19:04:15 From tichure : hey now folks 19:04:25 From Jonathan hello 19:04:31 From Micaela : hello(: 19:04:34 From gaby : Hello! 19:04:40 From Jonathan : hello all 19:05:10 From tichure : the purpose of today’s chat is to answer any question you have so far and get you moving on your annotated works cited 19:05:47 From tichure : have you all read the archive intro chat for your class? 19:06:21 From Jonathan : I have not 19:06:23 From Micaela : I read the Start Here Module, is that the same thing? 19:07:29 From tichure : no 19:07:33 From gaby : I started reading it, but I was not sure if it was there as reference for this class or just history for that specific class 19:07:56 From tichure : http://www.englit.org/eiland_shared/chat/list.htm 19:08:01 From tichure : that is the archive 19:08:08 From tichure : it will be updated periodically 19:08:42 From Jonathan : thank you. 19:09:02 From Micaela : Thank you. 19:09:08 From tichure : i have series of archived chats from pervious classes that address the main points in the course 19:09:30 From tichure : when one of our chats yields something good i post it 19:09:59 From tichure : the intro goes over what you have read so far and further explains the assignments 19:10:13 From tichure : as well as discussing the critical perspectives and how they apply 19:10:40 From tichure : your first assignment is to choose a topic for the research paper you will be building through the course 19:10:40 From gaby : Ah, now I understand. I was not sure if the archive was for each chat beginning this semester or just information in general about the course. Thanks for clearing that up! 19:11:22 From tichure : who here is in 213? 19:11:32 From tichure : who here is in 103? 19:11:40 From Micaela : I am in 213 19:11:40 From Jonathan : 103 for me 19:11:41 From gaby : 103 here 19:12:12 From tichure : what i tell you about annotated works the outline and the two research drafts is the same for ALLL 19:12:45 From Jonathan : good to know thanks 19:13:02 From tichure : The 103 class has responses and a test, which the 213 class does not. The 213 class has a presentation that the 103 does not. The critical perspectives of the same. The research process is the same. The level of standard for grammar and formatting is all same 19:13:08 From tichure : so most of what we talk about applies to everyone. 19:13:21 From tichure : Moreover, that presentation, those responses and that test are simply different versions of the same research process 19:13:41 From tichure : when there some kind of specificity in my answer that applies only to one of the courses, I will clarify in my answer. 19:13:53 From tichure : So let’s start with some basic elements. 19:14:03 From tichure : Does everyone understand that you’re building a single research paper over the course of the semester. 19:14:11 From Micaela : Yes. 19:14:12 From gaby : Yes 19:14:13 From Jonathan : yes I understand 19:15:09 From tichure : As part of that, you have to choose a topic from the approved list. for the 213, you look at the calendar on my website for a list of likely subjects, but if you any questions as to a topic you may you want to do, you send me email 19:15:26 From tichure : for 103, your list is on canvas. It is much smaller. You may not deviate from that list. 19:15:40 From tichure : For all of you, you must demonstrate that you can research the topic that you’ve chosen by creating the annotated work cited. That is your first assignment other than choosing the topic itself. 19:16:13 From tichure : It essentially is a litmus test that proves to me, but mostly to you, that you have college-level research material that will enable you to translate the work from, ultimately, four different perspectives. 19:16:17 From tichure : That’s why you have to choose carefully. 19:16:37 From tichure : The work that you choose must have depths and it must demonstrate some kind of worldview that is fairly clear. Otherwise, there’s nothing to talk about 19:16:52 From tichure : in your paper has to have a series of viewpoints. that is what critical theory is. 19:17:03 From tichure : None of those critical theories are going to be your personal response. Do not ever mention yourself in any of your work 19:17:39 From tichure : it doesn’t mean that a critical theory can’t reflect what you think, but in doing so, it will have to be filtered through one of the critical perspectives, which will reveal to you (if you don’t already know), certain aspects of your belief system. But none of it will be from personal perspective. 