Yahoo! Messenger: Conference stichure-65638 started.
Yahoo! Messenger: bob_at18 has joined the conference.
Yahoo! Messenger: cece5990 has joined the conference.
stichure: hey now
bob_at18: hey
cece5990: hi
stichure: any q's before we get started?
bob_at18: ackward sielence
bob_at18: like a first date
bob_at18: hehe
bob_at18: one ?
stichure: we are finishing worn path and intriducing irony
Yahoo! Messenger: godswiph has joined the conference.
Yahoo! Messenger: lilvaldivia has joined the conference.
stichure: ok..any one else still not here?
lilvaldivia: hello
bob_at18: bck
stichure: hey lil
jillsportzmom: lol
stichure: any other questiosn or commenst before we finish dissection of welty
godswiph: nah
godswiph: neh
bob_at18: nada
godswiph: nope
godswiph: nizeron
godswiph: neeko
jillsportzmom: no
bob_at18: zero, zip, nada
stichure: now I am learning soemthing new, god
stichure: ok
stichure: where did we leave off...
stichure: plants?
bob_at18: we finished animals.....
stichure: mostly, bopb
stichure: but we didnt really
stichure: but l;ets get soem plant stuff
stichure: who had plants
cece5990: i did
cece5990: I think I had plants not sure about trees?
stichure: ok
stichure: we wuill start there
cece5990: Thicket - a dense or tangled growth of small trees or bushes. page 175
stichure: go ahead
stichure: laty one on us
stichure: lay
stichure: what is the contxt within teh story
stichure: what is happening and what is teh symbolism
stichure: literal vs figurative
bob_at18: Her fingers were busy and intent, but her skirts were full and long, so that before she could pull them free in one place they were caught in another. It was not
possible to allow the dress to tear. "I in the thorny bush," she said. "Thorns, you doing your appointed work. Never want to let folks pass, no sir. Old eyes thought you was a pretty
little green bush."
bob_at18: i think thats the right one....
stichure: so..what is happening
stichure: there
stichure: what is she in conflict with
bob_at18: the bush\
bob_at18: it has snagged her dress, and she has a hard time getting it off
jillsportzmom: she need to pass but doesnt want to tear her dress...needs to be presentable in town
stichure: ok..now make this relevant to her in a larger sense
stichure: apply to her life
bob_at18: she knws that the bush is doing its "job", but wants to continue on her journey
stichure: who arethe thorny bushes who won't let folks pass
stichure: justlike...
bob_at18: racists
stichure: does she blame teh bush
jillsportzmom: whites
bob_at18: whites
stichure: yes
bob_at18: yes, but it is doing what it is supposed to do
stichure: in what way, bob
bob_at18: keeping people from not passing
stichure: how is that it's a[ppointed duty
stichure: who appouinted the bush /peopel
bob_at18: ""Thorns, you doing your appointed work. Never want to let folks pass, no sir."
stichure: took teh words right outa welty's moputh
stichure: so whio appointed tegh peoepel
stichure: who has appointed them
stichure: look at teh context
stichure: old bush or new bush
cece5990: old.
bob_at18: old
godswiph: looking...
jillsportzmom: old
godswiph: the bush is disguised under beauty... to her
bob_at18: pretty little green bush
stichure: Old eyes thought you was a pretty little green bush."
stichure: reeevaluate
jillsportzmom: thought you were a friend but was a foe
stichure: old or young
stichure: little
stichure: green
bob_at18: young,
jillsportzmom: young
bob_at18: healthy
stichure: so
jillsportzmom: new to the path
stichure: what does jackson recognize about human nature
bob_at18: young and innocent, turns out to be young and a foe
stichure: aploly to teh idea that thsi symbolizes people
stichure: who appointed teh young bush to be a deterent to old black folks?
jillsportzmom: the new generation is as harsh as the old one
stichure: why jill
stichure: and why would she think differently
lilvaldivia: ok, I'm back
jillsportzmom: they have learned it
stichure: from?
