POST TEST 1 Moderator: 101 Moderator: hey now Moderator: I am grading tests currently by the way. You will get a response from me Moderator: hello Scott Scott[_]L: Howdy howdy Moderator: but we will discuss the test story today Scott[_]L: Did you get my SASE's? The girl at the testing center seemed confused. Moderator: that is often the case Scott‚Ķ confusion Scott[_]L: Did she give you that big bag of money? Scott[_]L: She didn't seem too confused about that. Rather excited, actually. Moderator: Ron, what was it about the fact that I'm going to be grading by e-mail or was it about the test response itself‚Ķ Moderator: hahahaha Moderator: Scott‚Ķ you know that Monopoly money only goes so far Scott[_]L: But that was USD... oh wait... Ron: last day to drop is monday. if you think things won't work out, it is your last chance to bail. Scott[_]L: I'll remember Rupees next time. Moderator: yes Ron‚Ķ the reason I send that out is because some people in a distance education class fail to do little things‚Ķ like take a test or turn in a paper. I don't think either of you is in that particular situation Ron: Woot Scott[_]L: Haha. Woot indeed. Moderator: also, some people have a very particular grade range in mind and if they do not think that they can recuperate from whatever they started out as, they may think it's better to try again with a different person Ron: So I feel like i didnt do to good on my test Moderator: I'm just giving you a heads up so that you don't find out much do your own chagrin that you can Not bail three weeks from now. Scott[_]L: I hope my block lettering wasn't too obnoxious on the test. It's just something i've been doing for so long with my run forms. Moderator: well let's talk about the test today and we can talk about the possible answers for the story. Moderator: actually, Scott, I love block lettering. It is clear and easy-to-read Moderator: is the people who write in upside down Sanskrit that drive me crazy Scott[_]L: Well then I am excited to know that I could anticipate your needs. Ron: I was tapped on my 3rd paragraph "You have ten minutes left" Ron: Lol flew by Scott[_]L: I think that's called "Helen Keller's Swahili" Moderator: hahaha Moderator: while Ron Moderator: well, Ron that is an issue Moderator: time management Moderator: and that's part of the skill. Moderator: That's why I do want you all to be ready to go before you get in there Moderator: in terms of what your are going to write about Moderator: hahaha Scott[_]L: Hahaha no worries Ron. I was finishing up my final sentence and that man scared the excrement out of me. Moderator: indeed, Scott Ron: haha Moderator: large bald fellow? Scott[_]L: No, I'm the large bald fellow. Ron: Haha Scott[_]L: He was a smaller balding fellow, though. Moderator: a different large bald fellow? Moderator: hahahah Moderator: balding‚Ķ thin and short Scott[_]L: That'd be him. Moderator: different guy\\ Moderator: but yes‚Ķ I'm sure he was polite but insistent Ron: Mr eiland did you have a student Christina Hoyos? Scott[_]L: haha he was polite, even apologized. Just was so focused on my paper that I didn't see him sneak up on me. Ron: Nvm.. Ron: Nevermind' Moderator: could have run, but it's been a while Moderator: could have been, Ron, but it has been a while Moderator: the last name sounds vaguely familiar Moderator: it is iconic enough Moderator: did she warn you Moderator: hahaah Scott[_]L: that'd be HoHo's, prof. Scott[_]L: completely different. Ron: Lol, no. Its my Mom I think she had you for her eng class a while back Moderator: hahah Scott[_]L: hahaha Moderator: that it's really been a while Moderator: well, if it's her, tell her I said hello Moderator: and it's not her, don't because that would just be creepy Ron: Alright Scott[_]L: Well then do you remember Sarah Madero? Ron: HAHA Moderator: no Ron: ooops on caps Moderator: I think I lost that brain cell back in 2006 Moderator: for me, it all goes away as soon as I get a new batch of people Scott[_]L: Haha. Haha she had you a year or two back Moderator: I meet 180 people every 18 weeks Scott[_]L: that's my lady. I'll make sure to let her know that she wasn't noteworthy. Moderator: will hopefully the scars have started to heal, Scott Moderator: Tell her I only remember the horrible ones‚Ķ the great ones passed gently through my mind Scott[_]L: haha... too many.... witty retorts.... overloading... Moderator: hahahaha Moderator: we will get to literary snarkiness later on in the semester Moderator: but let's talk about your test Scott[_]L: did you ever get that snark button installed? Ron: Did I miss my chance for the revision? Moderator: ( I knew there was a point to this conversation) Scott[_]L: yes yes Moderator: Monday Moderator: last day is Monday ron Moderator: for paper\ Ron: Ok thanks Scott[_]L: for which paper? the test? Ron: The paper Scott[_]L: or the Pawn/Redeem? Ron: I wish we can retake the test hah Moderator: paper‚Ķ pawn/redeem Moderator: well, I got some good news for you sunshine. Moderator: There will be a makeup test Ron: Lol Moderator: on a different story, but a chance to replace a great Scott[_]L: If Ron's sunshine, can I be the