everyday use Moderator: 101 Moderator: still loading Moderator: Working on rewrites right now... I will let you know when everything has been returned Jennifer: Ok Moderator: any general questions before we get started Elizabeth: ok Moderator: but I have received a great number of them so I just wanted to let people know that I'm working on them Moderator: also, a reminder that anything that says PAPER gets sent to me at my e-mail address. Flavio: ok Moderator: RESPONSES go on blackboard as do DISCUSSION GROUP postings Jennifer: When are the responses due? Moderator: generally Jennifer, responses are due after we've discussed the work Jennifer: Ok Moderator: any other questions Moderator: issues Jennifer: I'm good Elizabeth: no Flavio: no Moderator: what was the question I asked Flavio: symbolism or conflict Jennifer: About symbolism and/ or conflict in "Everyday Use" Moderator: let's start with the basics Moderator: who wants to summarize the plot for me Elizabeth: Mama had two daughters. Maggie and Dee. Dee changed her name to identify herself with her African roots.She got an education. On the contrary Maggie got burned when their house was on fire. Jennifer: It is about a mother and daughter, Maggie, who are connected with their hetiage through inheirtant items like a quilt but the other daughter, Dee, believes she knows more about their background because she was educationed but in reality she jsut knows the superficial facts Moderator: Elizabeth, everything you're telling me is true but that's not the plot... this is all background information that we learn in the course of the plot Moderator: Jennifer that's a lot closer Elizabeth: im sorry Moderator: but you're still not telling you the plot... both of you are in theme mentality Moderator: the plot is much simpler than what either of you said Flavio: The plot is the quilt Moderator: no flavio Moderator: her member, that the plot is simply what happened Louise: sorry. Moderator: remember that the plot is simply what happened Moderator: no need to be sorry... that's why we discussed this Louise: im late had to work late Elizabeth: ok Moderator: it is okay Louise Jennifer: Dee comes home and tries to take the item for their montary value and Mama and Maggie gives it to her because they can remember their past Moderator: the plot simply is somebody does something and somebody else does something in response Moderator: that's a lot more to the point Jennifer Moderator: except your ending is off a bit Moderator: who ends up with the quilts Flavio: maggie Moderator: yes Elizabeth: Mama and magie Louise: maggie Flavio: dee drives away Moderator: so thereforel ultimately mama says... Louise: no Moderator: exactly Elizabeth: "Take one or two of the others (Walker 468) Moderator: the on the surface of it, this looks like a simple family spat with a rather simplistic resolution. However, by looking at the conflicts more closely and evaluating symbolism, we can find some deeper meanings. Let's start with the easy stuff Moderator: conflicts Moderator: I want all of you to tell me one of the conflicts that you discussed on your paper by labeling the conflict in showing both sides of the conflict in one entry so that we can see what you're saying Moderator: that will get the ball rolling Louise: dee wants the quilt and mama says no Flavio: heritage = quilt Mama vs. dee (man vs. man) Louise: man v man Jennifer: I focused my paper on hte symbols but the conflict i used was Mama and Maggie had an external man vs msn conflict with Dee Elizabeth: The conflict man versus herself that Dee has.She did not want to have her original name Dee, so she changed it to Wangero Leewanika Kemanjo. Moderator: Louise, like I said, put it all in one entry Moderator: flavio, just conflict for now please Louise: oh ok Moderator: Jennifer, what is it Moderator: Elizabeth, I saw that a lot Flavio: ok Moderator: in order for you to show me internal conflict, the conflict has to occur during the course of the story Moderator: does she change her name during the course of the story Flavio: no Elizabeth: no she didnt Louise: no Jennifer: nope Louise: right at the intro of her Moderator: furthermore, what aspect of herself is she battling with the change her name Moderator: or is she actually in conflict with something outside of her Louise: environment? Elizabeth: Dee has a conflict with her relatives from the past Jennifer: outside. man vs society because society taught the superficial facts of her heritage instead the in depth knowledge Maggie and Mama have Moderator: Louise, who gave her the name Moderator: in fact what h=is mama's response when dee tells her that she's changed her name Louise: dee is dead Moderator: what is mama's response Jennifer: Mama ask "What happened to 'Dee'?" (Walker, 464) Jennifer: And Dee responsed with "'She's dead'" (Walker, 464) Elizabeth: "You know as well as me you was named adter your ant Dicie"(walker 464) Moderator: that's what I'm looking for Jennifer and Elizabeth Moderator: who is dee rejecting by changing her name Flavio: heritage Elizabeth: her aunt Louise: her aunt Jennifer: "' I coudn't bear it any longer, being named after the people who oppress me.'" (Walker, 464) Moderator: who is de]e in conflict with Moderator: possibly flavio, so what is the conflict Moderator: Elizabeth And Louise, who named her Moderator: or Moderator: what was the intent when the family gave her the name dee Moderator: and therefore who is she rejecting Elizabeth: her mom;s sister Louise: mom Elizabeth: Dee is rejecting her grandma? Flavio: big dee Moderator: yeah the problem is is that 'dee' is both her aunt's and her grandmother's name Moderator: how important is the name to the family Moderator: how important is the name to Mrs. Johnson Jennifer: Mama said she "could have carried it back beyond the civil war through the branches" (Walker, 464) meaning her name has been the family for way more then 4 generations Moderator: why is Mrs. Johnson so surprised by her oldest daughter's decision to become Wangero Moderator: yes Jennifer... Moderator: why does the family give a person that name Moderator: what is the family telling the person who gets the name Jennifer: its an honorary title Jennifer: The name symbolizes the person they hope for you to become Louise: it is a symbol of tradition Moderator: yes Moderator: therefore who does D. have a problem with... a conflict with Moderator: either an individual person Moderator: or group Moderator: the individual person would be... Elizabeth: her mother Moderator: yes Moderator: and the group? Louise: ancestors Louise: ? Moderator: Who is she rejecting by rejecting the name Moderator: very good Louise Moderator: there is a possibility and actually a likelihood that dee has an internal conflict, but in order to them straight back, one of two things has to happen... Moderator: either , like the story "what you pawn..." where the narrator Jackson tells us that the character in front of them is pondering something and that character indicates that they are struggling with two answers, like upon broker who knows the right thing to do would be to give back the regalia but also does not want to lose money, we get a very direct indication that there is an internal conflict Moderator: especially since this is also told in first person by somebody other than dee Moderator: the other option would be that the internal conflict is told to us via a first-person narrator about themselves Moderator: and I would ask... does Mrs. Johnson have an internal conflict that is discernible Moderator: there is a third option that we will get to shortly Louise: yes should she give the quilt to dee or maggie the right thing would be to give it to maggie but dee really wants it also Moderator: Louise, you have very clearly articulated one half of the problem Moderator: the problem is the right thing is to give it to Maggie Louise: stand up to dee? Moderator: the other half however is not that hdee really wants it... it has to do with what Mrs. Johnson has been able to do Moderator: that is exactly correct Moderator: she wants to stand up to D. but... give me the other half Louise: sweet Moderator: she wants to give the quilts to Maggie, but... give me the other half Moderator: both of these would be accurate descriptors of the internal conflict for Mrs. Johnson Louise: she doesn't know how and never has before Moderator: very good louise Moderator: man versus man conflicts besides wangero versus Mrs. Johnson Louise: maggie and dee Flavio: Mama and dee Moderator: Explain as you go please Louise: maggie always takes second place to dee and resents her for it Moderator: give me an example from the story please Moderator: flavio? Moderator: give me the conflict other than the ones we already discussed concerning the quilt Elizabeth: Mama and Asalamalakim Moderator: there are plenty of conflicts by the way in the story Moderator: haha Moderator: halimabarber? Louise: She thinks her sister has held life always in the palm of one hand, that "no" is a workd the world never learned her to say"(460) Elizabeth: yes Moderator: very good Louise Moderator: explained Elizabeth Elizabeth: Since he comes from a Muslim doctrine he did not eat pork "We sat down to eat and right away he said he didnt eat collards and pork was unclean" (Walker 465) Flavio: mama vs. maggie "Have you ever seen a lame animal, perhaps a dog run over by some careless person rich enough to own a car, sidle up to someone who is ignorernt enough to be kind to them? that is the way my maggie walks" (Wwalker 461) Flavio: Mama is always judging Maggie in the way she is Moderator: very good Elizabeth Moderator: flavio, what judgment is the mother making on Maggie