stichure: hey lil
stichure: welcome
jillsportzmom: parents to children
bob_at18: new generation, new ideas
stichure: we are discussing the symbolism of teh thorny bush
stichure: ahh
stichure: and what was jackson hoping
bob_at18: but bad traits, have been passed down
stichure: yes bob
stichure: and what was jackson hoping
jillsportzmom: she was hoping things would be different
jillsportzmom: but they were not
godswiph: this time around
cece5990: old bush, branches cut or broken - Old ideas of opression She hoped it was new
bush with different ideas
stichure: yes
stichure: and is she surprised tghat things remain teh same
jillsportzmom: she was caught off gurad
jillsportzmom: trembling when she was untangled
stichure: but
stichure: was she angry at teh little bush
bob_at18: no, for the bush was doing what it was taught
jillsportzmom: no...just doing its job
jillsportzmom: shes resigned
jillsportzmom: to the way things are
stichure: yes
stichure: find another plant or tree
cece5990: pearly cloud of mistletoe
stichure: what is mistletoe?
cece5990: Parasitic shrub grows on trees, like oak, bears white berries in winter.
stichure: ahhh
stichure: what do we associate it with
jillsportzmom: love...kisses
stichure: ok
stichure: make an association either way
godswiph: it reminded her of something about a little boy, didn't it?
stichure: in what way
stichure: look at both meanings
bob_at18: its christmas time when she is at the hospital
stichure: which works best
stichure: yes bob...
godswiph: love
bob_at18: still trying to find where mistletoe is mentiones in story
jillsportzmom: page 176
godswiph: page 176
bob_at18: thx
stichure: why is it mentioned as pearly and cloudy?
jillsportzmom: isnt mistletoe dependant on a tree to grow
cece5990: mistletoe could represent heaven.
stichure: wht woul d that tell you about that particular love>?
stichure: yes jill
stichure: it harms teh tree
stichure: as all parasites do
stichure: or ussually do'
jillsportzmom: right
godswiph: she is dependent on the life of a little boy for her own growth
stichure: make a connection
stichure: ahh
stichure: so which is teh mistletoe
stichure: she or he
godswiph: she
jillsportzmom: she
Yahoo! Messenger: aimshome has joined the conference.
jillsportzmom: hey aim
stichure: turn it around
aimshome: hey everybody
stichure: does it still owrk
stichure: ?
bob_at18: he
stichure: explain bob
stichure: and why pearly and ckloudy
aimshome: what are you disscussing?
bob_at18: the mistletoe kill the tree, just as the little boy kills the spirit of phoenix
stichure: symbolism of [plant sin weltys worn path
stichure: ahhh
stichure: well
stichure: it wont necessarily kil the tree
stichure: but it could
bob_at18: hurt the tree
stichure: ok
stichure: how
aimshome: from the outside in
bob_at18: eats away at it
stichure: apply to the hjumans
stichure: how is he liek mistle tioe to her
stichure: yeesh
stichure: how is he liek mistletoe to her
jillsportzmom: he uses up phoenixs energy
aimshome: how peoples words could eat away at us
jillsportzmom: when she makes the trip
bob_at18: financially, spirtually, emotionally
stichure: aim..like what
stichure: you would have to apply to her grandosn
stichure: and he dont say much
jillsportzmom: she needs to feel needed to keep going
jillsportzmom: she needs him
godswiph: the misletoe cannot exist without the tree
aimshome: like hoe what people say we could just pretend that they didn't effect us...
bob_at18: he eats away at het, but she keeps going. the tree cannot live without the
mistletoe
aimshome: but slowly they eat away at us...
bob_at18: its the circle of life
aimshome: and we could start beleivign what they say
stichure: hmmm.why pearly and why cloudy
stichure: if it refers to hiom
aimshome: ????
stichure: what is eating awatyy at her
godswiph: referring to heaneb
godswiph: HEAVEN
bob_at18: pale
stichure: ahh
stichure: therefoere
cece5990: grandson in heaven
bob_at18: ahhh, i see
stichure: nice cwece
godswiph: wait a minute...