eclipse? Moderator: replacement raid Moderator: replace the grade Moderator: hahah Moderator: I was thinking more Moonbeam Scott[_]L: haha Ron: Lol Moderator: I'm feeling in the late 60s West Coast mood Moderator: but I digress Scott[_]L: That'll be my next tattoo Moderator: as usual Moderator: hahaha Moderator: but if you put flames on it it'll be totally butch Moderator: are maybe razor wire Scott[_]L: well i think it'll only add to the 6'0" shaved head thing I got going on. Moderator: you know Scott‚Ķ it's a look Moderator: didn't say what kind‚Ķ Moderator: but it is a look Scott[_]L: I do what I do well. Moderator: we cast no aspersions Scott[_]L: Impose. Moderator: we make no judgments Moderator: hahaha Moderator: so what did you write about on the test Scott[_]L: conflict and symbolism Scott[_]L: and words and such Moderator: let's start with the basics Moderator: conflicts Moderator: man versus man? Scott[_]L: Leroy vs. Norma Jean Moderator: Both you guys just lay them out there‚Ķ give me a conflict and the label of the conflict and tell me who it's between and what the beef is Moderator: in one sentence Moderator: one long sentence Moderator: or at least one posting Moderator: we will just blaze through this story Moderator: so to speak Ron: The big rig and leroy, symbolism. Ron: Represents his once stong self, now hes all broken down Ron: useless junk of a man Ron: haha Moderator: very good ron Moderator: what adjectives besides broken down and strong also apply between Leroy and the truck Moderator: what specifically is happening to the truck Moderator: that is happening to Leroy Ron: It's becoming imobile Moderator: very good Ron: immobile Ron: ? Moderator: his immobility stems from Scott[_]L: Sitting around, collecting dust. Moderator: two m's Ron: Thx Moderator: exactly Moderator: keep going Moderator: where is the truck Ron: In his backyard Scott[_]L: in the back yard. Off the road. Scott[_]L: Just like Leroy. He's no longer on the road. Ron: ooo Moderator: keep going Scott[_]L: And just like Leroy, Norma most likely is forced to see it every day. Scott[_]L: which is not something she is accustomed to. Ron: Wow good job Moderator: you're getting closer to what else we can do with this Moderator: what is happening to Lee Roy besides his dust-gathering on the couch Scott[_]L: i'm tingling with anticipation. Moderator: hahahah Ron: Dust is gathered on his rig? Moderator: well it's not that awesome... Moderator: hahahaha Scott[_]L: he's becoming a homebody. taking up women's hobbies Scott[_]L: hahaha Moderator: so to speak‚Ķ actually what I'm going for it is what has happened to the rig that's happened to him Moderator: in his relationship Ron: It's broken Moderator: yes, but I don't think you could apply that specifically back to the truck Scott Scott[_]L: Not bringing home the bacon Moderator: something else Scott[_]L: that was their means of income Moderator: what has happened to the truck that is happening to him Moderator: that's all literal , Scott Ron: His body parts arent working either Moderator: the truck really is physically not working‚Ķ so it's not really symbolic Moderator: that's a better answer Ron Moderator: what has happened to the truck that is happening to him in the context of his wife Moderator: remember that the truck represents him Ron: The truck is like his wife Moderator: not the relationship. That would be a different symbolism Moderator: no stop Ron: They have split? Ron: Oh Moderator: once you go down a particular road‚Ķ truck equals Ron, then finish those things Ron: ha Moderator: what has happened to the truck that is also happen to Ron Scott[_]L: "It sits in the backyard, like a gigantic bird that has flown home to roost" Ron: Its becoming old! Moderator: remembers symbolism has to do with that shared word‚Ķ that shared adjective or for worse saying that applies to both of them Moderator: old yes‚Ķ but that's not exactly where I'm going Moderator: Scott, translate that in terms of what Leroy's position is in his marriage Scott[_]L: He's been gone so long. Technically in a marriage, but not participating in it. Now the truck is in the backyard, stationary. Now Leroy is in the house, unable to work. Moderator: Leroy has_______________ the truck‚Ķ just as Norma Jean has_____________ Leroy Moderator: and keep it clean Moderator: yeah Scott‚Ķ that one you got Moderator: that's the way you explained it before. Moderator: He is in the house not working the truck is also not working Moderator: the truck is broken, he has broken Moderator: these are all true and they are all valid Moderator: but they're about him personally Scott[_]L: leroy has abandoned the truck just as norma jean has abandoned leroy? Moderator: now let's extend it to his relationships with others Moderator: very good Scott Moderator: does it work Scott[_]L: it does. Moderator: how does he feel about the truck and how does she feel about him Scott[_]L: she doesn't NEED him. he doesn't NEED the truck. Moderator: and does i't make sense Moderator: very good Moderator: they have both moved on Scott[_]L: it does make sense. She's off creating her own adventures. Leroy doesn't