19:17:59 From tichure : In other words, you will have to have research for that “opinion” which will make it into a research paper, not just an opinion paper. 19:18:14 From tichure : Any questions so far 19:18:38 From gaby : With you so far 19:18:38 From Micaela : Where can I access your website to find the topics? Is it through Canvas? 19:18:48 From Micaela : for the 213 class 19:19:20 From tichure : http://www.englit.org/distance/engl213/calendar%20213F17.htm 19:19:27 From Micaela : Thank you Professor 19:22:04 From tichure : has anyone chosen a topic for their paper. I know only the first day, but some people already have an idea when they signed up for the course, especially a specific literary genre like horror 19:22:18 From tichure : and course for 103, it’s a fairly short list. 19:22:42 From Jonathan : I am leaning towards The Cask of Amontillado. 19:22:46 From tichure : What would be doing from week to week during his chat, if you choose to participate, is talk about YOUR paper. If you take the time to show up, we talk about what you need to do in order to finish your paper. 19:22:52 From tichure : A popular choice for both classes Jonathan. 19:23:07 From tichure : Obviously, it’s a good choice for Multiple reasons. First of all, it’s dense. 19:23:21 From tichure : it was written for a literary crowd, while also appealing to the new casual reader of the era. 19:23:31 From Jonathan : I 19:23:31 From tichure : Secondly, it’s nearly 200 years old. 19:23:51 From tichure : It has had a lot of research applied to it and you could write a dissertation on the story using Gale database alone. 19:24:01 From gaby : I am leaning towards Dear Mama, it was kind of a gut choice. But I want to make sure I can cover the criticism 19:24:01 From tichure : The same goes for the yellow wallpaper by Gilman 19:24:15 From gaby : Critical Perspectives* 19:24:38 From Jonathan : I enjoyed reading that in my younger days. I did think I was going to do a paper on Paranoid by Black Sabbath though ?? 19:24:46 From tichure : Gaby, everything on that list is researchable. Because many 103 students have not done a whole lot of literary analysis or critical theory analysis, the items on that list have not only the resource material, but also the range of applicable material for the critical perspectives that you’re required to apply. 19:24:49 From tichure : hahah 19:25:07 From tichure : pool song, but you cannot do a research paper on it because it’s too thin. There’s not enough material in their 19:25:15 From tichure : there 19:25:22 From tichure : cool song 19:25:38 From tichure : and since Ozzy Osbourne didn’t write it, you can’t even apply psychoanalytical criticism to the singer 19:25:53 From tichure : but we will burn that bridge (Psychoanalytical criticism) when we get to it. 19:26:01 From Micaela : I was thinking about doing The Rocky Horror Picture Show but there are a lot of good options! 19:26:07 From Jonathan : I’m looking forward to it 19:26:11 From tichure : which brings me to another point. 19:27:06 From tichure : I want you to look the critical perspectives that are named for the first paper, which is essentially the first half of the paper. These tend to be more toward either using statistical translations (biographical, historical, gender), author based analysis (Marxist) or obvious and well recognized response based critical perspectives (feminist, cultural). 19:27:17 From tichure : Save psychoanalytical criticism and other more complex criticisms for the second half of the paper. 19:27:40 From tichure : That’s why the critical perspectives are introduced in the order that they are. 19:27:47 From Jonathan : thanks for the advice 19:28:03 From tichure : Once you have grasped the ways and limitations of the more simplistic ones, it’ll make it easier to understand the complexities of something like psychoanalytical criticism or deconstruction. 19:28:33 From tichure : Everything that you folks have mentioned are good choices, but what you need is the research. Keep in mind that this is college-level research. You need to be using the resources that are provided through the library. 19:28:41 From tichure : When you go to the library webpage, there is a DATABASES link that will be helpful. 19:28:52 From tichure : There is also a set of libguides link to the bottom of page 19:29:35 From tichure : they are created for not only generalized courses, like 103 or children’s literature, but also for specific teachers. Because my classes tend to open the doors to a broader range of what qualifies as “quality” literature, the folks at the library have been kind enough to make more specialized material available for my courses. 