Moderator: is this a conflict or is this merely an honest observation about her daughter Jennifer: i dont think there is any conflict w mama and maggie flavio Flavio: well, she wants her doughter to get marry so she can live peacefully Moderator: she is getting married Jennifer: They seem to have a close relationship Moderator: to John Thomas Louise: she is not judging she is sorry for her Moderator: I think that is supportable Jennifer Moderator: in fact, what does the mother recognize that perhaps too many parents do not recognize about their children Moderator: I think it is also supportable Louise Elizabeth: children can make their own decisions? Moderator: Elizabeth I think it's something more about the way that parents do something that might be a mistake even though it's done through love and good intentions Moderator: is the mother's assessment of her daughter accurate Louise: yes Jennifer: yes Flavio: yes Moderator: is the mother's assessment of her daughter a reflection of how others would see her Elizabeth: yes Jennifer: moms arealways right Louise: yes Elizabeth: yeap Moderator: sometimes Jennifer... but more importantly, what we have is a mother honestly assessing her daughter and especially the way that she would be perceived by the outside Moderator: is the mother also honest about herself in the same way Flavio: the way that maggie is will make it man vs. self? Louise: yes very Elizabeth: yes Jennifer: yup Flavio: yes Moderator: flavio, does Maggie have a problem with herself or does she have a problem with the outside world Moderator: or individuals in the outside world Flavio: outside world Louise: I am a large big boned woman with rough, manworking hands. Moderator: and remember, you must stick to or given in the story rather than projecting onto the character Moderator: flavio, name that conflict Flavio: environment Moderator: me too Louise... Flavio: man vs. environement or society Elizabeth: hahaha Moderator: very good flavio Jennifer: haha Louise: lol Moderator: because of the mothers honest portrayal about herself, do we get a sense that she likes herself? Think before you answer this Moderator: what does she tell us about herself Moderator: and is it good or bad Jennifer: She lacks confidence in herself Moderator: besides her big bones Moderator: and her hands Moderator: Jennifer, give us the context please Louise: she likes her skills and ability to work but she does not like how she is uneducated Moderator: where did we find this out and what is she saying at the time Moderator: Louise, does she understand why she is uneducated Moderator: and has she accepted it Louise: no Louise: in 1927 colored folks asked fewer questions than they do now" (462) Moderator: has she accepted it Moderator: is she fighting this Moderator: does she feel she needs to fight this Moderator: why does she explain that in 1927 colored folks ask fewer questions Moderator: in what context Louise: no she has accepted who she is and is fine with it Moderator: because we want to make sure were following her point rather than getting sidetracked with details Moderator: show me that Louise... Moderator: she's big boned... what does she say about her weight... good or bad Moderator: her big man working hands... good or bad Moderator: what does she look like... good or bad and to whom Jennifer: she is happy she can do a man's work: " I always better at a man job's: (Walker, 462 Moderator: what kind of man's work does she do Jennifer Moderator: is there an example? Elizabeth: she doesnt mind being overweight. She is happy the way she is. Moderator: Because Elizabeth Moderator: because? Flavio: "One winter I knocked a bull calf straight in the brain" Walker 461) Moderator: flavio.... Her hands... her weight... enable her to do what Jennifer: farmwork, take care of the animals: "I used to love to milk..." (walker, 462_ Moderator: very good Moderator: do her physical characteristics reflect popular culture Moderator: conversely, do her physical characteristics allow her to survive in her environment Louise: no Louise: yes Elizabeth: yes Louise: i mean Flavio: YES Jennifer: in her environment yes in society no Louise: right Moderator: hhhaha Flavio: "my hot keeps me hot in zero weather " Elizabeth: "My fat keeps me hot in zero weather (walker 461) Moderator: very good flavio and Elizabeth Flavio: fat* oops Moderator: how do we know that society does not like what she looks like Flavio: isn't it the opposite. she doesn not like society because she is isolated. she stays in her own place Moderator: flavio, where does it indicate she does not like society Moderator: because someone isolates himself does not necessarily mean that they do not like society... that isolation could merely Moderator: keep them from understanding or knowing a society even exists Moderator: why do they live where they live Louise: the old house burnt Flavio: fire burned down the house Moderator: how different is the new house from the old house Elizabeth: no windows, roof is tin Flavio: yup Moderator: flavio, how different is the new house from the old house Moderator: folks, does Mrs. Johnson like being a farmer... does she like her life? Jennifer: old houses have more memories Moderator: Does Maggie like this life Moderator: Jennifer that's not what I asked you Moderator: physically and literally Moderator: how different is the old house from the Newhouse Jennifer: oh ok sorry Moderator: she indicates Moderator: how different is the old house from the new house Moderator: how similar are they Flavio: no real windows and holes and the roof is thin. they both have 3 rooms Moderator: the roof is tin, not thin Flavio: pasture house too, Moderator: what is the difference between the new house and the old house... folks this is actually very important Moderator: what does Mrs. Johnson say Jennifer: "I have deliberately turned my on the house" (Walker, 464) Louise: Da Jennifer: (462) sorry Flavio: is it something to do with dee Louise: dee is not a part of the new house Louise: the memories are all new and happy Elizabeth: the new house brings bad memories to Dee.It reminds her of the fire. Moderator: ' Jennifer, is that Mrs. Johnson or is that wangero Elizabeth: "No doubt when Dee sees it she will want to tear it down (walker 462) Moderator: flavio, it has everything to do with the way that Mrs. Johnson describes the new house Jennifer: johnson Moderator: she essentially says Moderator: when describing the new house Moderator: that is EXACTLY Moderator: like the old house Moderator: except it has a tin roof Moderator: and considering the old one burned down, that might've been a response if she felt that embers came out of the chimney and started a wooden roof on fire Moderator: which gets me back to the question... Moderator: does Mrs. Johnson liked being a farmer Moderator: does Maggie like her life Louise: yeah butshe feels its been hard Elizabeth: yes Moderator: I didn't ask if it's been difficult... I asked if they like their lives Moderator: difficult or not Louise: yes Moderator: that is correct... they do enjoy their lifestyle Moderator: they're not hiding out on a pasture because they are afraid of society... Louise: because they know no other way Moderator: society has nothing to do it Moderator: exactly Louise Moderator: this is what they know... this is what they like Elizabeth: after their first was burned they could have moved to another please;howver, they stay in the same area Moderator: the narrator makes very clear that she enjoys her lifestyle Moderator: she is proud of what she can do on her own Moderator: she likes who she is Moderator: who doesn't like who she is Jennifer: Dee Louise: they don't know what they are missing Elizabeth: d Jennifer: Says she and maggie can be more w education Moderator: more than that, what does the mother tell us... a little story... that indicates how wangero feels about her mother and her mother looks like Moderator: as well as Mrs. Johnson's other personality traits Elizabeth: Wangero is not very proud of her mother. She feels ashamed of the way her mother looks. Louise: she used to read to us without pity: forcing words,lies,oter folks habits whole lives upon us two, sitting trapped and ignorant underneath her voice Moderator: show me Moderator: show me where we are told by Mrs. Johnson that wangero is ashamed of her mother Louise: (462) Moderator: Louise, what does that tell us about wangero Moderator: what does it tell us about her personality Moderator: what kind of person was D. even as a child Louise: she alwqays felt above them Louise: always Louise: she always wanted more than she had or her mother could get her Moderator: yes... and more importantly, was she very helpful with her education and wisdom Moderator: how do we know that wangero is ashamed of what her mother LOOKS like Louise: she pressed it on them even when they didn't want to hear it Moderator: yes Louise... but did she at least help them to understand and learn? Louise: she tried Moderator: Really Moderator: read the last segment of that sentence Moderator: the part that has the word SHOVED Moderator: the part you didn't share Moderator: it's actually a very long sentence Louise: right Louise: only when she felt like sharing her knowledge Jennifer: Dee thinks she knows more and tries toconcive Maggie to make more of herself: " You ought to try to make something of yourself, too, Mama" Moderator: and so then I ask you does she try to educate them REALLY Elizabeth: not really Moderator: Jennifer, but does wangero really do anything to help them Jennifer: No Moderator: in fact, according to the mother, what does she say about LEARNING with D.? Jennifer: instead she tries to act superiot Moderator: give me the entire sentence Moderator: yes, Jennifer Elizabeth: "She washed us in a river of make believe, burned us with a lot of knowledge we didnt necessarily need to know" (walker 462) Flavio: professor, i have to go to work. sorry. bye everyone. Elizabeth: bye Flavio Jennifer: Bye Flavio Have a good night Moderator: f take carelavio Flavio: thanks Moderator: keep going Elizabeth Moderator: washed Moderator: burn Moderator: keep going Moderator: give me the entire thing Elizabeth: Pressed us to her with the serious way she read, to shove us away at just the moment, like dimwits, we seemed about to undersntand" (walker 462) Moderator: pressed shove Moderator: washed burned Moderator: what do those four verbs have in common Moderator: what is the effect on the receiver Moderator: positive or negative Elizabeth: negative Jennifer: neg Elizabeth: humiliiation? Moderator: very much so Elizabeth Louise: neg Moderator: and Louise: shame Moderator: to shove us a way at the moment like dimwits we seemed about to understand Moderator: is she trying to get them to understand anything or is she merely showing them what they DON'T know Moderator: according to that phrase Jennifer: showing what they don't know Elizabeth: she feels that they are ignorants in some way Moderator: yes Moderator: the quote explains she has no intention of teaching them anything Moderator: as soon as she recognizes that they're going to learn something, Moderator: she leaves Moderator: she pushes them away Moderator: she SHOVES them Moderator: is wangero any different now that she's back Elizabeth: a little bit different Elizabeth: as soon as she gets home she starts taking picture with her mother in them Elizabeth: pictures Moderator: really Moderator: is she any nicer Moderator: any more generous Louise: she doesn't want them to be any better at anything than her Moderator: anymore considerate Jennifer: nope Louise: no she is still a brat lol Moderator: more importantly Louise, is she there to help them Elizabeth: no Jennifer: Lol Moderator: what does she want from them Louise: no to tear them down Moderator: is she in any of the pictures Moderator: this is where I need specifics Moderator: what does she want from them specifically Jennifer: she wants the items to for montrary values Jennifer: not the symbolic meanign Mama and Maggie see it Louise: she wants displays of her past without the true meaning of it Moderator: very good Louise Moderator: does she want to be identified as the child of sharecroppers Moderator: does she want to be identified as a farm girl Moderator: what specifically does she ask for Jennifer Jennifer: nope Jennifer: as an eductated woman Elizabeth: no Jennifer: she was the quilts, churn Jennifer: wants Moderator: this is where were to get into some symbolism there Moderator: what part of the churn does she want Louise: she wants to show her"hard" life Louise: just the handle Moderator: http://www.ci.port-washington.wi.us/SummerTheater/Oklahoma/Photos/SandyAllen/Thursday/AuntEllerButterChurn.jpg Elizabeth: the churn stood Moderator: how important is the butter churn to Maggie and her mother Moderator: and how do you know Jennifer: makes it seem she did "hard" work Elizabeth: Uncle Buddy made it Jennifer: to mama and maggie ti is in memory of Big Dee and Stash house because the churn was from tree with yellow wood Moderator: folks, what does a churn do Louise: im sorry have to go the baby won't stop crying Moderator: good luck Louise Louise: make butter Moderator: what did the Johnsons used this for Jennifer: NIght lousie Louise: k bye Moderator: what did Maggie and Mrs. Johnson used this particular device for... decoration or making butter Jennifer: Milk in it clabber by now" (Walker, 466) Elizabeth: stirring millk Moderator: explain what that is telling us Jennifer Jennifer: butter but Dee wants it as display Moderator: is this decoration or an actual useful tool Jennifer: They actually use it Moderator: yes Moderator: this is actually a very important element Moderator: all she wants is the top and the dasher, which is the stick that you see the lady holding onto in the picture that I posted Moderator: what use will this thing be if she takes those two bits Elizabeth: no use Elizabeth: just as decoration' Moderator: to Maggie and her mother have any other alternative for making butter if wangero takes the dasher of the butter churn Elizabeth: not really Jennifer: nit Jennifer: no Moderator: exactly Moderator: does wangero seem to care Jennifer: nopr Moderator: furthermore, why is Mrs. Johnson reticent to give wangero the quilts Elizabeth: no Jennifer: because they use it and dee wants it for display Jennifer: they have it for "everyday use" Elizabeth: they are just a sourvenir for Dee Moderator: exactly Jennifer Moderator: S. Elizabeth Moderator: yes, it was Moderator: yes, Elizabeth