need the truck due to not being able to drive it and is looking to sell it. Moderator: is he also creating his own adventures without the truck Scott[_]L: big boy lincoln logs Moderator: creating a new life th]at does not involve the truck Moderator: hahahaa Ron: yup Moderator: everything ylu told me was correct‚Ķ I was just pushing it to the next level Moderator: is there a conflict associated with the truck then Moderator: one of the things that I want you to do for that triangular grade is to show me a connection between symbols or a connection between symbol and a conflict Moderator: especially if one conflict is symbolic of yet another conflict Scott[_]L: I'd say there's a conflict with the truck. It's a remnant of his past that is no longer needed in the present or the future. There is a lot of money tied up into it, and could be converted into capital in order for Leroy to follow other dreams. Scott[_]L: Gotcha. Moderator: but is he going to be able to do anything with it or is it a bad investment Ron: but would that be a conflict? Moderator: is that capital lost Moderator: is his investment lost Moderator: on a basic level‚Ķ does Leroy have a conflict with the truck Moderator: how does he feel about the truck Moderator: and label the conflict Scott[_]L: I don't really remember if it said that the truck was a total loss. He mentions selling it in order to buy what he needs for the cabin. Moderator: so he wants to salvage something Moderator: from his investment Scott[_]L: right Moderator: but in salvaging it, he's going to discard it Moderator: symbolism? Ron: Yes Scott[_]L: That tends to be how it goes. Ron: That wouldnt be a conflict right? Moderator: Who else is trying salvage something Ron: Norma jean Moderator: does Leroy have a conflict with the truck Moderator: Ron, that's the question I'm asking Scott[_]L: Norma Jean is trying to salvage her life, discarding Leroy. Moderator: explained Scott[_]L: salvage her marriage Moderator: very good scat Moderator: very good Scott Moderator: hahah Scott[_]L: I'll play some swing if you need me to. Ron: I was going to say that Ron: :] Moderator: we all knew that Ron‚Ķ Moderator: hahahah Moderator: is she trying to salvage the marriage Moderator: is that true Scott[_]L: I did steal that from Ron with my mind bullets. Moderator: if not, what is she trying to salvage Moderator: Allright Kreskin‚Ķ ease up Ron: Lol, and no she is not trying to salvage there marraige Ron: shes done Moderator: that is correct Ron Ron: marriage* Moderator: therefore what is she trying to salvage Moderator: at the expense of the marriage Ron: Her life Moderator: at the expense of Leroy Moderator: very good Moderator: this is where you could say that the truck is either the marriage that she's going to discard or Leroy that she's going to discard Moderator: either one works Scott[_]L: I'm following. Moderator: because‚Ķ NEITHER one works ( truck and Leroy_ Moderator: ) Moderator: hahahaha Moderator: Little symbolism humor Moderator: very little Moderator: man versus Scott[_]L: Had a good time with your friends from up north, eh? Scott[_]L: haha Moderator: truck versus Leroy Moderator: oh yes indeed my friend Moderator: hope to go up there to visit them at the end of the year Moderator: truck versus Leeroy equals Man versus? Scott[_]L: man made object? Moderator: That's not in the list Scott Moderator: man, nature, society, self Scott[_]L: well correct that Moderator: I'm working on it Ron: Lol man vs object Moderator: right as we speak Scott[_]L: hah Scott[_]L: You're so accommodating to my needs. Moderator: take one from the four listed above that seems most likely Ron: man vs man Moderator: make sure you mentioned that to the powers that be Moderator: well Ron, that it's not a person so it can't be man versus man Ron: nature Scott[_]L: pineapple Moderator: very good run Moderator: very good Ron Ron: Lol man vs man and its a big rig what was i thinking Moderator: very tropical Scott, but no Moderator: any object that is not human is going to be in the nature category Scott[_]L: got it Ron: K Moderator: whether it's a mountain or a tree or a building or a road or a dog or a large truck Moderator: so we have a man versus nature conflicts that symbolizes the conflict between Leroy and Norma Jean which obviously is man versus man Scott[_]L: right Ron: yes Moderator: two conflicts and a symbol in one fell swoop Scott[_]L: what if the dog is anthropomorphized? Moderator: does that make sense Moderator: still other animal Scott[_]L: gotcha Moderator: still nature Scott[_]L: I was curious about that. Thanks for clearing it up. Ron: so both symbolic and conflictual Scott[_]L: is it still the case if all the characters are anthropomorphized animals? Ron: is that a word? Scott[_]L: conflictual or anthropomorphized? Ron: conflictual Moderator: exactly run Moderator: then we really get into man versus man Scott Scott[_]L: alright. Moderator: I suppose we could say that the big bad Wolf and Little red riding that is a man versus man Moderator: because really what does the will symbolize Moderator: what does the wolf symbolize Ron: in general? Scott[_]L: a