You have just entered room "engcitguy Chat18." DomiChristi has entered the room. engcitguy: hey now xssquared has entered the room. engcitguy: hey now DomiChristi: Hello xssquared: wud up? engcitguy: have you both taken the test? xssquared: yes. engcitguy: domi? DomiChristi: yes, on wed. Seruhanne421 has entered the room. Seruhanne421: hi engcitguy: anne, have you taken the test? Seruhanne421: yep engcitguy: taken the test? engcitguy: cool engcitguy: lets get to answers then DomiChristi: I was really concerned about my penmanship, it sucks and I can't write neatly to save my life. Or grade. engcitguy: penmanship does not count as long as i can read it DomiChristi: cool. xssquared: i really didn't realize how short 50 minutes can be when you need every single minute. engcitguy: here are some basic things engcitguy: every essay to me, whether a test or a paper, must have a clear introductory paragraph engcitguy: that introductory paragraph only has two items: a background statement and thesis engcitguy: the background statement in a class like this is usually a definition of the literary term that you are discussing engcitguy: in this case, what would you define? Seruhanne421: characterization engcitguy: more specifically... xssquared: round or flat characters Seruhanne421: flat and round engcitguy: yes DomiChristi: +were they round or flat engcitguy: a flat character is... engcitguy: a round character is... DomiChristi: not evolving engcitguy: you may even want to quote the book directly, giving credit to the editor xssquared: A flat character is one who does not undergo any sort of change engcitguy: domi, to whether they are round or flat comes engcitguy: in the thesis statement xssquared: eng-can we quote our editor in our papers or would that be considered a secondary source engcitguy: which is the other half of the introductory paragraph engcitguy: I expect you to give arp credit when you use his words engcitguy: and yes it is a secondary source DomiChristi: I missed my mark on the test then, but now I have a clearer view. xssquared: but, for instance, when we just did our first paper, we weren't allowed to use a secondary source, could we have used it? engcitguy: the thesis statement basically will have the following information: author's name, title of the work, and your point engcitguy: x, when I say you cannot use a secondary source, what I'm referring to is using an outside source on a test. I expect that for all the tests except for the final, you will refer to arp as necessary engcitguy: on the final, however, you will not have your book with you, so you may not refer to Arp directly xssquared: okay. thanks engcitguy: no problem engcitguy: so essentially, what would the thesis statement be for this test xssquared: In the short story, "The Bride Comes to Yellow Sky," the author, Stephen Crane uses two round characters to bring his story to life. xssquared: Oh, I am sorry, should I have stated which characters? engcitguy: x engcitguy: very good engcitguy: not necessarily, because I would see them in your paragraphs in the body engcitguy: what's more important, is that your thesis is concise and clear and does not contain any detail engcitguy: that's why it is good DomiChristi: In steven cranes "The Bride comes to Yellow Sky", we will analize flat verses round charactors. DomiChristi: I wasn't specific enough. engcitguy: domi, in this case I would prefer a more direct answer as to whether you think the characters are round or flat or both engcitguy: because that is what I asked in the question engcitguy: your correct engcitguy: the conclusion is also an important aspect of an essay engcitguy: it and your essay. It does not in the story. Do not tell me about the conclusion of story in the conclusion to your essay engcitguy: it does not end story engcitguy: so, what I do want is a summary of your point, which, is essentially, the reiteration of your thesis engcitguy: simply, restated DomiChristi: ok engcitguy: add to that a sentence that is a projection... a statement that essentially says the value that, in this case, round and flat characters have on the story engcitguy: and that is it for the conclusion. No details. No examples engcitguy: format wise, I've been looking for three paragraphs between the introduction and the conclusion... engcitguy: so let's get to the details. engcitguy: Potter: round or flat Seruhanne421: round xssquared: round DomiChristi: flat with shades of round. engcitguy: I guess I should have said engcitguy: and support your answer immediately. Let's start with round engcitguy: how is he round xssquared: do you want text too? engcitguy: if you like, but in chat it is not necessary... engcitguy: but it always helps xssquared: okay...well, potter is round because he is having an internal conflict with himself... Seruhanne421: he has a conflict about bringing his new bride to Yellow Sky to meet the people of the town, because he feels that he betrayed them DomiChristi: He was your traditional "good marshal", but at the end he did something out of character by not fighting scratchy, and not including the towns people in his choice about marriage xssquared: he is fighting with his duty to his town and with his need to fulfill his happiness which is being married. STANG4BART has entered the room. engcitguy: Bart, did you take the test STANG4BART: yup xssquared: He actually really enjoys being married, but he knows what are the consequences STANG4BART: friday engcitguy: we are discussing why Potter is round STANG4BART: all right engcitguy: domi, did he have a choice about fighting or not fighting scratchy Wilson at the end the story STANG4BART: he did have a choice? xssquared: the conflict starts at the beginning of the story and then progressively he starts to choose being married over caring so much about what the town will think. He decided to not fight with scratchy at the end because he was giving his duty to his wife rather than to the town. DomiChristi: If I remember correctly, he told scratchy that he didn't have a gun, but I think he did have a choice and he chose not too. engcitguy: folks, according to the story, could he have fought scratchy Wilson at that point if he wanted to? Seruhanne421: no he didn't have a gun STANG4BART: without a gun? engcitguy: exactly my point bart, and anne engcitguy: so did he really show a change at the end of story engcitguy: does Potter change at all during story Seruhanne421: he didn't think twice about telling Scratchy about his wife, but he hadn't planned on that engcitguy: yes or no engcitguy: anne, did he really have any choice engcitguy: which brings me back to X's comment about marriage engcitguy: what was his conflict over the marriage specifically DomiChristi: He could have hit him even though he didn't have a gun, or try to get it away from him. engcitguy: domi STANG4BART: his attitude changed on the ride to town, he was nervous over the impact he would have engcitguy: Bart be specific STANG4BART: the fact he didn't tell anyone about his marriage would make waves STANG4BART: im just not sure how xssquared: that he would not be forgiven by the people. Seruhanne421: he married a girl from another town and didn't include anyone from Yellow Sky in his decision engcitguy: domi, if a drunken man is pointing a 6 shooter at your chest, are you going to hit him...could you even get close enough engcitguy: let's stick to what is in the story. The author tells us specifically what is bothering Potter when he's sitting on the train. DomiChristi: no. xssquared: He felt out of control that he did something so quick and wasn't level headed about the whole thing. The fact that he got so swept away in San Antonio. engcitguy: 1. is Potter happy with his wife? show me xssquared: "We are due in Yellow Sky at 3:42," he said, looking tenderly into her eyes. (402) engcitguy: 2. what bothers him about the town? Think in terms of what the author tells us. Is he allowed to Marry who he wants, according to the author? If so, why does he feel he is in the wrong engcitguy: thanks x engcitguy: so is he happy with his wife engcitguy: is he glad he married her? engcitguy: yes or no Seruhanne421: yes engcitguy: correct engcitguy: the author tells us several times they are happy engcitguy: in fact, they are so blissful, they don't even realize they are being picked on by the Porters, a fact that also is likely based on the likelihood that Potter has never been on a train before xssquared: yes he is happy. the town-"Of course, people in Yellow Sky married as it pleased them, in accordance with a general custom; but such was Potter's thought of his duty to his friends, or their idea of his duty, or of an unspoken form which does not control men in these matters, that he felt was heinous. (403) engcitguy: explain what that means square engcitguy: what is his duty engcitguy: what crime has he committed in getting married engcitguy: think of this in terms of the stereo typical late 1800s Western sheriff and his responsibility to his community xssquared: It means that the town doesn't believe that he should ever get married even though they can marry who he pleases. He is thought of as the marshal and only that...not one that has a personal life...one that is supposed to be there for them always. xssquared: He needed to be available 24/7 to protect them. engcitguy: Square... think about it for a second. Is it How the town really feels, or is it how Potter perceives his own responsibility engcitguy: what happens to a sheriff or Marshall if he gets married engcitguy: why would that be a bad thing xssquared: He loses his job? engcitguy: no DomiChristi: He may not take as many chances because he is a family man engcitguy: domi STANG4BART: he gets a pastime besides engcitguy: explained STANG4BART: besides the town marshal duties engcitguy: Bart, what do you mean by that Seruhanne421: the town will not be his first priority anymore, because he has a family to take care of STANG4BART: he spends time in his house instead of keeping the peace xssquared: He may second guess himself when fighting because he actually has something to live for. He could second guess himself. xssquared: Oh, whoops, I typed that twice. xssquared: He won't take as many risks. engcitguy: anne, Bart, good answers engcitguy: square, better answer engcitguy: why is his marriage heinous in his eyes xssquared: I was wondering what that second language was. engcitguy: think in terms of marriage engcitguy: hehehe engcitguy: it gets worse Wago Tom has entered the room. STANG4BART: he sees the marriage as a betrayal of trust, or that the marriage means he wants more time to enjoy himself STANG4BART: that seems heinous to himself xssquared: "sharp impulse." he has never not been level headed. xssquared: Lovely english, huh? xssquared: my double negative. hee engcitguy: bart, the first part of your answer is correct ; the second part is not quite there engcitguy: how did he betray the town engcitguy: by getting married engcitguy: ? Seruhanne421: he married a girl from another town engcitguy: in his own mind of course STANG4BART: by not letting them know what he was doing before he did it STANG4BART: or something like that engcitguy: anne, that is not it Seruhanne421: and didn't include them on the decision engcitguy: Bart not quite engcitguy: anne, why would they need to be in on the decision according to his way of thinking Wago Tom: he wouldn't react the same now that he was married engcitguy: yes Tom engcitguy: but again, folks, think in terms of marriage engcitguy: why is a marriage to a woman a betrayal of the town engcitguy: 5 engcitguy: 4 engcitguy: 3 xssquared: You are too funny. engcitguy: 2 STANG4BART: he's married to the town Seruhanne421: It's sort of like a family, where I would want my parents consent if I was getting married, he wants the towns consent Wago Tom: she may not like the town or they may not like her engcitguy: Bart wins the prize STANG4BART: score! xssquared: Yipppppppppeeeeeeeeee engcitguy: as the author pointed out, people in yellow sky married as they liked STANG4BART: ahh but he was previously committed engcitguy: what he feels as that leaden weight is based on his duty engcitguy: correct engcitguy: which really gets us back to a real simple question engcitguy: does Potter have a conflict... an internal conflict xssquared: yes STANG4BART: yes Seruhanne421: yes engcitguy: does he feel two conflicting ways about the same thing Wago Tom: yes an internal conflict Seruhanne421: yes engcitguy: so, round or flat xssquared: yes STANG4BART: round xssquared: round Seruhanne421: round Wago Tom: round engcitguy: does he exhibit any flat characteristics...and where do we see them Seruhanne421: yes he is a stock character, the stereotypical town sheriff Wago Tom: stereotyped strong silent marshal of the old west YankGRL has entered the room. engcitguy: where do we see this enacted? YankGRL: what's the subject? DomiChristi: Flat in his description of town sheriff engcitguy: bride comes yellow sky Wago Tom: confrontation with wilson STANG4BART: he faces the bad guy with a straight face xssquared: you were right...it does get worse YankGRL: yes engcitguy: yes xssquared: Oh, I see........ engcitguy: essentially, so is Potter round or flat.... xssquared: hmmmmmm... engcitguy: or both Seruhanne421: both engcitguy: of course xssquared: both. DomiChristi: I stand by both. xssquared: i failed. xssquared: heeee STANG4BART: lol engcitguy: let's talk about Wilson STANG4BART: good ole scratchy engcitguy: round or flat, STANG4BART: flat engcitguy: why Wago Tom: round YankGRL: round engcitguy: be specific engcitguy: start with flat DomiChristi: Both, again STANG4BART: drunken rampage shootin up the town engcitguy: ahh, domi, playing the odds Wago Tom: conflict, chivalry vs. bad guy engcitguy: Bart, is Wilson's alcohol experience around his or flatness DomiChristi: He was the "town gunslinger that everyone is scared of YankGRL: he can be summed up easily - one sentence - he is quiet until he gets drunk then looks for fight engcitguy: hold on Tom, let's take c/o flat first engcitguy: yes girl engcitguy: yes domi engcitguy: yes Bart YankGRL: actually he is like everyone, very typical of society engcitguy: careful girl engcitguy: are real people round or flat engcitguy: seriously YankGRL: her - being the bride? both engcitguy: are real people round or flat YankGRL: both Wago Tom: round engcitguy: why Tom xssquared: both STANG4BART: flatness...he doesn't have depth to his character. gets drunk ends up confused goes home engcitguy: why Tom engcitguy: yes Bart Wago Tom: conflicts, everyone has them engcitguy: so does he change at the end of a story Bart Seruhanne421: everyone changes too engcitguy: exactly, tom and anne xssquared: people become stereotypical according to the environment they live in but they all have their own internal conflicts and issues that they are dealing with. engcitguy: real people are round engcitguy: who sees them as stereotypical engcitguy: who sees them as flat engcitguy: and is that accurate perspective Wago Tom: stereotypical STANG4BART: no maybe he just loses his buzz, he doesn't change his viewpoint necessarily he just reverts back to normal citizen waiting to get drunk again YankGRL: he plays a game with potter - he needs potter engcitguy: Bart, this is important. Many people contend that Wilson backed off for one of two reasons engcitguy: the first reason stated is that wilson realized a woman was there, and did not want to hurt Potter in the presence of his wife engcitguy: can that be true according to what the story said YankGRL: backed off because he has respect for marriage? engcitguy: exactly... is that true Wago Tom: yes engcitguy: read the last paragraph of the story for the answer engcitguy: read carefully, tom DomiChristi: I think the game had different rules now and he didn't know how to deal with it. I think he was in fact sad about it ending. STANG4BART: he was a product of confusion engcitguy: did it wilson back off because a woman was there and he didn't want to do something to offend her? Wago Tom: i agree with domi STANG4BART: no he wasn't used to seeing potter with a woman YankGRL: yes Wago Tom: respect for marriage engcitguy: which gets me back to my question: did will send back off because he was concerned about a woman's feelings or he had respect for marriage engcitguy: did Wilson back off because he was concerned about a woman's feelings or he had respect for marriage YankGRL: the story last paragraph states "he was not a student of chivalry?" Wago Tom: respect and her presence engcitguy: which means what girl YankGRL: both engcitguy: actually girl, it means engcitguy: NEITHER STANG4BART: yes YankGRL: OH STANG4BART: i knew i wasnt crazy Wago Tom: what STANG4BART: trick question Wago Tom: please explain engcitguy: "not a student of chivalry" means that he did not do this because it was the right thing to do engcitguy: he walked away because he was... read the rest of that paragraph engcitguy: the author is telling a specifically why he walked away, and the author also tells us that are assumptions about why he may have walked away are probably wrong Wago Tom: 0 Wago Tom: . Wago Tom: 0 YankGRL: he didn't know how to proceed - so he backed off - foreign condition Wago Tom: oops xssquared: it was merely that in the presence of this foreign condition he was a simple child of the earlier plains engcitguy: in other words, the author is telling a specifically that Wilson's decision not to fight is not based on the idea that it would be against society's rules to hurt Potter or his wife xssquared: oops, that was a quote. engcitguy: what does that mean square engcitguy: why did he walked away STANG4BART: he didnt know how to respond Seruhanne421: it was a "foreign condition" engcitguy: what was the foreign condition STANG4BART: the bride YankGRL: marriage engcitguy: in order to understand this, we have to understand what scratchy Wilson really was engcitguy: describe Wilson physically engcitguy: what is he wearing DomiChristi: A lonely bachelor too. engcitguy: how does he act Seruhanne421: a flannel STANG4BART: ahh gotta go mom needs the phone STANG4BART has left the room. engcitguy: bachelor implies something, domi xssquared: Was it because he regressed back to when he was a child and it reminded him of his mother? Am I way off? engcitguy: flannel what, anne DomiChristi: no one to take care of or care about him engcitguy: made where engcitguy: you are way off, square YankGRL: he was from the old west - last of an old gang - quiet until drinking - then boisterous - swinging guns - yelling xssquared: okay...just a try engcitguy: really engcitguy: this is not that deep Seruhanne421: shirt, made by a Jewish woman in New York YankGRL: shirt made by jewish women in the east Wago Tom: maroon shirt flannel from new york xssquared: he is poor, she is rich engcitguy: in fact, square, you say he regressed xssquared: oh i take that back...from a high society town xssquared: she is not rich Wago Tom: rich engcitguy: girl, tom, what does that tell us about his clothing DomiChristi: Shes just a seamstress engcitguy: folks, in the late 1800s if you're a Jewish woman working making clothing, in fact, it today you were a seamstress making