- You joined the Main Room. ( 7:03 PM ) - - Your chat permission has been enabled. ( 7:03 PM ) - tichure 6:58 PM 103\ - Ashleyp 1 joined the Main Room. ( 7:20 PM ) - tichure 7:14 PM Hey Ashley, how's it going Ashleyp 1 7:14 PM I've been trying to get in since last week! 7:15 PM tichure 7:15 PM good How can I help you 7:15 PM - Ari joined the Main Room. ( 7:23 PM ) - tichure 7:16 PM hey there Ari, how's it going Ari 7:16 PM It’s going thank you, I have a question The only item due next week is the annotated works cited correct? 7:17 PM Of 10 sources? 7:17 PM tichure 7:17 PM 10 sources. One of them of course is the primary source itself. 7:17 PM That means if it's a song, I need the ORIGINAL publication information which includes the office name, the title of the song, the album it was released on, the record company in the year it was released. 7:18 PM If it's a movie, I need the original movie information which would be 7:18 PM Ashleyp 1 7:18 PM I chose The Death of a Salesman for my research paper. My question is in relation to the critical perspectives that I have chosen so far. Wood deconstructive be the same as using a Marxist criticism? tichure 7:18 PM the title of the movie, followed by the directors name, followed by the top three factors, followed by the production company, followed by the year was released. Ashleyp 1 7:20 PM That helps for me as far as the movie is concerned. Would* 7:20 PM tichure 7:20 PM Hey Ashley. Deconstruction is nothing like Marxist criticism. Deconstruction is not a discussion of simply "deconstructing" the story or song or play or whatever. Deconstruction is a critical theory based on a form of philosophy created by a fellow named Jacques Derrida. It is a discussion of analysis in which you take common words that have multiple meanings (like the word net which can refer to a device for catching fish, a separation between players on the tennis court, a reference to the profits from an economic situation, or a trap, among other things) and you re-translate the work using alternative but valid definitions of the words that are already in the work. The reason that deconstruction is in the list for the class very deep into the semester is because it is fairly complex and would require that you choose something that's relatively SHORT and has many commonly used words that have multiple meanings. Specifically, you may not use deconstruction for the first draft of the paper. Because it is one of the more complex critical perspectives, I want to save that, if you're going to do it, for the final draft due at the end the semester. 7:21 PM Ashley, have you created your annotated work cited? This is concerning death of a salesman 7:22 PM Ari, what have you chosen for your primary source? 7:23 PM Ashleyp 1 7:26 PM I have done some of them. Based on what you said previously about that relating to movies, I'll need to revamp some tichure 7:27 PM Well are you doing the movie Death of a salesman or are you doing the written play? keep in mind that I posted the video with Dustin Hoffman so that you would understand the context of the text better. Technically, I intend for you to analyze the play itself Ari 7:27 PM I’m doing mine on Dear Mama, so basically I’ll be describing how Shakur’s work reflects his social class’s struggles and how it brought about social change? tichure 7:27 PM in fact, the movie theoretically could be a secondary source if it has any particular critical perspective use. The movie is a translation, the directors translation, of the original source material. Well what critical perspective is that Ari? 7:28 PM Ashleyp 1 7:28 PM I thought to do the movie from the original Ari 7:28 PM Marxist ? 7:28 PM tichure 7:28 PM Ashley, if you end up doing the analysis of the movie itself, your primary source is going to be the director’s work, not the work by Miller. A Marxist criticism of the movie would be, partly, an explanation as to the director's choices in terms of actors and the way that the play is presented as a movie but you cannot discuss the RESPONSES to a song with Marxist criticism Ari. 7:29 PM Ashleyp 1 7:29 PM I didn't notice that you posted the Dustin Hoffman version. However, I did see it on YouTube I just assumed I should do the original because you spoke on that beforehand tichure 7:29 PM Marxist criticism only discusses the author's intention and, if for his autobiographical like this one, the life experiences that are depicted in the work, as well as his feelings about those life experiences. Well actually, if you look at the calendar, you have two choices for death of a salesman in terms of source material. I give you the actual text and then I give you a movie, and the movie is the Dustin Hoffman version. 