stichure: what is eating at her
stichure: what is liek a parasite
aimshome: i get it now
stichure: sucking teh life out of her
godswiph: reality
stichure: whci one gopd
stichure: which ione
bob_at18: reality of death
godswiph: she is coming to see what she once did not not
stichure: which one
stichure: which is
stichure: hehe
stichure: \folks
stichure: yopu must apply specifically to make teh symbol work
godswiph: the reality that her grandson has departed is growing on her
jillsportzmom: if he is dead...she has no more purpose in life
jillsportzmom: they are the only two left
jillsportzmom: she needs him to keep her going
stichure: YES god
stichure: yes jill
stichure: and if he's dead jill
stichure: ?
bob_at18: she has no reason to live
aimshome: no piont in life
jillsportzmom: her necessity is over
godswiph: the tree must learn stand alone
jillsportzmom: she has nothing left to live for
godswiph: without the burden of the misletoe
jillsportzmom: nothing to make her keep goingt
stichure: nice folks
stichure: aslo
stichure: mistletoe
stichure: can you eat it?
jillsportzmom: no..poinsonous
godswiph: don't know?
bob_at18: never tried, but no
bob_at18: i think.....
jillsportzmom: it is poisonous
aimshome: i don't think that you can eat it
stichure: make teh connection'
stichure: how is he poisonous to her'
aimshome: he is poisoning her with his death
stichure: interesting
stichure: who else coudl be liek misteltoe....seemingly repreentatiove of love but really
poisonous
cece5990: Whiteman
aimshome: the doctors
stichure: how
stichure: where is teh l;ove
stichure: what si teh poson
stichure: poison
aimshome: the doctors care about her the one seems fond of her yet they are giving her pills for a dead person
bob_at18: they are making her believe that there is hope?
stichure: aim...i donmt see poison there
jillsportzmom: the poison is them telling her there is no hope
stichure: unless yopu make teh point that what they do is actually harming her
aimshome: she could overdose!!!
jillsportzmom: or that her grandson is dead
stichure: aim
stichure: it snot for hweer
godswiph: the grandson died from consuming poaison, right>
godswiph: poison
godswiph: LYE
stichure: NOT REALLY
stichure: not the same
stichure: \what is lye
godswiph: not sure.. I just assumed it was a household chemical
jillsportzmom: made from wood ash
stichure: it is
stichure: used for what
bob_at18: a strong alkaline liquor rich in potassium carbonate leached from wood ashes and used especially in making soap and washing; broadly : a strong alkaline solution (as of sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide)
stichure: pure lye is used fo what
jillsportzmom: cleaning???
bob_at18: cleaning"?
stichure: cleaning what
bob_at18: argh, jill beat me to it
cece5990: drain or oven
bob_at18: stuff!!!
stichure: cece
bob_at18: hehe
stichure: what happenas if you get iot on yer hands
bob_at18: burns
jillsportzmom: lol
jillsportzmom: burns
bob_at18: like bleach
aimshome: dirty laundry
aimshome: is what they used it to clean with
stichure: what if you drank it
bob_at18: die
stichure: aim
stichure: not pure lye
stichure: pure lye would literally burn holes in cloth
stichure: yes bob
aimshome: oops
aimshome: hehehe
stichure: close yer eyes and say
godswiph: doesn't the bottom of page 181 give you the impression that the grandson was
poisoned
stichure: SWALLOWED LYE
stichure: no god
stichure: seh just says he swallowed lye
stichure: \coudl be on purpose
stichure: coiuld be acident
bob_at18: child, most likely accident
stichure: ok
stichure: swallowed lye
stichure: find a symbolic ref
stichure: think
stichure: word play
stichure: swallowed lye
godswiph: Phoenix accepting something false
stichure: ahhhh
cece5990: swallowed lie
jillsportzmom: lies
bob_at18: swalloed lye, she swalloed a lie?