clothing, or you rich Wago Tom: dresses for show YankGRL: that they were made by women in a large city - different than where is he from engcitguy: tyes... engcitguy: yes engcitguy: what about his shoes Wago Tom: he likes fancy clothing Wago Tom: flashy engcitguy: tom, what is that tell us about him YankGRL: the shirt was a loud color - he wanted to be seen engcitguy: tell me about his boots Wago Tom: he craves attention YankGRL: he wants attention engcitguy: show me where else he wants attention xssquared: He wishes he could be like that. Be upper class engcitguy: Square, it doesn't even cross his mind YankGRL: his boots had red tops engcitguy: like engcitguy: .... engcitguy: what does the author tell us Wago Tom: the streets of yellow sky, the saloon DomiChristi: By shooting up the town and thus drawing attention to himself. Like a bad little boy misbehaving. engcitguy: is he a good shot? engcitguy: domi...show me where else he is a little boy Seruhanne421: yep YankGRL: the boots were the type worn by kids for sledding Wago Tom: a very good shot engcitguy: give me specifics engcitguy: what did he do when he missed the piece of paper from 100 paces engcitguy: could he have killed the dog if he wanted to Seruhanne421: yep engcitguy: could he had killed Potter if he wanted to YankGRL: yes Seruhanne421: yep engcitguy: what did he do when he missed the paper DomiChristi: The down trodden way he walks away when the game was over and he had no one to play with anymore engcitguy: yes domi engcitguy: what else Wago Tom: he walks away and heads for potter place engcitguy: folks, does he dress like a man in the west.... YankGRL: he swore and walked away engcitguy: or... xssquared: "His feet made funnel shaped tracks in the heavy sand." engcitguy: better answer girl Wago Tom: no he does not engcitguy: square that is at the end engcitguy: what does he dress like Tom xssquared: I know but you asked for some more examples of when he was like a child YankGRL: man of west - no DomiChristi: like someone had to dress him engcitguy: a real cowboy... xssquared: he walks away like a child engcitguy: your correct square Wago Tom: a city slicker engcitguy: not exactly, tom YankGRL: a child - yeh your right - he even dressed like a child, acted like a child xssquared: It's all a game. engcitguy: what is the relationship between Potter and Wilson Wago Tom: a child in man's body YankGRL: father and son xssquared: cops and robbers engcitguy: why did Wilson not shoot Potter Wago Tom: adversaries engcitguy: not father and son girl engcitguy: try again Seruhanne421: if he shot potter than he wouldn't be there for him to fight with anymore DomiChristi: antagonist and, I forget the other name engcitguy: because this is why the marriage bummed him out. YankGRL: he plays this game with him all the time - a sport and fun - he needs potter YankGRL: friend engcitguy: and what does the marriage tell him YankGRL: that his friend will no longer be able to play engcitguy: what does he say to potter DomiChristi: The game is over Wago Tom: that potter can't play anymore engcitguy: what does potter say to him Wago Tom: the game's over if you say so Seruhanne421: It's over if you say so engcitguy: is potter willing to continue the game YankGRL: that he didn't start the trouble DomiChristi: He said "NO!" like a child refusing to listen to something he doesn't want to hear engcitguy: in the context of the game girl engcitguy: good point, domi engcitguy: and when he realizes that it is real.... Wago Tom: he won't turn away from trouble but he won't look for it either engcitguy: is Potter willing to continue the game Wago Tom: no engcitguy: read carefully YankGRL: yes - it is Scratchy that calls it off engcitguy: explain girl engcitguy: why did scratchy call it off YankGRL: potter says "if you say so scratchy" Seruhanne421: Scratchy calls it off, because he realizes that Potter isn't going to fight him engcitguy: in fact, Potter says "if I 'd known that there was any galoots like you.." Wago Tom: potter will continue, if he had know any galoots were prowling around he would have worn a gun YankGRL: because of the women - he feels that he can't play the game with her there - the rules have changed engcitguy: yes engcitguy: girl not quite engcitguy: what happened to potter's image in Wilson's eyes when he got married engcitguy: heheh DomiChristi: He was a grownup engcitguy: what did Potter become engcitguy: exactly Wago Tom: he has grown up engcitguy: yes engcitguy: did Potter really change Wago Tom: become responsible engcitguy: he's always been sheriff Wago Tom: but a bachelor Seruhanne421: but now he is a husband engcitguy: did Potter really change engcitguy: or did Wilson's image of Potter change YankGRL: he was not a playmate anymore - he wasn't scratchy sole friend Seruhanne421: Wilson's image