PRETEST CHAT. Symbolism Louise: good evening all Moderator: hey now Moderator: still loading Flavio: Hi Jennifer: Hey Moderator: have you seen the test assignment Louise: no Jennifer: No Moderator: go to blackboard now please Elizabeth: no Flavio: i'm on it Jennifer: Me to Flavio: no test assignment Flavio: i see it now Moderator: in a test folder Moderator: test one Moderator: thank you Moderator: read it Moderator: and then I'll explain what we're going to Jennifer: FOund it Moderator: essentially, your paper is due soon‚Ķ that means we move onto the next section which is doing the same thing in a shorter version Moderator: a paper and a test are the same and that you are analyzing literature in a literary fashion Flavio: ok. so the test 1 is on our stories book? Moderator: the difference is time and length Moderator: the test is on a story in your book‚Ķ yes Moderator: when you write a paper, you are expected to elaborate on several elements and to touch on as many of those elements as possible in a complex thought full way Flavio: are we allowed to take notes or just our book and the required blue book etc Moderator: you have a great deal of time to work on it and several opportunities to edit it before you hand it in Moderator: hold on a minute and I'll explain Flavio: ok Moderator: once you do hand it in, I grade it, and you have one more chance to revise it based on my suggestions Moderator: a test is different Flavio: ok Moderator: while you are going to be analyzing literature on a test as you do on paper, there is an understanding that you're going to be asked a much more focused question and you're going to be a writing under timed conditions and therefore the work is going to be significantly shorter Louise: ok Moderator: you will have 80 minutes Moderator: you must create five paragraphs within the 80 minutes Flavio: which the body have to have 10 sentences? Moderator: introduction, three body paragraphs in a conclusion Moderator: at least flavio Flavio: ok got it Jennifer: Books or notes allowed? Moderator: I'm getting there Jennifer: Ok Moderator: like your paper, the introduction and conclusion are both short‚Ķ no less than two and no more than five sentences Flavio: ok Moderator: your thesis statement should reflect the question is being asked Moderator: according to what you see on the assignment, what is the point of the test Flavio: ok Moderator: in other words, what specific elements in my looking for in your thesis statement Jennifer: ok Moderator: I am actually asking you a question right now Louise: lol Louise: you are looking for a summary of the main topics we will be writing about Louise: short and sweet Flavio: symbolism, conflict Moderator: no Louise Moderator: yes flavio Louise: oh Moderator: the reason that flvio's answers better is because he is specific Flavio: at least three quotes Moderator: I am not asking for interpretive or escapist Moderator: round or flat Jennifer: basically the thesis exaplains symbolism and conflict in the story and the example we will use Moderator: linear or nonlinear Moderator: Gennifer you will simply tell me that symbolism and conflict are used by the author to create some overall theme‚Ķ some overall idea Moderator: do not list your specific symbols or conflicts in the introduction Moderator: you will do that one by one in the body paragraphs anyway Jennifer: ok got it Flavio: so pretty much be vague in your intro without saying much? Moderator: not really flavio. Moderator: its not being vague‚Ķ I need you to mention Moderator: symbolism I need you to mention conflict if you're going to use it .I need you to mention the author's name in the title of the work Louise: always include the title and author in the intro right? Moderator: yes Louise Moderator: Alice Walker is every day use uses conflict and symbolism to show a battle between a daughter and the rest of her family Flavio: but it can be both, symbolism and conflict Moderator: everyday use by Alice Walker uses conflict and symbolism to demonstrate the difference between those who are educated in schools and those who are educated in skills Flavio: depending on the story Moderator: yes‚Ķ and also depending on your choice Louise: ok Flavio: got it Moderator: you should know what you're going to discuss before you get there Moderator: bringing the book or a copy of the story Moderator: a blue book Moderator: and a pen Moderator: you may highlight or underline passages that you're going to quote from directly Moderator: you may write one or two word notations in the margins‚Ķ nothing more than that‚Ķ no outline, no sentences, no paragraphs Flavio: ok no notes at all--got it! Moderator: before you go in there you already know which symbols and/or which ironies you're going to discuss Moderator: you must label conflicts Moderator: man versus man Moderator: man versus nature Moderator: man versus environment Moderator: man versus self Moderator: man versus society Moderator: if you give me a symbol, with which we will discuss today, you must discuss its literal meaning as well as its conceptual meaning Moderator: you're