Moderator: why is Mrs. Johnson reticent to give wangero the quilts Jennifer: because they need it Jennifer: and use it Moderator: who does Jennifer: Mama and maggie Moderator: try again Jennifer Moderator: this is where paying attention to the detail of the story is imperative Jennifer: Maggie? Moderator: has mother been using the quilts according to her own explanation Moderator: for why Jennifer Moderator: why does Maggie need them Moderator: what will she use them for Jennifer: well in the end Maggie says "I can 'memeber Grandma Dee without the quilts" Jennifer: So she doesn't need them to remeber her past but uses them for "everyday use" Moderator: Jennifer, when wangero asks for the quilts her mother explains to her that Maggie needs them for something very specific Jennifer: For Maggie when she marrys John Thomas Elizabeth: Maggie would use the quilts for when she marries Moderator: yes Moderator: how come wangero doesn't get the quilts? Elizabeth: Mama offered her one of the quilts when she went to college.Dee said they were old fashioned out of style Jennifer: She was offered them but dencline because they were old fashioned Elizabeth: Now Dee changed her mind and she wants them. Jennifer: Wants them to display them as though thats the only thing you can do w a quilt Moderator: Very good Elizabeth Moderator: yes Jennifer Moderator: yes Elizabeth Moderator: yes Jennifer Moderator: what must have happened while she was at college to make wangero want quilts now Jennifer: She was educated on how her heritage is important Elizabeth: Show her heritage Jennifer: but was taught only the superfical facts Moderator: Jennifer, Elizabeth, do we get the impression that wangero is proud of being a child descended from slaves Moderator: that wangero is proud of being a child of people who live in the pasture Moderator: was proud of being a child of people who cannot read Moderator: try another answer that is far more logical and supportable... what do cityfolk think about handmade quilts Jennifer: not until she was educated of the "value" of the inheited items of her past but she changed her name which shows she doesn't want to be apart of her family anymore Elizabeth: cityfilk appreciate hand made things Moderator: yes... Jennifer yes... Elizabeth Elizabeth: people for the city appreciate the time that people take to make quilts Moderator: and what are they willing to do to show that appreciation Jennifer: display it Elizabeth: buy it at any price Moderator: your both correct Moderator: this has nothing to do with her personal attachment to this Jennifer: but there is no real price for the significant value behind the items Moderator: it has to do with her apparently new understanding that when she left behind has value that she missed Jennifer: but thats how they show apprecation Moderator: well Moderator: her argument against Maggie taking the quilts is what Jennifer: maggie can't appreciate these quilts She'd probably be backward enough to put them to everyday use! Moderator: yes... Moderator: they will be used Moderator: the word she uses Moderator: is tatters Moderator: suddenly wangero realizes that her sister will actually use these items to the point that their intrinsic value is lost if the intrinsic value is its artistic merit Moderator: but what is the real value Moderator: according to Maggie and her mothe Moderator: what do the quilts represent Jennifer: Grandma Dee Jennifer: And their past Elizabeth: their ancestors Jennifer: It has various clothing from different gernations Jennifer: It represents the family's pride, stuggles, and events Moderator: yes Jennifer yes Elizabeth Moderator: very good Moderator: therefore give me an overall theme that carries all the elements Moderator: especially Jennifer's last statement Moderator: what do we call that Moderator: it is our... Elizabeth: history? Jennifer: theme? Jennifer: hertiage Elizabeth: past? Moderator: Jennifer Moderator: heritage Moderator: very good Moderator: past and history would be also correct Elizabeth, but heritage carries with it a more symbolic conceptual idea because it's not the specifics of one's past but rather the overall Elizabeth: ok Moderator: end of your going to say that the quilt equal heritage, you would have to explain the adjectives that describe the quilt and the word heritage Moderator: which we will get to next week Moderator: good lord, look at the time Moderator: I will continue grading and I will let you know when things are ready to be picked up Jennifer: what story is next week? Moderator: we will finish this one Moderator: symbolism Jennifer: okie dokie Elizabeth: ok Moderator: we have not even really touched on the symbolism in Elizabeth: good night Professor Jennifer: ok Jennifer: Good Night Elixabeth and Professor Elizabeth: good Nnight Jennifer Moderator: take care both of you Moderator: poof