19:29:41 From tichure : These will be helpful in finding material that you need to write your paper 19:29:49 From tichure : Ebscohost 19:29:51 From tichure : Gale 19:29:55 From tichure : JSTOR 19:30:02 From tichure : ProQuest 19:30:06 From tichure : plus 19:30:09 From tichure : YouTube 19:30:16 From tichure : for things like interviews and such. 19:30:31 From Jonathan : cool thanks 19:30:44 From gaby : I’ve browsed through ebscohost and gale so far. They are very helpful. 19:30:46 From tichure : If you want to figure out what was going on in the mind of the creator of Rocky Horror, you need to understand who Richard O’Brien was and what he was trying to do in order to apply something like a Marxist criticism. 19:31:30 From tichure : Well if you took it was 101, they should have shown you those, especially Gale and Ebscohost. moreover, your gonna come across Ebscohost, J STOR and ProQuest at every college you attend. 19:32:02 From tichure : BTW 19:32:06 From Micaela : Okay thank you 19:32:23 From tichure : if that chat closes, i will reopen it momentarily 19:32:39 From tichure : It is sending me some weird messages. 19:33:26 From tichure : in any case, this is your starting point. If you can run with what you had in mind, and you’re comfortable with sticking with this topic for the entire semester, get that process started with the annotated work cited. If you get stuck on thatresearch process, that should be a clue that you might want to choose something a bit more mainstream and accessible. 19:33:59 From tichure : Obviously, this is where we can have these conversations either here or through email to clarify specific resources and such. 19:34:03 From tichure : You cannot use Wikipedia. 19:34:07 From tichure : You cannot use Shmoop University 19:34:16 From tichure : you cannot use grade saver and other stuff like this. 19:34:29 From tichure : You cannot use student papers as research. The only types of “student” papers that are acceptable are published dissertations. 19:34:50 From tichure : The stuff that is on the databases that I mentioned is all reviewed and analyzed and essentially is college-level. 19:35:06 From tichure : That also means you cannot use blogs and other random websites unless they’re associated with a noted and published author. 19:35:22 From tichure : The idea is to get you used to the rigor that you’re going to be encountering when you go for your bachelors degree, your master’s degree, your doctorate or whatever level you intend to hit. 19:35:35 From tichure : And of course if you ever get a real job, your boss wants you to have some verifiable information 19:35:46 From tichure : and that’s part of the process of this course 19:35:55 From tichure : any questions so far 19:36:22 From Micaela : I think I am caught up 19:36:24 From gaby : So far so good! 19:36:42 From tichure : any questions? 19:37:08 From tichure : anything that was unclear as you went through the initial material? 19:37:12 From Jonathan : is the study app on iPhone reliable ? I see that pop up when I web search critical perspective on a topic 19:38:06 From tichure : I haven’t looked at it Jonathan. I’ll have to talk to research librarian and also look at it myself to see whether or not it is designed for college-level research Or it is designed to help high school students understand the basic plot of things. 19:38:30 From tichure : by the way, Google scholar seems to be gaining some strong credibility, but make sure that what you’re getting looks like real analysis rather than samples of student work and opinion. 19:39:16 From Jonathan : I’m not sure to be honest. I don’t to download it if it not up to standard 19:39:40 From tichure : I’ll check it out Jonathan. If you do decide to check it out, let me know you think 19:39:46 From tichure : this may crash any minute. I’ll be back. 19:39:50 From gaby : Thank you for your suggestions! This chat and your reference material has been very helpful. 19:39:59 From tichure : You’re welcome Gaby 19:40:09 From Micaela: Yes thank you! 19:40:18 From Jonathan : will do. and yes it is very helpful. 19:40:22 From tichure : I’ll be here every Wednesday between 7 and 9 PM unless I tell you different 19:41:16 From tichure : The due date in canvas is the legal due date by the way. 19:41:22 From tichure : It’s the “published” due date. 19:41:28 From tichure : To me by Monday. 