looking for, optimally 15 to 25 sentences per body paragraph with at least one or two quotations minimum in each paragraph Moderator: you must use the terminology specifically Flavio: ok Elizabeth: ok Moderator: don't inundate me with quotation‚Ķ you're only allowed to use about 20 to 25% of any given body paragraph as quotation‚Ķ the rest has to be you painter 2: ok Moderator: the test starts next Tuesday and runs to the following Monday Moderator: you go to the testing center‚Ķ the second floor of the building on campus‚Ķ it's above the children's Center Elizabeth: that means we can take it any day? Moderator: EDC building Moderator: yes Elizabeth Moderator: the testing center is open Monday through Saturday Elizabeth: do we have to bring our ID? Flavio: yup Elizabeth: ok Louise: yes Moderator: yes Elizabeth, absolutely‚Ķ check the times, but last semester they were open from 8 to 8 Monday through Thursday Elizabeth: ok Moderator: we will not discuss this story until after you've taken the test Moderator: we will discuss a different story in the context of conflict and symbolism today to help you practice for the test Moderator: any questions Flavio: ok Elizabeth: no Jennifer: you buy blue books from the bookstore right? Moderator: it for some reason you need any special accommodations, contact DSP&S and let them know you're having a test and they will contact me Moderator: yes Moderator: blue books are available in the bookstore‚Ķ bookstore is not open Saturday usually Moderator: so plan ahead Jennifer: what accomodations woudl be made for someone in a wheelchair? Jennifer: like a desk or something? Moderator: talk to them Jennifer‚Ķ day will take care of you‚Ķ Moderator: I work with Vince and Audrey all the time Moderator: they will take care of you Jennifer: ok great Moderator: but let them know right away so that way they can make sure that you have whatever you need Jennifer: ok Moderator: any other questions about the test Elizabeth: one more question Moderator: of course Elizabeth Elizabeth: after we finish, we leave the blue book in the testing center right?? Elizabeth: you will pick them up later? Moderator: yes Elizabeth: ok Moderator: any other questions about the paper Jennifer: ok Louise: ok painter 2: ok Elizabeth: i have a question Profesor Moderator: go-ahead Elizabeth: after i get back my paper.if i have a question or questions about it.can i go to your office and go over Moderator: of course Elizabeth Moderator: especially if you cannot read my writing Moderator: hahhaah Flavio: lol painter 2: lol Moderator: any other questions about paper or test one Louise: we email you the paper right? Moderator: yes‚Ķ ATTACHED using Word or pages Louise: ok painter 2: for the paper are we limited to only the characters listed on blackboard or can we talk about other characters from the story as well...it is just that while i was writing i started to develop an idea that deals with a character not listed Moderator: painter, the three I definitely want are Jackson, the policeman, and the pawnbroker‚Ķ Flavio: professor if i stay until 815-830 do i still have to write on the chat response? I have to go to work today at 9 :/ Moderator: you may choose any other two, but usually Mary And the bartender are good choices... but you could also do the three eludes or the barflies Moderator: no flavio, youre good Flavio: thank you. Moderator: any of the questions about the paper or the test Jennifer: im good :) Moderator: did everyone read Shiloh Elizabeth: yes Jennifer: yup Flavio: yes Moderator: another uplifting tale Flavio: interesting story Jennifer: lol Flavio: i didn't like the edning Moderator: one semester so many asked me halfway through if everybody dies during the course of each story Moderator: I think in this one I think eventually somebody to ask me if everybody is either an alcoholic or a stoner in each story Louise: lol that is fitting Moderator: hheyyyyy... I'm standing right here Louise: i didn't like the ending either Flavio: hahaha that's true. Moderator: let's talk about symbolism in general first Moderator: symbolism is an author's use of an object, item, character or action that means both something literal in the story as well as something conceptual Moderator: the idea of symbolism is that it adds layers of meaning to work. You are inundated with symbolism all the time through television, but public media, movies books etc. Moderator: for example, some of you read a story called "tooth and claw" in which an alcoholic loner, in order to impress an attractive female bartender, engages in a bet in which he "wins" a dangerous wild animal. she goes home with him to establish a home for the animal and what follows is a very brief relationship after which she dumps him. The story ends when he locks himself in the room with this wild animal. Moderator: what does the character Junior in ‚"tooth and claw‚" claim that he wants to do or be Flavio: be with daria Flavio: fit in? Louise: he wanted to be with the waitress Louise: with Moderator: what does the waitress symbolize to him Moderator: what does she represent Louise: have