19:31:02 tichure : yes 19:31:06 tichure : was his life good before he went to war 19:31:10 tichure : was he popular with the ladies 19:31:15 Patricia : Yes 19:31:23 tichure : and what made him popular and famous? 19:31:32 Patricia : football and partying? 19:31:46 tichure : Well basically yes. This is in Britain, so football of course is soccer, and everybody drinks after a match. 19:32:01 tichure : In fact, he is drunk when he makes this decision. 19:32:06 tichure : What do you think the author’s point is 19:32:48 Patricia : Maybe the author wants to show the passage of time and the effects that war can have one someone’s life 19:33:24 tichure : that is correct 19:33:34 tichure : basically, Owen also volunteered 19:34:01 tichure : he suffered from shell shock and while he was in hospital, he saw what was going on around him. He realized that he, like other young recruits, were misinformed about the nature of war and its realities. He is criticizing the propaganda machine. 19:34:33 tichure : He was sent back to the front line and died a week or so before the war ended. These works were found later and published posthumously. All of them are about war and the way that young men are used and misused in military 19:34:36 tichure : so 19:34:43 tichure : now what you would do for a deconstruction is look for words that have a different meaning other than what is intended in the context that you saw 19:35:34 tichure : was there word that was in this there was clearly used in a way that is no longer use that way today 19:36:23 Patricia : “gay” “queer” ? 19:37:24 tichure : yes 19:37:25 tichure : so 19:37:30 tichure : go through this now 19:37:52 tichure : and translate this with the idea that the person is actually talking about a gay person in a society that does not allow homosexuality socially or legally. 19:38:05 tichure : How many of the phrases can be re-translated to indicate how a gay man might feel in society? 19:38:34 tichure : If it is only one or two, then the deconstruction doesn’t work. If there are quite a number of them, then the deconstruction would work very well. 19:42:04 Patricia : hmm, the only thing that sticks out immediately is the last paragraph “do what things the rules consider wise” maybe even “he will spend a few sick years in institutes” (not sure if homosexuality was still considered a mental illness at that time) 19:43:07 tichure : it was. 19:43:18 tichure : What is the main character looking at and listening to as he sits in the room? 19:43:24 tichure : Who or what 19:43:57 Patricia : he’s listening to the voices of boys 19:44:10 tichure : yes 19:44:18 tichure : translate that within the context 19:45:49 Patricia : It could be that he’s interested in them? maybe reminiscing when he was younger and also amongst other boys? 19:45:55 tichure : of course 19:46:21 tichure : I’m not sure how much you know about the gay community, but have you have ever heard of something called “gaydar” 19:47:15 Patricia : it’s where someone judges if someone is gay based on their voice 19:47:40 tichure : it’s more like vibe ovewrall 19:47:49 Patricia : right 19:48:11 tichure : who in poem seems to know that the man would be uninterested in them 19:48:37 Patricia : could you rephrase your question? 19:49:03 tichure : look at the phrase in which he discusses how women now respond to him 19:49:17 tichure : within the new context, why would they treat him this way? Why would they respond to him this way? 19:49:47 Patricia : they ignore him and go towards other men. within the new context, it could be because they can sense he is gay 19:50:21 tichure : exactly 19:50:35 tichure : would he have opportunities for marriage 19:51:09 Patricia : probably not 19:51:13 tichure : in a world that homosexuality is outlawed, punishable by imprisonment, what is his future? 19:51:39 Patricia : he would probably end up alone or risk being punished 19:51:43 tichure : What part of the soldier was injured? 19:51:53 Patricia : his legs 19:52:02 tichure : Translate that within the sexual context 19:52:30 tichure : you can throw the Arm in there as well 19:52:50 tichure : how does a gay man feel in a society of heterosexuals? 19:53:37 Patricia : since he has very little lower mobility, it would make sex very difficult? I guess the “care of arms” could be referring to masturbation? and being a gay man would probably make him feel ostracized and alone 19:53:48 tichure : Well remember 19:53:53 tichure : this is now not about a man who was injured in war 19:54:04 tichure : this is about a gay man living in a heterosexual world 19:54:17 tichure : he physically has legs, but is he “functional” as he would like to be below the waist 19:54:23 tichure : in fact, has in society hampered him 19:54:25 Patricia : Oh, it could be that it feels like he has no mobility in general because he is bound by his “gayness” 19:54:29 tichure : he cannot move about as he would like to 19:54:32 tichure : exactly 19:54:42 Patricia : i mean social mobility 19:54:45 tichure : deconstruction takes these words and phrases and re-translates them to create a completely new story. 