19:42:33 From Jonathan : what do we do for the Bird assignment? I can’t seem to find the information 19:42:46 From gaby : Thank you for the clarification 19:44:18 From tichure : Not all assignments are assigned to every student. If you don’t see it Jonathan, then you don’t have to worry about it 19:44:54 From Jonathan : it shows in my canvas app. 19:45:18 From Micaela to tichure (Privately) : In your email you mentioned a quiz for after reading the Start Here Module and I was wondering how to find the quiz? 19:45:32 From tichure : it was an assignment for people who started early. 19:45:47 From tichure : Michela, there is no quiz for 213 19:45:54 From Micaela : Okay thank you! 19:46:02 From tichure : like i said, not everybody gets the same stuff. 19:46:14 From Jonathan : I believe I started early. 19:46:25 From tichure : It all evens out in the end. 19:46:25 From Micaela : Thank you! I understand now 19:47:26 From tichure : I'll look into it Jonathan. 19:47:34 From Jonathan : thank you 19:48:38 From tichure : Anything else To get you started? 19:48:49 From Micaela : So as of right now, the only homework for 213 is to find my topic and the annotated work cited? Is there a document that clarifies what an annotated worked cited page is? 19:48:51 From tichure : I’ll be here till 9 o’clock 19:49:15 From tichure : yes. It should be in the instructions, but if it’s not, it will be shortly. 19:49:31 From Micaela : Okay thank you 19:50:21 From gaby : Thank you for your feedback professor. I will be getting started on my response for “To the Ladies” Any advise for a student who hasn’t had an English class in quite a while? Your reference material has been extremely helpful 19:53:45 From tichure : Check your email Jonathan 19:54:05 From tichure : I don’t know why you didn’t get it the first time. It was sent to everyone I have in my list at the time 19:54:22 From tichure : go through the process carefully Gaby. 19:54:42 From Jonathan : Got the email. Thank you. 19:54:50 From tichure : Find the information that supports the argument that you’re making, whether it is to explain the realities for married women at the time (gender criticism) or explains why the author wrote it (Marxist criticism.) 19:55:22 From tichure : Use the secondary source material, your research, to explain the lines of the poem. Do not wander off into some of the topics that are associated with, but not discussed in the poem. 19:55:28 From tichure : Remember, you’re analyzing the poem, not a social issue 19:56:13 From gaby : I don’t believe gender criticism was an option for this assignment correct? I was leaning towards Marxist or Historical 19:56:55 From tichure : I’ll tell you now that there is only a little bit of information on Lady Mary Chudleigh, but that information does explain why she would 1). Write something like this and 2) sees white colt “to the ladies” because she’s talking about specific segment of the population. For this particular poem, the word “lady” is a title, not simply a description of the well mannered female. 19:57:08 From tichure : Well that’s my Fault. 19:57:17 From tichure : Historical criticism is a critical perspective that examines the work and explains references within it. 19:57:35 From tichure : Gender criticism is simply a narrow historical criticism that focuses on gender issues. If the work that you’re analyzing is all about gender, your historical criticism is technically a gender criticism. 19:57:58 From tichure : So if you did a historical criticism, and everything you talk about is gender, I would simply tell you to change the label to gender 19:58:47 From tichure : if you’re covering stuff that includes both gender and other non-gender issues, the historical criticism is a broad enough umbrella to apply to both. 19:59:18 From tichure : In a rare case where the work is complex enough, it is possible to do a gender criticism, which is focusing only on the gender issues, and a separate historical criticism which might focus on other contextual issues of the time, but for most of what you’re doing, especially for responses, the work you’re analyzing is either a gender focused work or it’s not. 19:59:26 From gaby : Ah, I understand. That is what I started with, I will go ahead and make the change. Your reminder that I am analyzing the poem not the social issue is very helpful 20:00:19 From tichure : Well one of the problems is that people choose material to talk about because they want to analyze the issue, especially if they take a course that has covered that issue, such as sociology or marriage and family or psychology or something like that. I end up with history papers and psychology papers instead of literary analysis. Understanding these topics is important to understanding the way the critical perspective works, but ultimately, you must bring everything back to the poem or the play or the story. If what you’re talking about is not in the work that you’ve chosen to analyze, it is off-topic. 