a normal life Jennifer: love, happiness Elizabeth: a family Flavio: not be lonely Moderator: what is the list of adjectives that would both describe the concept of love as well as the character Daria Moderator: what is the list of descriptors that would describe both the concept of family as well as the character Daria Moderator: what do ‚Äúnormal life‚Äù and the waitress have in common Moderator: when you are able to answer that those types of questions, you have a connection between the literal thing‚Ķ a waitress that works in the bar, and the conceptual what she represents to the main character Louise: love Louise: ? Moderator: Louise, tell me which question your answering Moderator: love refers to which two things Jennifer: love is described as not being alone, happiness, passion and since was a depressed man he believed darlas love would help him Louise: what she represents to him Moderator: Jennifer, in order for something to be symbolic instead of it being a descriptor itself, you have to be able to describe her as love Moderator: for example Moderator: what does the guy drive Jennifer: old mustang Moderator: what does the Mustang REPRESENT Moderator: we know the old Mustang IS a car Moderator: what does it REPRESENT Moderator: where did he get the car Jennifer: it was his fathers Moderator: what does it represent Moderator: you are correct Jennifer Moderator: what does it represent Louise: family ties? Louise: lol Elizabeth: an attachement or connection to his father Moderator: yes Louise Moderator: yes Elizabeth Moderator: why Jennifer: represents old ties w his dad Moderator: how Flavio: history Moderator: partly Elizabeth: it belonged to his dad.his dad drove it Moderator: what else does he have that catches him to his father Louise: it shows he has strong family ties Moderator: yes Elizabeth Moderator: Louise, do we get the feeling that he was close to his father? Louise: family is important to him Louise: yes painter 1: im sorry my computer died on me so i did not see the answer to my question about using other characters in the paper in addition to the main 3 Moderator: Painter, choose any other to Moderator: two Moderator: what else does he have from his father Moderator: besides the car painter 1: ok thanks Flavio: memories Elizabeth: his dad"s name Moderator: yes Elizabeth Jennifer: he drinks liike him Moderator: yes Jennifer Moderator: yet what does that mean character claimed he wants to do in relation to his father Elizabeth: be exactly like his dad Elizabeth: act the same Moderator: he wants to be exactly like his father? Flavio: directly--no Jennifer: no but he ends up like him Moderator: flavio, finish your answer Moderator: yes Jennifer‚Ķ Moderator: what does the Mustang and the name of and his behavior represent for this character Moderator: what they symbolize for him Moderator: regardless of his stated intention as to not end up like his father Flavio: well, in the story it does not mention anything about his following his father steps; however, it appears like he is because he goes to the bar and drinks a lot. Elizabeth: the old car and his dad's name represent a patter that he will follow Elizabeth: pattern Moderator: yes Moderator: if we realize that, what is the likelihood that he will be successful in reinventing himself as a person other than his early dead father Moderator: if we are given the symbolism?? Jennifer: not likely Elizabeth: he wont succeed Louise: more than likely he will not be able to create his own self Louise: he only knows one way and its hard to change Moderator: What symbolism in this case does is sets out a trail of evidence‚Ķ of imagery‚Ķ that tells us something about the character that the character may not even realize himself that tells us something about the character's future Moderator: so that girl represents something to him‚Ķ Moderator: his father died young and alone Moderator: what does the girl represent to this character Louise: security Elizabeth: stability Moderator: in what ways Louise Louise: he wants to have a relationship with her Moderator: in what ways Elizabeth Jennifer: avoiding his father path Moderator: Louise, that is true, but then you have to tell me how relationship equals security to him Louise: so he doesn't end up alone Moderator: yes‚Ķ that's better Moderator: Jennifer I'd ask you the same question Jennifer: if he can have darlas love he wont die young and alone but happy and loved Moderator: there you go Moderator: in a public way, what would being associated with the daria mean Moderator: for him Moderator: what would she to the public Moderator: in terms of what he is Elizabeth: so he can show the society that he can have a wife and maybe a better life than his dad had Moderator: very good‚Ķ therefore she represents what Elizabeth: change Jennifer: a normal life Louise: a security blanket from hurt and aloneness Moderator: Louise pretty good Moderator: Jennifer very good Moderator: Elizabeth you have to tell me what kind Elizabeth: a positive change in his life Moderator: in this case, the woman for him represents a future, a normal life, the