bad man Moderator: when you get into anthropomorphized characters, they are being used because of their human Moderator: very good Scott Moderator: so it really is man versus man Moderator: that Wolf is not canine‚Ķ the wolf is human Moderator: with animalistic tendencies Ron: wow Scott[_]L: awesome. Thanks. :) Moderator: so if you're doing that report on twilight‚Ķ they're all humans Moderator: hahahaha Scott[_]L: HOW DID YOU KNOW?! Scott[_]L: stop stealing my mind bullet ammo! Ron: Haha Moderator: hahah Moderator: because I know you're always good to go with the classics Moderator: other either symbols or conflicts Moderator: aya, did you read the story SHILOH Scott[_]L: mainly because I am classy, just like twilight. Moderator: that is the first adjective that comes to mind when we hear your name, Scott Ron: You must have been the guy with the TEAM EDWARD shirt on during the test Moderator: hahahah Ron: ;) Moderator: what otherr conflicts or symbols did you guys use on your test Ron: I was going to use the dust ruffle but time management was off Moderator: what was the dust ruffle‚Ķ conflict or symbolism or both Ron: Dust ruffle represented there marraige, always hiding things (Death of there son) No communication Moderator: okay Ron: but at the end Moderator: any importance to the color Scott[_]L: Shiloh is the marriage to Norma Jean in the aspect that Leroy had never been there, never really visited home and been there with his wife. Ron: Yes pale = death Aya 2: I read it briefly, but still confused...so I will read one more time. Moderator: very good Scott Moderator: and what happens when he does show up Scott Moderator: okay aya Moderator: what happens when he shows up to Shiloh and what happens when he shows up to the marriage Scott[_]L: it ends up not being what he expected it to be. Scott[_]L: just like shiloh, which he thought would be more like a golf course, it was full of gravemarkers Scott[_]L: just like his marriage, with signs of death Scott[_]L: It was THERE, but there was no real life in it. Scott[_]L: *crickets* Moderator: okay‚Ķ very good Scott Moderator: I was waiting for you to finish all of these connections Moderator: didn't want to cut you off Moderator: you are on a roll Scott[_]L: like butter! Ron: Good job Scott[_]L: also there were people visiting, peering into it Scott[_]L: like norma jean's mother Scott[_]L: looking for bullet holes Moderator: very good Scott[_]L: I'm sorry, there's a lot of different connections i gleaned from it, and they're kinda scattered in my mind, so don't mind me if they're all over the place right now. Moderator: well‚Ķ Moderator: what have the bullet holes Moderator: what had the bullet holes specifically Scott[_]L: what had the bullet holes specifically.....? Moderator: what object had bullet holes Scott[_]L: the log cabin Moderator: it wasn't Shiloh itself‚Ķ that's a large r graveyard, as you pointed out Scott[_]L: at shiloh Moderator: exactly Moderator: that changes your argument a bit because another log cabin is mentioned in the story Moderator: which means that Shiloh itself doesn't really have the bullet holes‚Ķ Scott[_]L: norma jean's mother literally lifted off the roof of his model log cabin and peered inside Moderator: but the fact that the log cabin is important because of course we have a different log cabin mention the story as well Moderator: very good Moderator: therefore log cabin equals Moderator: and you're trying to connect his model and the real one that they saw at the graveyard Scott[_]L: Like I said, I'm all over the place. Had a lot of criss-crossing connections going on with a few things in the story. Ron: Death of there marriage? Scott[_]L: the marriage itself Moderator: which one works better Scott[_]L: featureless Scott[_]L: no real amenities Moderator: the death of the marriage or the marriage itself will Scott[_]L: was THERE, but didn't have any substance. Moderator: so far I'm with you Scott Moderator: look at all the elements Moderator: whose idea is the log cabin Scott[_]L: Leroy Moderator: what does he say about it Scott[_]L: He wants to build Norma Jean a house like he promised. Scott[_]L: at the end?\ Moderator: what is her response Ron: In the end its a dumb idea Scott[_]L: too simple Scott[_]L: similarly empty Moderator: very good Scott[_]L: to the workings of his marriage Moderator: what does he say about building it Moderator: do things that she responds Moderator: two things she responds about Scott[_]L: dumbest idea he could have had. clumsy of him to think she would want a log house. Ron: There old and she doesnt like it Moderator: who's going to build it according to him Ron: Not functional Moderator: very good Ron‚Ķ in what ways is their marriage old to her Moderator: why Scott why would she not want a log house Scott[_]L: well for one she said that it wouldn't be good in the subdivisions popping up all over town. Ron: Well, hes no longer current Moderator: therefore she is saying what about his idea and therefore what about their marriage Moderator: very good Ron Scott[_]L: that it's not relevant Scott[_]L: to their situation. Ron: Hes old Moderator: well Scott, this is