20:01:29 From Jonathan : Are there any sources you would recommend to read as good examples of critical perspective 20:02:46 From tichure : Jonathan, for sure. To begin with, most of what you find in Gale is going to be an application of some kind of critical perspective, whether they’re talking about what the author was intending to write about (Marxist criticism) they are translating it from a specific response base viewpoint (feminist, a specific religion or culture etc.), or they are giving you the historical backdrop (historical/gender criticism). 20:02:50 From gaby : I will keep that in mind 20:03:24 From Jonathan : Thank you. 20:03:50 From tichure : If you read literary analysis of the cask of amontillado, much of what you are coming across is explanations of the historical references mentioned in the story, such as what catacomb is, with the various wines are, what the clothing use that is described, and these types of historical analyses really are designed to get you to understand the story in a way that the reader of the time would’ve automatically understood because they lived in that world. 20:04:35 From tichure : Likewise, when you’re reading something about the battles that Edgar Allan Poe had with other literary critics, he began to realize that he’s trying to write a story that will both sell in short form to the general audience (he needed to make money in order to survive, unlike many of his upper-class critic friends) but also he’s tried to impress these critics. This is a guy who was living in the world where his contemporaries are Herman Melville and Nathaniel Hawthorne, among others. 20:05:24 From tichure : That information helps you with your Marxist analysis would you explain what Poe was trying to do with his story, as well as what he was trying to say about the upper class, which he had access to because of his upbringing and his education, but he was never welcomed into. So you end up with some of the class conflict stuff is also part of Marxist criticism. 20:05:32 From tichure : As you read these analyses, you’ll begin to get the feel for it. 20:06:28 From Jonathan : I am looking forward to this. Thank you for the help 20:06:59 From tichure : The yellow wallpaper was a work that was published as a “ghost story” (otherwise it would not have been published) is and it was forgotten by the almost entirely male publishing world. In the 1960s, women began going to college in great numbers not defined a guy with a degree, but to get one for themselves. That’s where only second wave feminism but also feminist theory as a school thought came into the for, and they resurrected all of these forgotten works written by women which include Gilman and Glaspell and Kate Chopin etc. that means the great majority of literary analysis of the old wallpaper, especially written between the 1960s and the 1980s, is feminist criticism. 20:07:15 From tichure : That’s where not only second wave feminism but also feminist theory is a school of thought came into the fore 20:07:47 From Dan’s iPhone : hello 20:08:11 From tichure : so do some reading Jonathan, I think you’ll get a feel for the theory. As you read, you may want to ask me questions about what an article said and we can discuss what the theory is, but many times the search engine that you’re using in Gale or Esco will have a list of keywords on the left-hand side such as feminist, critical theory, etc. that will clue you into as to the content and tone of the work. 20:08:23 From tichure : Hey there Dan. We’re just checking in and going over the basics to get you started. 20:08:44 From tichure : I’m here to answer any questions you may have or to even discuss a topic you may have for your research paper. 103 or 213? 20:09:08 From Jonathan : Than you very much 20:09:20 From tichure : You’re welcome Jonathan 20:11:45 From tichure : in short, you are picking a work and seeing it will be researchable through making the annotated work cited page 20:11:57 From tichure : Dan, 103 or 213? 20:12:03 From Dan’s iPhone : 213 20:12:16 From tichure : Okay. 20:12:39 From tichure : http://www.englit.org/eiland_shared/resource/horrorlit.htm 20:12:50 From tichure : This is a list linked from the calendar on Englit.org 20:13:13 From tichure : if you choose something from this list, I’ve seen it and were good to go. However, you must make sure you can find enough valid, college-level secondary source material to write the paper 20:13:14 From Dan’s iPhone : thanks professor also where is the response folder? 