things that he always wanted,‚Ķ therefore, when she leaves him, what effect does it have on him in terms of his sense of self in terms of his own view of his future Moderator: better answer Lizbeth Moderator: because we have to explain why a guy loses a girlfriend and then he essentially commits suicide Louise: He sees that he is going to end up like his father alone and dead at an early age Flavio: he has nothing Moderator: because the loss of her represents what Moderator: the loss of her represents the loss of‚Ķ white Louise: his stable normal life he is trying to create Moderator: perhaps more than that Louise Louise: the loss of his father? Elizabeth: the loss of hope? Moderator: Elizabeth better answer Moderator: because that explains the suicide Moderator: ERA lost his father Moderator: he had already lost his father Moderator: it is the loss of hope which explains his behavior Moderator: does that make sense Louise: oh ok Elizabeth: yes Flavio: yes Moderator: symbolism is important because it helps the author to not have to explain everything in the obvious literal way and therefore ruin some of the subtlety. Moderator: For example, what does the regalia that Jackson wants back represent Jennifer: family culture his past Elizabeth: his past and culture Flavio: family and history Louise: his grandmother and family Moderator: explain how the Regalia equals culture Moderator: do not tell me that it is used in ceremonies‚Ķ that is what the regalia IS Moderator: what has happened to the regalia Moderator: equals Moderator: what has happened to his culture Moderator: would have happened to the regalia equals what has happened to his family Jennifer: it was stolen for them Moderator: what has happened to the Regalia equals what has happened to his family Moderator: very good Jennifer‚Ķ explain how the culture was stolen from them Elizabeth: when whites took their lands Jennifer: the white overpowered them Louise: when it was stolen a part of them was lost with the regalia Flavio: professor i have to go. sorry about that. Moderator: and then did what with the lands‚Ķ remember what the pawnbroker wants to do with the regalia in terms of Jackson Moderator: it's okay, flavio Flavio: bye everyone. Thanks. Louise: bye Elizabeth: bye Moderator: Louise, you would have to say something like if part of the culture was lost, part of the regalia was lost to Louise: sold them Moderator: exactly Louise Elizabeth: so Jackson cam win it back Moderator: what parts of Native American culture have been sold back to Native Americans Moderator: and it has to do with the way that whites‚Ķ in fact any dominant culture‚Ķ takes the indigenous culture and repackages it to send it back to that culture Moderator: there is a selling of that Moderator: culture Moderator: in what ways has mainstream American culture SOLD Native American culture Moderator: where would people in America see Native American culture Moderator: as an amusement for example Moderator: as something they would buy Louise: they have powwows here Jennifer: right they had no respect to their cultures Louise: at the mall they have stores with indian merchandise Moderator: yes Louise Moderator: and Jennifer, this is where finding a resource that would be a specific thing would be a great way to support that Moderator: as you can see, the regalia is symbolic for the culture that the character is claiming is dying away‚Ķ he was regaining of that regalia in some ways gives him an identity‚Ķ remember that at the beginning of the story, he felt that he was becoming invisible and at the end, wearing regalia he is dancing and he said everyone could see him‚Ķ was visible again Louise: knotts Berry farm has a whole show and area with native American events Moderator: there you go Moderator: using symbolism helps the story get to the deeper elements of this\ painter 1: couldnt it also be said that the regalia is allowing him to in a sense reconnect with the family he has drifted from since his grandmother's death Moderator: a theme is the overriding idea or concept of a work. It is the point of the work. It is repeated over and over throughout the story in order to reinforce the notion that the author is presenting. While it is not a truth, but rather the author's perception or observation of the world, it is the reason for creating the work Moderator: absolutely painter Moderator: for him it symbolizes his Indianness Moderator: his sense of who he iss..... who he was Moderator: who he should be Moderator: who he wants to be Moderator: in fact, if we look at all the characters he came across, some of which had nothing to do with him finding his regalia‚Ķ for sample the Aleuts, what do they all have in common with Jackson and the regalia Louise: they too are lost Louise: looking for there way home Elizabeth: cant find their way back home Moderator: very good‚Ķ what about honey boy Jennifer: looking for their stolen culture Moderator: Jennifer, you would have to link stolen culture equals long way from home in order for that to work Louise: lol he is confused Moderator: just the same way that Louisa Elizabeth