where she's staying it's not her decision Moderator: what Ron is focusing on is the fact she is rejecting him personally Moderator: because the examples that he's using from her response to him is that she doesn't want it personally Moderator: your examples are focusing on the fact that the community would not allow him to do that in those subdivisions Ron: She doesnt want what he is offering Moderator: those are two different men versus conflicts Ron: she doesnt want him Scott[_]L: i had a question about that, then. Scott[_]L: regarding norma jean, the subdivisions, leroy and the log house Moderator: but also, her focusing on the community response tells us something about how people feel about marriage according to her Moderator: go ahead, Scott Moderator: you are correct run Moderator: you are correct, Ron Scott[_]L: how he noticed with all of these subdivisions being built, but nobody's actually there. population hasn't gone up Scott[_]L: people that he remembered seeing aren't there anymore. Scott[_]L: despite these fancy subdivisions being put up Moderator: keep in mind Moderator: that you pointed out that the log cabin equals their marriage Moderator: therefore her subdivision equals what Moderator: therefore a subdivision equals what Ron: her new beginning? Scott[_]L: her desires? progress? Moderator: No Moderator: what is a subdivision Ron: Idk Scott[_]L: a group of homes on a street Moderator: and what represents their marriage? Scott[_]L: log cabin Ron: a old log cabin Moderator: What is going on in society that Leroy is observing Ron: everything has changed Moderator: a subdivision would equal Scott[_]L: housing boom Ron: passed him by Ron: just like he said Moderator: guys‚Ķ follow me Moderator: once you start a symbolic logical connection, you're going to stay with that logical to connection to make further analyses Moderator: use had essentially that house equals marriage Moderator: a log cabin is a house Moderator: there for a subdivision Moderator: ‚Ķ Ron: Oh Moderator: what is going on around them Moderator: that Leroy is noticing Moderator: that also might be prompting Norma Jeane to her decision Ron: Everything is changing Moderator: be specific Moderator: everything in terms of what Ron: hes to old fashioned Ron: no progress for her Scott[_]L: New houses are being built in subdivisions across the town. But he doesn't see anybody new there. "who lives in them?" Ron: I get what your saying but I cant word it Moderator: if log cabin equals marriage Moderator: and a log cabin is a house Moderator: therefore house also equals Moderator: this is a math problem Moderator: it's also a logic problem Moderator: if a equals B. and B. equals C, A =C Scott[_]L: house also equals marriage Moderator: yes Moderator: and therefore a subdivision is Scott[_]L: subdivisions are new marriages? Moderator: yes Moderator: marriages Ron: Didnt see that one Moderator: when was the story written Scott[_]L: 80s Moderator: what kind of marriage does Leroy want Scott[_]L: 82 Ron: an old one Moderator: and doesn't fit the type of marriage that's going on in society‚Ķ the type of relationship Ron: non func Moderator: and does it fit the type of marriage that is going on in society‚Ķ the type of relationship Moderator: we not nonfunctional Moderator: not nonfunctional Moderator: a log house is not nonfunctional Moderator: it is very functional Moderator: it is not very elaborate Moderator: it is not sophisticated Ron: true Moderator: it is completely function only Moderator: to strip down Moderator: old-style Moderator: however, what is going on in the 1980s in terms of RELATIONSHIPS Moderator: the new housing style Scott[_]L: women's empowerment Scott[_]L: liberation Moderator: of sorts Moderator: what is the new marriage style Moderator: of the 1980s Moderator: this is actually post women's Lib Moderator: this is the Reagan era Moderator: when there was a huge backlash against women's rights\ Moderator: but there was another issue Scott[_]L: trickle down monogomy? Moderator: economics Scott[_]L: haha Moderator: hahahaha Moderator: describe the economics in Lee Roy and Norman Kings family Ron: all the houses have been built, Ron: no need for his business Ron: ? Scott[_]L: she's making the money now Scott[_]L: he's on disability Moderator: described economic situation in Lee Roy and Norman genes family Moderator: yes Ron: shes getting strong Moderator: is this the old-fashioned Ron: workin out Moderator: log cabin way of marriage Scott[_]L: nope. Moderator: what is going on in the 1980s Scott[_]L: norma jean is not Laura Ingles Wilder Moderator: what is the new marriage style Moderator: exactly Moderator: nice reference Ron: Guess im to young to know what that means Scott[_]L: thanks ron Scott[_]L: jerk. Moderator: hahah Scott[_]L: lol Ron: Lol Moderator: it's a classic Moderator: can you feel the love in the room? Scott[_]L: youtube little house on the prairie, then. haha Ron: Ohh Scott[_]L: maybe hulu it Scott[_]L: haha Ron: haha Moderator: what is the new style of relationship‚Ķ the new style of marriage Moderator: the old style was man does what and woman does what Moderator: and