7:29 PM Ari 7:29 PM Okay so then only the first part basically the background behind the song tichure 7:30 PM You should indeed do the original. That is correct Ari. 7:30 PM Ari 7:30 PM Sweet ! tichure 7:30 PM For your second response, in terms of how people have responded to the song, that is a cultural criticism. Ashleyp 1 7:30 PM I noticed each film talks about the same topics in each scene except at different times or it brings you into a scene without fully understanding how they got there that's why I watch the first one or the black and white tichure 7:30 PM Because you need two critical perspectives for the first draft, that is a verifiable way to go, but you have to narrow down the cultural response. You may NOT do a cultural response from the African-American community is that community is going to agree with the author. It's repetitious. tichure 7:32 PM Ashley, what I really want to know is what value or focus the movie or movies that you've seen that are translations of the Miller work are going to be utilized in your analysis. Ari, you can use a cultural response for this first draft ONLY if it is in opposition to the author’s point 7:33 PM for example, a conservative religion or culture, as well as people in particular fields, such as law enforcement, conservative politics or child protective services, would have a disagreement with the author over whether or not the person described is a woman who should be praised for her mothering tactics 7:33 PM Ari 7:33 PM So for the first draft I can do cultural criticism and Marxist criticism?? tichure 7:34 PM one could even find an argument from conservative African-Americans who have a problem with hip-hop music and songs like this one in particular because they further negative stereotypes of African-Americans that they themselves do not want to be identified with. Yes you may 7:34 PM which brings me back to Ashley. What are the two critical perspectives that you were thinking of applying and in what ways with the movie or movies that you found help at all? If they have no functional practical application in terms of translation, they may be helpful in understanding what the plot of the play is, but they will not be in the references because you will not actually be quoting from them. They become more informational for you rather than resource material for analysis. 7:35 PM Ashleyp 1 7:38 PM I'm focusing on the idea of praise that Willy shows Biff because he balances life and death in his own existence through Biff's success. tichure 7:38 PM And which critical perspective is that Ashley? Ashleyp 1 7:39 PM Also, Willy's lack of ambition on his own accord tichure 7:39 PM again, what critical perspective are you applying? So far what you're mostly doing is simply explaining what is evident in the play. Ashleyp 1 7:39 PM I wanted to use Marxist toward the first one tichure 7:40 PM Marxist criticism simply explains the authors method, message and intended audience. As part of that, you would then explain the portrayal of Willy Loman as part of the authors editorial concerning the treatment of individuals in an American capitalist society. Ashleyp 1 7:40 PM After watching it I thought mythological might be an appropriate critical perspective as well? tichure 7:40 PM You can also apply Marxist criticism in the context of class struggle. Ashleyp 1 7:41 PM That helps a lot tichure 7:41 PM Again, mythological is quite complex and would require a great deal of development. You would have to find archetypes for charactes, settings and plots, and that is also one of the critical perspectives that is later in the semester. I suppose you could get started on it and apply it in the first draft, but figured that the paragraph for mythological criticism is going to be about 3 to 4 pages alone. What is your understanding as to Miller's attitude about American capitalism and its effect on small businessman or people in business? 7:42 PM Ashleyp 1 7:42 PM Hold a moment still reading the other question lol tichure 7:42 PM of course Ashleyp 1 7:43 PM Miller's is showing that salesman in a capitalist economy are a dime a dozen and as the economy grows the importance of them becomes lackluster. This seems to ultimately become a struggle for them to have to sell themselves at some point tichure 7:43 PM it's more than that What was Miller's own experience with capitalism? 