19:54:56 tichure : In fact, what would the war or battle be for this man? It’s not World War I anymore 19:55:14 Patricia : It would be the war of being gay in a heterosexual society? 19:56:55 tichure : very good 19:57:00 tichure : who gets injured in this war 19:57:37 Patricia : the protagonist 19:58:15 tichure : well 19:58:19 tichure : and all gay men 19:58:24 tichure : and all homosexual people generally 19:58:38 tichure : by referencing the arm and the legs, we can then use that to talk about both the mobility and ability 19:58:50 tichure : individuals would not only be restricted in their movements, but also be restricted and discriminated against in employment 19:58:58 tichure : do you see how deconstruction works? 19:59:15 Patricia : Yes 19:59:34 tichure : Now interestingly, the author was actually gay. We would use this same kind of translation and information as a psychoanalytical criticism to claim that he is, through subtext, discussing his homosexual situation rather than the plight of a physically injured person. However, since you did not know that, you are simply deconstructing the words to come up with a logical translation. 19:59:36 tichure : So 19:59:39 tichure : the question 19:59:46 tichure : how would you apply this to something as extensive as the story 20:00:17 tichure : what phrases and words could you retransfer away to create a completely different meaning for the story? Remember this is not about symbolism. It’s about taking the actual words and phrases and retransmitting them within the context of the dictionary or encyclopedia to create new meaning 20:01:07 tichure : what words or phrases would you re-translate in a way to create a completely different meaning for the story 20:03:10 Patricia : Maybe Montresors arms “A huge human foot d'or, in a field azure; the foot crushes a serpent rampant whose fangs are imbedded in the heel.” 20:03:29 Patricia : seems like it could be read from a biblical context, but I’m still trying to find other quotes 20:04:10 Patricia : “arrived at a deep crypt, in which the foulness of the air caused our flambeaux rather to glow than flame.” could maybe be seen as a description of hell? 20:04:57 tichure : reading is from specific cultural context like the Bible is actually cultural criticism. In fact, there are several analyses available through Ebscohost and Gale that translate this from a specific Catholic perspective, including the notion of the use of three, as well as the position of Fortunato, in which he is hung up Christlike on the wall 20:05:15 tichure : and so a Christian my read this as a descent into hell 20:05:32 tichure : as well as identifying the other Catholic/Christian references 20:05:45 tichure : but that wouldn’t be deconstruction 20:05:54 Patricia : hmm, then I have a quick question 20:05:59 tichure : sure 20:06:27 Patricia : for “disabled” wouldnt that be cultural context from LGBTQ+ culture? 20:07:28 tichure : it could be 20:07:35 tichure : and it could be a psychoanalytical criticism on the author 20:07:37 tichure : but 20:07:45 tichure : and this the important factor 20:07:57 tichure : deconstruction is based on the translation of specific words and phrases rather than the overall context 20:08:09 tichure : deconstruction is all about wordplay 20:08:23 tichure : you are using the descriptions of the situations to say this refers to a thing 20:08:30 tichure : instead of saying this word also means that 20:08:36 tichure : for example 20:08:49 tichure : what does the word season referred to in the story 20:09:06 Patricia : season refers to the carnival 20:09:14 tichure : yes 20:09:25 tichure : it refers to a specific time of year 20:09:34 tichure : what else does the word season mean 20:09:54 Patricia : season food to add flavor? 20:09:57 tichure : yes 20:10:28 tichure : translating it from a Christian perspective allows you to use the entire context to say this means a descent into hell or to even point out that they would think both characters are going to hell because they broke and just about every one of the commandments and most of the deadly sins 20:10:41 tichure : which is not about translating words for meaning but rather re- translating it through context to create new meanings. 20:10:55 tichure : When we were doing the " disabled" poem, we were focusing on words and phrases 20:11:14 tichure : when we talk about somebody “missing legs” or something like this it also means being immobile or not being able to move forward 20:11:40 tichure : in other words, with deconstruction, we are stuck with translating specific words and phrases in order to make deconstruction work 20:11:58 tichure : so your analysis is not a bad one saying this could be symbolic for someone going to hell 20:12:20 tichure : but it would be a Christian perspective rather than a deconstruction perspective because you’re not focusing on changing the meanings of words that exist in the work as much is your saying that the context overall refers to this experience 20:12:34 tichure : do you see what I mean 20:12:44 Patricia : Yes 20:13:00 Patricia : how about this one (I’m not sure how this could be interpreted) 20:13:22 tichure : go for it 20:13:39 Patricia : but he uses “labour” a lot at the end to describe finishing the murder and he begins by asking if Fortunato is engaged or has an engagement. 