the new style is‚Ķ Moderator: fill in the blanks Scott[_]L: old style was man works and woman stays at home to tend house Moderator: yes Moderator: and the new style? Ron: yes, and now the new style is both must work? Moderator: The 1980s style Moderator: yes Moderator: why is he not seen people around Scott[_]L: Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the new style where now it's a dual income household? Scott[_]L: both work? Moderator: there something else going on Moderator: Scott, yes Scott[_]L: nobody's at home since they're both working Moderator: that's what Ron said Ron: He see's nobody because there at work Moderator: that's one way to look at it Scott[_]L: go ron! Moderator: there's another way to look at it‚Ķ Ron: ha Moderator: what else is on the rise besides dual incomes Moderator: their building houses but no one is moving in Moderator: translate the symbol Moderator: that you guys brought it up in the first place Scott[_]L: well you can blame me for that, ron. Scott[_]L: unemployment is on the rise? Scott[_]L: nobody can afford the new homes? Moderator: remember, home is not a house Moderator: home is a marriage Scott[_]L: houses* Moderator: empty houses Moderator: what else is on the rise Moderator: symbolized by empty houses Ron: DIVORCE!!!!! Ron: woot woot Moderator: YES Scott[_]L: i'll second that woot woot Moderator: remember that one of the things I always ask you to do is to look at the era in which the work is written because it often gives us some kind of historical context Ron: That was tough Moderator: and certainly in this case, what might be giving Norma Jean the idea that she's free to go Moderator: that she has an alternative Scott[_]L: can we talk about dr. strangelove, then? that's my favorite movie. Scott[_]L: haha Ron: Didnt see it that way Moderator: hahahah Moderator: later Scott‚Ķ later Scott[_]L: it's in the book. just sayin... Scott[_]L: page 269 Scott[_]L: that's what they were seeing at the double feature when their child died Moderator: well let's finish this point first Moderator: whether the bullet holes in the log cabin Moderator: remember the log cabin? Ron: yes Moderator: What are the bullet holes in the log cabin at Shiloh Scott[_]L: Well I would say that they're battle scars Ron: There struggle Moderator: just like Ron: with there relationship Moderator: yes Scott[_]L: Their marriage has had battle scars too Scott[_]L: their child dying, him not being home Moderator: do the bullet holes go all the way through Moderator: yes Moderator: ] Ron: yes Moderator: therefore Moderator: what is the benefit of a log cabin Moderator: why would anybody want a log cabin Moderator: and how is it different from a regular house Moderator: primarily Ron: low cost easier to fix ? Ron: not much effort Ron: ? Scott[_]L: simple Moderator: think of the bullets Moderator: what a log cabin made out of Scott[_]L: wood Moderator: please don't say logs Scott[_]L: haha Ron: Lol Scott[_]L: cellulose Moderator: actually most houses in the West are made out of wood Moderator: that's what I was looking for Scott Moderator: the microbiology level Moderator: seriously‚Ķ Ron: cellulose? Scott[_]L: oh really? Moderator: what would be the benefit of having a cabin made out of logs Scott[_]L: was being a jackass Moderator: hahah Moderator: NO" Moderator: I knew THAT Moderator: we will get to irony shortly Scott[_]L: cabins take much longer to burn than modern houses Moderator: hahaha Scott[_]L: sturdier Ron: take much more hits Moderator: yes but the fire is not an issue in the story Moderator: bullets are Scott[_]L: thicker walls Moderator: yes Moderator: why would Leroy want to build a log cabin marriage Moderator: make the connection symbolically Scott[_]L: 2x4's, particle board, gypsum aren't that sturdy Moderator: exactly Ron: yes Moderator: even Lathe and plaster is not going to stop a bullet Moderator: why would Leroy want to build a log cabin marriage‚Ķ what happened to their old house/marriage Moderator: you already told me what the bullet symbolize Scott[_]L: fell apart Ron: Wasnt strong enough Scott[_]L: couldn't withstand the damage Moderator: so why would he want a log cabin marriage‚Ķ what does he expect it will do for them Scott[_]L: so having a log home is something that is bulky, heavy Scott[_]L: it will last Scott[_]L: against the elements Moderator: it will last against what elements Scott[_]L: conflicts. external conflicts as well Moderator: yes Moderator: the bullets of life? Moderator: Misfortune and lost jobs and car accidents? Scott[_]L: the man getting him down. plus the cop can't break down his log home to get at him smoking it up on the couch. Scott[_]L: having something strong and stable there regardless of what's happening around him. Ron: well put Scott[_]L: "thank you, sunshine," said moonbeam. Ron: Lol Moderator: hahahaah Moderator: since we don't have any cops breaking down any doors, log house or otherwise, we will stick with a strong and stable‚Ķ which doesn't relate to their relationship Scott[_]L: I'd rather be down there anyway. Moderator: which does relate to their relationship Moderator: but also, what was the