7:43 PM I'll tell you right now that he did not write this in order to denigrate salesman 7:43 PM in other words, while Willy Loman has issues, he is actually the victim in this play, from Miller's perspective Ari 7:44 PM This is off topic but I wasn’t able to submit the 3 P assignment on the choice of poem last night, so I submitted it today will it still be accepted and how much points will be taken off if so? tichure 7:45 PM Ari, you have multiple opportunities to write RESPONSES for a total of five maximum by the end of the semester. that's why late responses are not accepted. If you still want to submit this one, you would submitted further in the semester when I give you more general opportunity such as ANY work from the calendar. 7:45 PM You are not required to write a response for everything that you read for the course. 7:46 PM Ari 7:47 PM Oh... it allowed me to submit late still? ?? tichure 7:47 PM Of course Ari 7:47 PM .... tichure 7:47 PM that's because the people who did submit on time, I may have them submit a revision but the initial submission cannot be late for RESPONSES. For other works that you have one shot at, like an annotated Works cited, the first draft, I accept late work and then there is a penalty assessed. 7:48 PM Ari 7:48 PM Oh okay okay thanks for clarifying ! tichure 7:48 PM No problem. Like I said, save that response for a later submission. It won't go to waste like I said 7:48 PM Ari 7:48 PM Well that’s a little too late lol bc I wrote it in the text box tichure 7:49 PM oing to happen is you will get a response from me telling you that it's late. You will then take the same short essay and submitted later in the ANY folder instead no harm no file 7:49 PM Ari 7:49 PM I didn’t save it though... I just wrote it in the text box ?? tichure 7:49 PM no harm, no foul then copy and paste your homework from canvas 7:49 PM go back to where you posted it and copy it 7:50 PM onto a word document 7:50 PM the joys of technology 7:50 PM Ari 7:50 PM Lol I’ll go check back in on that thanks tichure 7:50 PM in fact, you can go ahead and posted in the ANY response folder now if you can have access to it, which I think you should. Ashleyp 1 7:52 PM Well Miller definitely didn't come from money. He worked as a shipping laborer It seemed like he was making him the victim because of the way that he remembered his relationships with other people but they didn't do the same for him 7:52 PM Also, every time Willie had to come to terms with a serious situation he kept reverting back into a good memory 7:53 PM By the way, since you guys are talking about the responses. I put my essay in the text box, but it took off a lot of the stuff I did as far as double spacing and indent so I did the best I could to fix it before sending. 7:54 PM Ari 7:55 PM I’ll do that as soon as I get access to my laptop Ashleyp 1 7:55 PM Yesterday tichure 7:56 PM Let's talk about the responses and canvas canvas has a tendency to screw up formatting 7:56 PM so I will not be concerned about whether or not your work cited page is formatted with hanging indentation 7:56 PM I will also not be concerned about whether or not the first line of each paragraph is indented 7:56 PM Ashleyp 1 7:56 PM Yeah I was hoping to just inserted as a file but it doesn't give that option only the text box tichure 7:56 PM however, the introduction should be clearly separated from the body paragraph and the body paragraph should be clearly separated from the conclusion and the conclusion should be clearly separated from the works cited list. I will ferret out the rest of it. 7:57 PM Ashley, in response to your discussion about Miller, what specific experience did his family have when he was a younger person that might make him question whether or not the capitalist system works for middle-class working people instead of simply for the rich? 7:57 PM Ashleyp 1 7:57 PM Okay. tichure 7:58 PM moreover, what factors in American society have driven Willy Loman to the state where he is? In other words, what belief in terms of what makes a successful person has driven Willy Loman to his behaviors? - Ari joined the Main Room. ( 8:07 PM ) - tichure 8:00 PM Welcome back Ari Ashley, what does Willy Loman tell his sons is the most important thing in order for man to be successful? 8:01 PM Ashleyp 1 8:02 PM To be liked by others 8:02 PM tichure 8:03 PM Very good Ashley. Is that true? Is that good advice? 8:03 PM Ashleyp 1 8:04 PM Of course not tichure 8:04 PM Especially when his sons are younger, what does he DISMISS as important that turns out to be very important in terms of determining who is successful or not successful later in life? Ari, can I help you with anything else? 8:04 PM Ashleyp 1 8:04 PM Sadly, he abided by it though - Ari left the Main Room. ( 8:12 PM ) - - Ari joined the Main Room. ( 8:12 PM ) - tichure 8:05 PM he did. did Biff? Ashleyp 1 8:06 PM No. He felt a sense of arrogance because of the dad's praise. I didn't care. 8:07 PM tichure 8:08 PM As a child. How did that work out for him? did he end up going to college? Ashleyp 1 8:08 PM Willy thought that having talent didn't matter Or skill 8:08 PM tichure 8:08 PM well he certainly thought football talent was important, Didn't he? Ashleyp 1 8:08 PM Bad for Biff. He worked on a farm and came home back and forth tichure 8:09 PM There's something else that he did not think was important that you yourself obviously think is important. What was Bernards focus? 