20:13:55 tichure : okay 20:14:30 tichure : so this is about a romantic relationship 20:14:35 tichure : that ends in pregnancy? 20:15:37 Patricia : I was maybe thinking that Montresor’s task to kill Fortunato is his baby that he has been planning, like how a mother is pregnant 20:15:42 tichure : you could used the phrase “build a wall” as a way to indicate that they are having trouble communicating 20:15:51 tichure : or blocking off the memory of the individual 20:16:01 tichure : Fortunato means fortunate one 20:16:08 tichure : and Montresor means my treasure 20:16:20 tichure : which you might be able to work into that 20:16:33 tichure : and then you look for other phrases that indicate this is about that type of relationship rather than someone trying to kill someone 20:16:42 tichure : you’re on the right track. 20:17:29 tichure : Check it out and see if you can find other phrases from the story that would work within that context, either that this is a relationship between a father and on (unwanted?) Pregnancy or between a man and his lover? 20:17:40 tichure : That would be interesting 20:17:57 Patricia : sounds good, I’ll work on that over the week 20:18:33 Patricia : one last question 20:18:49 tichure : go for it 20:18:51 Patricia : this is going back to the cultural criticism paragraph about drinking 20:18:56 tichure : yes 20:19:31 Patricia : if I approach it from an AA culture, and I am just focusing on the negative affects of alcohol (like not being able to have full control over words or actions), 20:19:57 Patricia : I would still start by saying that I am approaching from an AA culture even though I don’t plan on touching the alcoholic/addiction side of the AA culture? 20:21:02 tichure : well, I am not sure how familiar you are with that particular culture, but one of the elements is that you must atone to others that you hurt 20:21:21 tichure : does Fortunato ever say that he is sorry 20:21:38 tichure : and what effect does that have on how others may treat him? 20:21:51 tichure : What would be the alcoholics version of being chained up in that catacomb? 20:23:43 Patricia : no; I guess being chained to the catacombs could parallel addiction to alcohol, or a more closer parallel could be being blocked by the people who they’ve hurt and being alone? 20:23:50 tichure : yes 20:23:52 tichure : both 20:24:00 tichure : In fact, I’m going to modify what I said 20:24:57 tichure : I suppose you could look at this from an addict’s perspective, in that the addict, especially the recovered addict, sees addiction everywhere. They may very well see Fortunato as an addict, as reflected in his previous behavior that is indicated by Montresor. You can run with the idea that someone in AA would say Fortunato has a problem, and Montresor is his past coming to fruition 20:25:24 tichure : with both the offerings of alcohol but also the imprisonment for not only having alcohol, but also searching for the ideal alcohol… What addicts call “chasing the Dragon” 20:26:04 tichure : what seems to be a kind individual (Montresor) is actually someone who is manipulating him, using his addiction against him. This is the same thing as that dealer who offers the first samples free in order to create the addict, and then exacts greater and greater costs on future deliveries 20:26:38 tichure : Montresor would seem to be " a treasure" in the same way that a dealer seems to be a treasure to an addict 20:26:41 tichure : if that makes sense 20:27:07 Patricia : Yes, that makes sense 20:27:14 tichure : I think it’s a good argument 20:27:33 tichure : and I think it’s supportable, using both material from AA and also anecdotal material from people who’ve been addicted (to anything) 20:27:46 tichure : you find that stuff on Ebscohost 20:28:02 tichure : and certainly the fact that they’re going deeper and deeper 20:28:07 tichure : and going underground 20:28:20 tichure : both phrases that refer to (especially) the narcotics world 20:28:29 tichure : but also someone who is falling deeper and deeper into the addiction itself 20:28:35 tichure : that would also be a very interesting argument 20:28:49 Patricia : Cool, looks like I have a good amount of things I need to rewrite, but this has been really helpful! 20:28:58 tichure : excellent Patricia. 20:31:00 tichure : Anything else I can help you with? 20:31:25 Patricia : I think that’s it for today, but I will definitely email you if anything pops up during the week! 20:31:39 tichure : Excellent. Have a great evening and let me know if you need anything else. 20:31:49 Patricia : you too! 20:31:58 tichure : poof