of Potter changed Wago Tom: yes he has shared his feeling with another person YankGRL: yes Seruhanne421: Potter has always been a grownup Scratchy just didn't think of him in that way engcitguy: Wilson thinks like a child...he wouldn't know about sharing feelings with another person YankGRL: wilson's of potter changed engcitguy: yes girl engcitguy: yes anne engcitguy: Potter goes to great lengths to explain to Wilson that he indeed has not changed engcitguy: and offers to continue the game engcitguy: as he always has engcitguy: but it is ruined for Wilson Wago Tom: he knows he has to share potter with someone else engcitguy: and since Wilson cannot change engcitguy: he walks away engcitguy: tom, it's not that deep Wago Tom: i tried engcitguy: it simply is that Wilson analyses potter as a grown-up YankGRL: why can't wilson change? YankGRL: he changed is style of dress engcitguy: because he is a simple child of a earlier time engcitguy: to paraphrase the story engcitguy: he is dressed away a child would dress like a cowboy Wago Tom: perhaps without the alcohol he acts grown up engcitguy: perhaps YankGRL: okay - i see - the clothes are really only for show engcitguy: but then there's no guns, no game engcitguy: what he's not drunk engcitguy: in this case, what would have happened to our expectation of the story if we had known that water and Wilson were essentially friends engcitguy: Potter and Wilson DomiChristi: She really changed a whole town; turned it upside down. Just one plain woman. engcitguy: what would happen to the suspense engcitguy: domi engcitguy: she didn't do anything engcitguy: she just showed it will send what Potter already was YankGRL: it's all the game for wilson....the suspense would have been less engcitguy: she just showed Wilson what Potter already was engcitguy: yes girl engcitguy: in fact, would we have felt any fear for Jack Potter and his bride Seruhanne421: no DomiChristi: I did engcitguy: Wilson actually has some complexity. He is struggling with a changing world, and he is resisting that change. engcitguy: domi engcitguy: you are supposed to. The author kept Information from you on purpose engcitguy: otherwise, there would have been no surprise, no suspense engcitguy: this is where we get to the theme engcitguy: what has happened to Wilson's world? Seruhanne421: changed Wago Tom: wilson was trying to hold onto the outlaw ways while society was moving forward engcitguy: how did he deal with it engcitguy: when was the story written Seruhanne421: he walked away from it engcitguy: what was happening at the time DomiChristi: It's over his head. Like me with computers Wago Tom: 1890,s engcitguy: what was about to happen to the world, to the western portion of the United States Wago Tom: the country was becoming more settled, the ways of the east were filtering out west engcitguy: yes engcitguy: what did the bride represent YankGRL: the story was written in 1890's xssquared: east Seruhanne421: East spreading west Wago Tom: family values engcitguy: think more broadly xssquared: change engcitguy: what kind of change Seruhanne421: integrating east and west engcitguy: what was the west changing to DomiChristi: The industrial age was approaching xssquared: industrialization engcitguy: thank you, domi YankGRL: modern ways - cities engcitguy: yes engcitguy: where else do we see the modernization in this story Wago Tom: the industrial age had started ten to fifteen earlier xssquared: train Seruhanne421: the train YankGRL: yes - the train engcitguy: what does Potter think about when the gun is pointed at his chest engcitguy: tom, yes xssquared: the interior of the train engcitguy: what does the train represent xssquared: his new life engcitguy: bigger than that Wago Tom: a new way of life hope for the future engcitguy: better answer Tom YankGRL: the fast pace of the world - moving in a new direction Wago Tom: a place to raise a family engcitguy: good answer girl DomiChristi: I wish you all a wonderful evening, I have to help my daughter, (or pretend to help), with her math. Till next week. engcitguy: THEME is the overriding and idea or concept within this story. It is the primary reason that authors write. the THEME will be reflected in all of the major aspects of story, including conflict, character, and setting engcitguy: that's better engcitguy: by edomi Wago Tom: makes sense theme DomiChristi has left the room. engcitguy: what is the theme in yellow sky... engcitguy: a few rules for theme engcitguy: it has to be a complete sentence engcitguy: it is not an order, like do this or do that. It is but observation about human behavior engcitguy: it is not question. It is the answer to the question engcitguy: it is reflected in the story, but that the itself is not limited to the story, so therefore you would not mention any specifics