state of the log cabin in Shiloh Moderator: and what does it tell us about its ability to withstand the slings and arrows of misfortune Scott[_]L: well it was still standing after 100 years. Scott[_]L: being in a real battle Moderator: is Leroy correct in assuming that his newly rebuilt house/newly rebuilt marriage would be unscathed Moderator: yes Scott but the bullets went right through it Scott[_]L: not unscathed Moderator: so what happened to the inhabitants Moderator: would happen to the individuals within the marriage/house Scott[_]L: death becomes them Ron: They become death Scott[_]L: having the illusion of safety and fortification, but the bullets still went through Scott[_]L: Almost seems like a log cabin to him would be like a garrison Scott[_]L: a place to bunker down in when the excrement was hitting the fan Scott[_]L: not necessarily protecting him from the bullets, but he still had the illusion that it would Scott[_]L: until his marriage fell apart and he realizes that his dreams and focus on that sort of house really didn't matter after all Moderator: very good Moderator: to see why the author gave us both the log cabin at the beginning of the story and also the log cabin at the end Moderator: because the symbolic nature of that log cabin‚Ķ it's thickness and sturdiness and immutability Moderator: we begin to see its fragility and the fact that he is kidding himself about not only the cabin but also the marriage Scott[_]L: (she should've went with bricks, having a last name like that) Moderator: and its ability to withstand what has gone through it Moderator: hahhaha Moderator: the third pig thought that was a good idea Scott[_]L: right. the log cabin was just another scar on the battlefield Scott[_]L: an empty remnant of what happened Scott[_]L: didn't truly protect the inhabitants Moderator: just like his log cabin‚Ķ Moderator: will not save their marriage Scott[_]L: LOVE IS A BATTLEFIELD! Scott[_]L: sorry. been holding that in. Moderator: hahhaha Moderator: well, as a last resort you always need to throw in a little Benatar Moderator: its era appropriate as well Scott[_]L: see! I'm not as arbitrary as I come off. Ron: Very good Moderator: hahahaha Ron: Unfortunately I have to get off, I will read the rest of the chat Moderator: other symbols and conflicts Ron: Thanks prof. Later scott Moderator: enjoy your evening ron Moderator: it has been real Scott[_]L: take care, Ron Moderator: it has been fun Scott[_]L: it has been fun Scott[_]L: *shakes fist* Moderator: jinx Moderator: hahahah Ron: Lol later Moderator: take care Moderator: Scott‚Ķ how about some easy obvious stuff for our readers at home Moderator: man versus man conflicts Scott[_]L: that sounds wonderful Moderator: we've been doing all the symbolic stuff Moderator: what's the most obvious man versus man conflict Moderator: in the story Scott[_]L: leroy vs norma jean Scott[_]L: norma jean vs her mother Scott[_]L: Dr. Strangelove vs. nazi inner self Scott[_]L: And just like leroy, Dr. Strangelove cannot walk that well. Scott[_]L: ponder on that for a second, folks. Moderator: hahaha Moderator: was well, what I'm looking for is a description of the conflict between Leroy and Norma Jean Moderator: and then we can talk about the significance of the movie in the story Moderator: but you have to give me the conflicts first Moderator: the description of the conflict between Norma Jean and her mother Scott[_]L: well one main conflict was about the idea of building a log cabin Moderator: one of the elements of a test like this one is that people miss opportunities to give me the most basic things in order to get some points. Moderator: And again, to move things along Scott can you just tell me in one sentence both sides of the conflict‚Ķ he says, she says in terms of the log cabin Scott[_]L: "i don't want to live in any log cabin." -- "it's not a cabin. It's a house." -- "I don't care. It looks like a cabin." Scott[_]L: leroy wants to build one. norma jean doesn't want one. Moderator: that's it Moderator: what about Norma Jean versus her mother Scott[_]L: after catching her smoking, her mother makes backhanded comments about child neglect Moderator: so clearly the conflict is more than just a single element Moderator: explain please Scott[_]L: (p. 273,274) in talking about a baby whose legs were "chewed off" by a dog, norma's mother mentions that "they thought it was neglect" Moderator: yes Moderator: ... Scott[_]L: norma jean holds her ears, obviously not wanting part of the conversation Scott[_]L: norma jean says "she just said that about the baby beacuse she caught me smoking. she's trying to pay men back" Scott[_]L: she knows her mother is mad at her about smoking. Scott[_]L: and she knows that the comment was meant to hurt her. Moderator: yesterday, but what is the conflict that is underlying this conversation Moderator: actually it's more than that Moderator: what is her mother really mad about Scott[_]L: the disgrace of getting pregnant in the first place Scott[_]L: back when she was 18 Moderator: yes Moderator: what's the connection Moderator: what is the symbolic connection Scott[_]L: about getting