20:13:28 From tichure : if you want to do something that is not on that list, you have to talk to me and show me that you can find material to do it. 20:13:49 From tichure : There are no responses for 213. 20:14:20 From Dan’s iPhone : oh okay got it 20:14:23 From tichure : Now if you really insist, I can ADD more work to do for the class… 20:15:04 From Dan’s iPhone : less work please, I insist 20:15:05 From tichure : I do try to keep everybody happy. at least until grades start coming out. B^P 20:15:22 From tichure : Your wish is my command Dan. No test for you 20:15:52 From Dan’s iPhone : awesome 20:15:58 From tichure : Dan, did you have a work in mind to write your research paper on? Many people who join a gennre-based class like horror literature Already have material that they like. 20:16:32 From tichure : and author, director, graphic artist? 20:16:34 From Jonathan : In that case can we all have A’s please at the end ?? 20:16:35 From tichure : Or specific work 20:16:46 From tichure : well Jonathan, I don’t want to lower your self-esteem by making it too easy. 20:17:35 From tichure : The idea, Dan, is for you to pick a sample work that you think you might be interested in, and develop your annotated work cited. If you can find material, you’re good to go. If you can’t, that’s probably a clue that you might want to choose something that has more accessible material. 20:17:54 From tichure : Since only the first day, that’s what we’re starting with. 20:18:50 From Jonathan : I am excited about this 103 class. I look forward to having better understanding of the work. As well as being able, hopefully, to apply this thinking in every day life 20:19:38 From Dan’s iPhone: I’d like to watch hellraiser is there a place to gets scripts for free? also, why Stephen king but not dean koontz? 20:19:57 From gaby : I am excited as well! I was bit intimidated at first, but I feel a lot more at ease now. 20:20:28 From gaby : Thank you professor! 20:21:39 From tichure:, i did my MA on King so thats all open 20:21:47 From tichure t: I’ve read some Koontz 20:23:56 From tichure : im baaack 20:24:12 From tichure : By the way folks, does the Chat get interrupted for you? 20:24:17 From gaby : Yes 20:24:22 From Jonathan : yes 20:24:29 From tichure : ok 20:26:08 From Jonathan : Than you for all the information it’s been very helpful. 20:26:15 From tichure : you’re welcome Jonathan. Have a good week 20:26:30 From tichure : any questions, send me an email. I answer it every day. If you do not get a response from me within 36 hours, I did not get your email. 20:27:00 From Jonathan : good night all. thanks again 20:27:01 From tichure : Also, because I sometimes respond to a person’s “stupid question” to everyone in order to not have to answer the same question 45 times, make sure that your junk filter does not automatically kick out something that has, say over 25 respondents 20:27:01 From gaby : As I mentioned, I was feeling a bit intimidated but your feedback has been very helpful. I look forward to learning a lot this semester. Thank you! 20:27:08 From tichure : Or add me to your list. 20:27:14 From tichure : My pleasure Gaby 20:27:33 From gaby : Good night! 20:27:42 From tichure : There’s some complicated stuff here, but is organized in such a way to be as logical as possible. Most students are not English majors. However, I have a science Degree as well as an English degree. 20:27:53 From tichure : the material is set up in a logical way in order for you to go through the process to get to the end successfully. 20:28:00 From tichure : Take care Gaby 20:28:33 From Jonathan : Good night again. 20:28:53 From gaby : Yes! The way you have your material set up has been EXTREMELY helpful. I’ve had a question and found the answer right away just going through the material 20:30:38 From Jonathan : oops I forgot to ask. Is there another way to access chat archives other than. your website? 20:31:34 From tichure : Not really Jonathan. The website is always up and if you can get access to the Internet, you can see it. 20:32:22 From Jonathan : Ok. Thank you again. Hope you have a good night 20:32:31 From tichure : You too 20:32:31 From gaby : I’ll be sure to reach out to you if I have more questions. Thanks again! Good night. 20:32:43 From tichure : take care Gaby 20:56:23 From tichure : POOF