would have to identify HOME and LOST as being both literal as well as symbolic of their loss of culture‚Ķ culture being a home of sorts Moderator: because he does not have what Elizabeth: honey boy doesnt know what he is.he loves men & women Moderator: what does Honey boy have in common with Jackson Moderator: this is where symbolism brings everything together‚Ķ otherwise, his encounter with these two people at the bar seems to have nothing to do with his regalia painter 1: sorry professor have to go .....pizza delivery's here :) Moderator: painter‚Ķ no anchovies on mine please Moderator: got a hot date later Louise: lol Jennifer: lol painter 1: lol bye Louise: i'm not sure Moderator: what is Jackson missing in a larger sense Moderator: what is Honey boy missing in a larger sense Moderator: single word Jennifer: culture Elizabeth: identity? Jennifer: family Moderator: thank you Elizabeth Moderator: thoney boy does not know who he is Louise: oh lol so obvious Moderator: likewise, Jackson, because he does not feel in touch with his culture, also does not know who he is Moderator: sometimes it is the obvious we are going for Louise Moderator: it's what the author wants you to understand Louise: I think I over think everything and end up confusing myself lol Jennifer: lol me too Moderator: don't think too hard‚Ķ Moderator: go for what the author is telling Moderator: what the authors showing Moderator: if you look at the weather Moderator: in the story, very often it is symbolic Moderator: what is the weather when Jackson is being evicted from the bar Louise: cold Elizabeth: 2 in the morning. chilly Moderator: yes Moderator: what is his world like Moderator: other way was also dark Moderator: by the way, it was also dark Moderator: in what way is his world cold and dark at that moment Louise: he was sad and lonely Jennifer: yea he was nearly blind w alochol Moderator: very good Moderator: you see how the author is using the weather to give us an internal barometer of the characters feelings Moderator: symbolically Jennifer: yup Louise: yes Elizabeth: yes Moderator: what is the weather for the three Aleuts Louise: lol gloomy Jennifer: no sun by the water Elizabeth: windy Elizabeth: close to the ocean Moderator: gloomy windy Moderator: very good Moderator: what is their outlook Moderator: what does wind represent Louise: the passing of time? Louise: they were depressed Elizabeth: sadness Moderator: what does wind represent Moderator: think of the opposite of windy Louise: calm? Moderator: and what is the opposite of calm Moderator: not weatherwise Moderator: but emotion wise Elizabeth: stressed? Louise: spastic lol Moderator: hahaha Jennifer: hectic Moderator: turbulent? Moderator: Good answer Jennifer Moderator: were looking for the movement that wind implies Moderator: were looking for the disorganization‚Ķ the turbulence‚Ķ the lack of calm and the lack of peace Elizabeth: ok Jennifer: got it Moderator: by having a windy scene, it shows that these people are not at peace with themselves Moderator: you see how symbolism works Elizabeth: yes Jennifer: yu[ Jennifer: yup Louise: yeah I think lol Moderator: the story as you read is Shiloh Moderator: hahah remember? Moderator: What were looking for is the meaning within the characters Moderator: and the actions Moderator: what does the guy do for a living Louise: truck driver Elizabeth: he used to drive a truck Jennifer: until he hurt his leg Louise: and started bugging his wife lol Moderator: what is the nature of a truck driver Moderator: who generally drives a truck Moderator: kind of person is associated with driving a truck, whether it is true or not Louise: men Moderator: very good Louise Elizabeth: guys Moderator: yes Elizabeth Louise: big burley men lol Moderator: hahaha Jennifer: lol Moderator: now don't get crazy on me Louise: its getting late sorry Moderator: what does that mean for a MAN to lose a job Louise: its a huge blow to the ego Elizabeth: failure as a provider or man Louise: makes them feel worthless Jennifer: he has nothing to do, he is a failure in his eyes Moderator: very good Moderator: why a truck driver as opposed to a computer operator Moderator: or a male nurse Moderator: they do this in the symbolic context‚Ķ Moderator: how are we supposed to feel about this guy Elizabeth: sorry Elizabeth: Professor i have to go and feed my little one Louise: like it was the only thing he knew how to do Louise: he was not educated Moderator: very good Louise Moderator: good lord, look at the time Louise: lol Moderator: how about we continue this next week Elizabeth: ok Moderator: and play with some more symbolism Louise: sounds good see you then Moderator: in the meantime, read every day use and start looking for symbols and conflict for the test Elizabeth: good night everyone Moderator: get your paper into me Moderator: a careless bit Jennifer: okie dokie Moderator: check your e-mail by the way Moderator: by Jennifer Moderator: by Louise Louise: I am going to change the whole thing I did it wrong lol Louise: bye everyone Jennifer: bye everyone have a good night Moderator: poof