pregnant at 18? Scott[_]L: or that the SIDS death of her child is being attributed as neglect by norma jean's mother, just like between the dog and the child in the news Scott[_]L: since they were watching a movie and not necessarily paying direct attention to their child Moderator: while there is a duality there Moderator: what else are they not paying attention to Moderator: what else were they not paying attention to Scott[_]L: their marriage Moderator: why would the mother be so upset Moderator: before that Moderator: why his Mabel so upset about the pregnancy Scott[_]L: since in her eyes NJ's but a baby herself? Scott[_]L: I guess I'm not picking up what you're putting down. Moderator: how does Mabel feel about Leroy according the story Scott[_]L: well he said that she never really forgave him for disgracing her by getting Norma Jean pregnant. Moderator: disgrace Moderator: wide disgrace Moderator: why is the mother disgraced Scott[_]L: child out of wedlock? Moderator: how does that relate to smoking Scott[_]L: oh Scott[_]L: bringing it upon herself Scott[_]L: Smoking is not necessarily attributed for being healthy. (though delicious) Moderator: absolutely accept Moderator: we are looking for a connection for these people Moderator: having children is not bad for your health Moderator: necessarily Moderator: smoking is Moderator: it's where she's doing the smoking Moderator: it's how she's going about the smoking Moderator: and how she went about her relationship with Lee Roy Moderator: that led to pregnancy Moderator: and then the marriage Scott[_]L: sneaking Moderator: yes Scott[_]L: behind her back Moderator: that's it Moderator: yes Moderator: she also brings up the dog because it's not only sneaking, Moderator: it's neglect Moderator: they didn't do things the right way Scott[_]L: and i think having children is bad for the health, btw. Moderator: well, it certainly wouldn't do YOUR body any good Scott[_]L: haha Moderator: but there are certain health benefits for women Moderator: hahahah Scott[_]L: hahaha Scott[_]L: i don't think parasites growing inside of you is a benefit Scott[_]L: but i digres Scott[_]L: digress Moderator: \ it is a mixed bag Moderator: hahaah at Moderator: there is a little bit of payback so it's more of a symbiotic relationship Scott[_]L: hahaha Moderator: even for dad if you know what I'm saying Moderator: rewrites due Monday Scott[_]L: how would she know that she liked peanut butter and pickles on top of the rocky road ice cream if it weren't for the baby? Moderator: we will announce a makeup test probably toward the end of next week to run the following week Moderator: there you go Moderator: good eats Scott[_]L: thank you, A.B. Moderator: the next thing you know, some of the uncut cake wars will be making the peanut butter pickle rocky road ice cream Scott[_]L: *shudders* Moderator: someone on cupcake wars will be making the peanutbutter pickle Rocky Road ice cream special Moderator: on that happy note Scott[_]L: I love the food network, I really do. But I am sick of cakes, cupcakes, anything cakes all over that thing. Moderator: yes Moderator: I agree Moderator: I'm more of a chopped and Alton Brown guy Scott[_]L: I'll stick with Alton Brown, chopped and iron chef Moderator: and I like the original iron Chef Scott[_]L: you're creeping me out, Eliand. Scott[_]L: get out of my brain Moderator: hahahaah Moderator: in that case, have a lovely week Scott[_]L: haha thank you Scott[_]L: Any ETA on the test grade? Moderator: read everyday use for next week Moderator: you're going to hear from me within the next three days Scott[_]L: and you said I have until Monday to get you the paper rewrite? Moderator: for good or for ill Moderator: that is correct Moderator: but no later than Monday Scott[_]L: gotcha. Moderator: have a good weekend Moderator: be safe out there Scott[_]L: you should have it by the end of the week. thanks for the comments. It's nice to know what i can actually do to improve Moderator: I try to be helpful Scott[_]L: rather than *insert grade here with no explanation* Moderator: like I said, it's all process Scott[_]L: but that's more of an issue with another prof who is not on my happy list right now. Moderator: well good luck with that Scott[_]L: thank you. and thanks for the input in class. always beneficial Moderator: welcome and thanks for being in the chat. Always enjoyable Scott[_]L: take care. and don't let the Ruskies take your precious bodily fluids. Moderator: hahahah Scott[_]L: that flouridation will do it to you every time. Moderator: yes but look at my awesome Teeth Scott[_]L: just because you can take them out and brush them doesn't make it awesome Moderator: aya, try not to dominate the conversation so much next week okay? He's got to have a chance to say something Scott[_]L: Yeah, Aya. I couldn't get a word in, edgewise. Moderator: yes, but it's convenient that I can brush the bottoms andthe tops Scott[_]L: haha Moderator: alright‚ I'm officially kicking you out of here Scott[_]L: i'll look forward to getting your email. have a good week Scott[_]L: see ya Scott[_]L: g'night Moderator: take care Moderator: poof