8:09 PM What was Bernard trying to help Biff with? 8:09 PM - Ari left the Main Room. ( 8:16 PM ) - tichure 8:10 PM And who was more successful in adulthood? Bernard or Biff Ashleyp 1 8:10 PM His education tichure 8:10 PM of course Ashleyp 1 8:10 PM Creating opportunity tichure 8:10 PM of course what did Biff resort to in order to try to be successful in his education? 8:11 PM Obviously, studying was not going to be his choice 8:11 PM Ashleyp 1 8:12 PM Athletics? He also tried to get his dad to talk to the teacher 8:12 PM tichure 8:12 PM very good how did that work out? 8:12 PM Ashleyp 1 8:13 PM Very bad. It completely changed his focus. tichure 8:13 PM Why Ashleyp 1 8:13 PM He admired him tichure 8:14 PM well this is where you actually tell me about what happened in the story that altered his focus 8:14 PM that put him off track for his education 8:14 PM and perhaps 8:14 PM for following his father's advice 8:14 PM Ashleyp 1 8:14 PM The mistress tichure 8:14 PM what did he discover when he went to his father for help? That is correct 8:14 PM what is the nature of the relationship between the WOMAN and Willy Loman? 8:14 PM What is the exchange between them? 8:14 PM What does she get and what does he get? 8:14 PM Ashleyp 1 8:15 PM He gets business because she is a buyer I believe and he also gets affection he feels he's not getting at home tichure 8:15 PM And what does she get Ashleyp 1 8:15 PM She gets a good time tichure 8:16 PM she's actually the secretary to the buyer. She's going to get him into the buyer. Actually she gets something tangible 8:16 PM Ashleyp 1 8:16 PM Oh and stockings lol tichure 8:16 PM because I'm not sure Willy Loman is that dynamic hahahah 8:16 PM yes 8:16 PM what year is this? 8:16 PM Ashleyp 1 8:16 PM He's not lol 1949 8:16 PM tichure 8:16 PM Is this work was written and published around 1948, this is happening in around 1946 47. That's when the work was written 8:16 PM Ashleyp 1 8:16 PM Oh ok tichure 8:16 PM this means that the present day staff stuff 8:16 PM with the adult children 8:16 PM and the father tried to kill himself is 1946 4748 8:17 PM but it means that the senior in high school Beth 8:17 PM Biff 8:17 PM who is 32 or 33 in 1948 8:17 PM is 17 in what year? 8:17 PM Ashleyp 1 8:18 PM 1918? Oops..I'm confused by the way you wrote the question 8:19 PM - Ari joined the Main Room. ( 8:26 PM ) - Ashleyp 1 8:19 PM Hold on tichure 8:20 PM In 1948 Biff is about 32 so later would he have been 17 or 18? 8:20 PM So what year would he have been 17 or 18? 8:20 PM I know… Who thought we had to do math in an English class? 8:20 PM Ashleyp 1 8:22 PM I hate math lol. So, wouldn't we be counting back 30 years from 1948? - Ari left the Main Room. ( 8:30 PM ) - tichure 8:23 PM Now you're counting back 32-18 which is about 14 19 48-14 8:23 PM 19 34 8:23 PM what's happening in 1934 in the United States? 8:23 PM What's happening during the entire 30s 8:23 PM in fact starting in 1929 8:23 PM in the United States 8:23 PM Ashleyp 1 8:24 PM Ok. I was going to say 1932 This is in war time WW1 8:24 PM tichure 8:24 PM no World War I was over by the 1920s. The roaring 20s 8:25 PM World War II will not start for the United States until 1941 8:25 PM something very big 8:25 PM is happening in the 1930s 8:25 PM because it has to do 8:25 PM with stockings 8:25 PM and business 8:25 PM and how important a basic thing like education or job 8:25 PM or stockings 8:25 PM silk stockings 8:25 PM would be 8:25 PM I know. Who knew this would be a history class? 8:26 PM Ashleyp 1 8:26 PM Let me search it tichure 8:27 PM Good approach. Ashleyp 1 8:32 PM Looks like stockings had a huge impact at this time when it comes to the design. Upgrading to silk stockings 8:32 PM tichure 8:33 PM why what economic situation is happening during the 1930s? 8:33 PM Something GREAT which was actually HORRIBLE. The word GREAT in this case means BIG 8:33 PM you should not be looking up stockings. 8:34 PM You should be looking up 8:34 PM the 1930s 8:34 PM something that affected not only United States, but the entire world because it affected the United States 8:34 PM Ashleyp 1 8:35 PM The infinite use of nylon? Still looking.. 