from story. Instead he would broadened the point out to include real life engcitguy: for instance, in most dangerous game, the name is not "survival" engcitguy: the theme is based on a what survival is or what causes us to do engcitguy: would anybody like to take a shot on creating a theme for most dangerous game engcitguy: what anybody like to take a shot at creating a theme for once upon a time Wago Tom: self preservation will over come most obstacles engcitguy: please, not all at once.... engcitguy: very good tom Seruhanne421: The fittest will survive. xssquared: Sorry..I was trying to review all that you said before. engcitguy: what else we come up with engcitguy: nice, anne, but try to avoid anything that sounds like a cliche engcitguy: and you could expand your theme by saying that the fittest will survive in spite of... Wago Tom: the human prey is not an easy target YankGRL: once upon a time - fear of the unknown is not always a bad thing. Social change can cause ways for mankind to survive, even if detrimental. Wago Tom: the human target is not an easy prey YankGRL: Not very good... engcitguy: tom, that seems a little narrow.. engcitguy: does that add insight to the human existence? engcitguy: girl, i liked the second one Seruhanne421: Fear is created by uncertainty, and prejudice. engcitguy: good anne Wago Tom: ingenuity and fear help to make the human animal a very dangerous and cunning prey engcitguy: notice that good themes are universal, and also do not mention any specifics from the story engcitguy: theoretically, a theme is designed to add insight into the human condition YankGRL: before i sign out to do math - group discussion 1 is due friday 9/15? and chat is always Tues 7-9pm? engcitguy: yes girl engcitguy: yes to both Wago Tom: goodbye, i must take my leave now YankGRL: thanks and goodnight xssquared: Running from your fears only helps it catch up to you faster. engcitguy: good discussion folks Wago Tom has left the room. YankGRL has left the room. engcitguy: your next paper will be a thematic discussion of either a worn path or everyday use engcitguy: next week we will discuss the theme in the context of the two very short stories from this week engcitguy: L.A. love story engcitguy: and the father engcitguy: and that we will apply theme to everyday use engcitguy: the tests are in the testing center. Please pick them up Seruhanne421: already did xssquared: okay engcitguy: papers are being graded right now. Pick them up and rewrite them engcitguy: tests do not get rewritten. Papers do engcitguy: you have one week to redo your paper for better grade Seruhanne421: I had trouble writing that paper xssquared: if we don't? engcitguy: they will be in the testing center by tomorrow afternoon engcitguy: then you get the grade I gave you engcitguy: and I have one less paper to grade engcitguy: not that I don't enjoy them thoroughly xssquared: Okay...so it's kind of our choice, not a required thing. Just wondering to make sure. engcitguy: any questions engcitguy: it is your choice Seruhanne421: yeah Seruhanne421: I'm just not sure what to ask engcitguy: go-ahead engcitguy: let me ask you a question Seruhanne421: okay engcitguy: what would be a good theme for bride comes to yellow sky engcitguy: it will help you get started on your paper Seruhanne421: You can't run away from change Seruhanne421: no that's not very good engcitguy: anne engcitguy: not bad xssquared: In a changing world, some will rise to the occasion and some get left behind. engcitguy: nice squared xssquared: tomorrow? Seruhanne421: that is a good theme engcitguy: yes square Seruhanne421: I have never been good at this stuff Seruhanne421: English is my worst subject engcitguy: you will get plenty of practice here, anne engcitguy: anything else? Seruhanne421: I had a lot of trouble putting everything together for my paper Seruhanne421: I had lots of ideas but I just didn't know how to make it all fit together xssquared: if i fax it to you, will that be a bad way of getting it to you as I work during the day or I can have my husband drop it off at 1:00 xssquared: 12:00-1:00 he could do it. engcitguy: have him drop at 1 in ed224,...i will sign it and he can submit it then engcitguy: before 1 in vt 208 engcitguy: after 1 in lb 304 engcitguy: forget ed224 engcitguy: you will redo your paper, anne, when you see my comments engcitguy: so pick them up Seruhanne421: okay xssquared: Okay, thank you. I really appreciate it. xssquared: I'll see you. engcitguy: o.k. square engcitguy: take care xssquared: you too. xssquared has left the room. engcitguy: anything else anne? Seruhanne421: no I guess not engcitguy: ok engcitguy: get your paper back and you will have a focus Seruhanne421: I hope so engcitguy: ill see you next week Seruhanne421: ok bye engcitguy: bye anne engcitguy: poof