8:35 PM tichure 8:36 PM Great Depression 8:36 PM Ashleyp 1 8:38 PM Of course tichure 8:38 PM what happened to jobs during the Great Depression? Ashleyp 1 8:38 PM Depleted tichure 8:38 PM Relative to income, how expensive would silk stockings be? Ashleyp 1 8:40 PM Pretty expensive at that time. tichure 8:40 PM How important was it to keep the job you already had? Ashleyp 1 8:41 PM Crucial tichure 8:41 PM Is Willy Loman trying to increase sales by working harder or is he trying to cheat the system through bribery? Ashleyp 1 8:42 PM When you say bribery, do you mean the conversation he had with the boss's son? tichure 8:42 PM Part of Miller's argument is that people like Willy Loman exist which make the system work badly, but an essential element of that argument is that Willy Loman feels that he is playing the game in the way that he supposed to. Miller's cynicism about the American capitalist system is based on what happened to his family at the beginning of the Great Depression. No I mean that he is basically paying this woman to put him at that of the line to get to the buyer in front of other salespersons 8:42 PM he is bribing her with stockings 8:43 PM in order to bring the point home, the author literally put her "in bed" with Willy Loman, a term that we use when people are colluding against others. 8:43 PM Find information about Arthur Miller and his politics, which will be reflected in thematic overviews in which he examines the various aspects of the American experience, especially when it comes to business and politics. 8:44 PM This will help you to formulate a solid argument that discusses Marxist criticism in both a class struggle aspect, as well as focusing on his message and methodology in works like death of a salesman. 8:44 PM It will help you to create an understanding of the story that is also linked to an understanding of his reason for writing it. 8:45 PM Then we can talk about it again next week 8:45 PM also, reread the play because you want to see whether or not one of his sons is actually following in his footsteps but he is a cheater in his own right in a different way 8:45 PM in fact, 8:46 PM Ashleyp 1 8:46 PM Ok. This helps in breaking down Arthur's symbolism tichure 8:46 PM both sons demonstrate a certain lack of morality of some kind yes 8:46 PM Ashleyp 1 8:46 PM Well I know for sure that Biff is a thief tichure 8:47 PM like I said, Willy Loman is both a perpetrator and also a victim. One son followed his father and the other one rejected what his father tried to teach. That is correct Ashley 8:47 PM Ashleyp 1 8:47 PM As far as happy as concerned, it didn't really focus on his life too much tichure 8:47 PM the football and the pen you should 8:47 PM Ashleyp 1 8:47 PM When he was going to pick up those two girls tichure 8:47 PM because his father ignores him, but happy is trying to point out that he is doing exactly what his father wants. He is doing well at work but his explanation to his brother about who he dates specifically 8:47 PM from work 8:47 PM tells us something about his general approach to both business and his personal life 8:47 PM and also explains why he is unhappy 8:47 PM while his older brother is actually quite content working on a ranch out West 8:48 PM check it out and we can talk next week. 8:48 PM Ashleyp 1 8:48 PM Ok! Biff kind of seems unfulfilled though because of how he expresses himself too happy when he is on the farm or the ranch 8:48 PM tichure 8:50 PM Actually, the argument/conversation between the two brothers is the older brother trying to convince his younger brother to come out with him to the West because they can find themselves and not be distracted by the hustle and bustle of people and the big city and the other junk that his father has been embroiled in especially when the younger brother points out that he is living and unfulfilled life, despite the fact it is quite successful 8:50 PM which of course again is Miller editorializing that financial success and appearance of success does not necessarily make a person happy 8:50 PM Biff is making less than the standard wage at the time but actually likes his job better than either his father or his brother. 8:51 PM Ashleyp 1 8:52 PM Well happy does mention his boss a lot and saying that he is liked because of his money and of confidence tichure 8:52 PM Yes But I want you to read the play again because you need to clue in on who he is dating 8:52 PM which women 8:52 PM and how he feels about it 8:52 PM and of course the risk that he's taking in doing so 8:52 PM any other questions for now? 8:52 PM Ashleyp 1 8:53 PM No I actually got a lot of good info for the moment. Thank you! tichure 8:54 PM We will talk next week. Have a great weekend. 8:54 PM Ashleyp 1 8:54 PM Thanks. You too! tichure 8:54 PM righty-O!! poof 8:54 PM - Ashleyp 1 left the Main Room. ( 9:01 PM ) -