stichure: but it wasnt her
stichure: ahhh
stichure: mak eteh point
stichure: what lie burns in hsi throat]
bob_at18: they both were poisoned
stichure: not her..only him
jillsportzmom: that the medicine will make him better
stichure: she didnt swallow teh l;y
stichure: no
stichure: this is before he needed medicine
stichure: what does grandosn represnt
stichure: (see bush ref)
bob_at18: one wa poisoned phisicialy, one was poiconed mentally?
jillsportzmom: that his life would be better because slavery was over
stichure: YES
stichure: bob
stichure: one person
stichure: phopenix didnt swallow any lye or any lie
stichure: only boy did
stichure: and teh lie is....
stichure: what jill
bob_at18: ahhh
stichure: and hwo doe sit burn in his throat
stichure: look at the symptoms
jillsportzmom: equality
stichure: hwo do they match his social paoition
bob_at18: not having any say
stichure: did phoenix swallow any idea taht she is equal to white men
stichure: niove frecopvery bob
stichure: nioce
jillsportzmom: no
stichure: recovery
stichure: show me jill
bob_at18: i try
stichure: itsin teh story
stichure: in yet anotyher symbol
jillsportzmom: k
stichure: is she evr offered equality
stichure: integration?
bob_at18: no
jillsportzmom: marble cake
stichure: jill shoots
stichure: shoe scores
bob_at18: she is treated as inferior
stichure: she
jillsportzmom: LOL
godswiph: lol
bob_at18: lol
stichure: what does marble cake mean
jillsportzmom: disappears when she tries to take it
stichure: what is it
stichure: ye sjill
jillsportzmom: integration
stichure: but set it up first
stichure: how
bob_at18: black and white
stichure: yes
bob_at18: merged in one
stichure: she says
stichure: giv e it to me dammit
jillsportzmom: that would be acceptable
bob_at18: but her dream dissapeers
stichure: meaning?
stichure: is she gullible
stichure: si she demanding?
jillsportzmom: it would be nice
godswiph: neither
bob_at18: idealistic
stichure: but if not?
godswiph: she's indifferent
stichure: yes god
jillsportzmom: but shes ok if not
stichure: bob?
bob_at18: whoops
stichure: expliqn
bob_at18: wrong word
bob_at18: lol
stichure: then pull it out a the toilet...
stichure: what did you mean
stichure: hehe
stichure: ye sjill
godswiph: ... lolling...
stichure: did she swallow any lie?
bob_at18: no, just a dream
godswiph: no sir
stichure: indeed
stichure: but son did
stichure: and it is...
stichure: doing what to him
stichure: and what does he represent
godswiph: killing him
stichure: yes
bob_at18: he did swallow a lye, ultimately killing him
stichure: how
godswiph: slowly
stichure: bob..you must also make teh symbolic connection as well
stichure: what part of his system is affected
stichure: heart?
stichure: feet?
bob_at18: his throat, ability to breathe
bob_at18: talk
jillsportzmom: no voice
stichure: therefore
godswiph: his throat... hence his voice
bob_at18: and live
jillsportzmom: no say
stichure: make teh literary connection here
bob_at18: the lye took away his voice
stichure: yes god
stichure: nice jill
stichure: yes bob
stichure: other plants or trees
cece5990: Withered cotton field
stichure: ok...symbol?
bob_at18: cotton used to be picked by slaves
aimshome: It's withered like she is
bob_at18: but now is withered and old, much like phoenix has nowe become
stichure: ok, bob.how is sh eliek cotton?
stichure: same q, aim
stichure: how is she liek cotton
stichure: or
stichure: what doe scotton reoeresent in a large sense
jillsportzmom: soft in the middle with a tough thorny outter shell
godswiph: history of the black race (Afro-american)
bob_at18: cotton is a cash crop that was harvested by whitemen, with the help of slaves as
labor
aimshome: the field was probably at one time great...
aimshome: but now it is withered and old..
aimshome: just as Phiex is now
bob_at18: but, slavery has stopped, and so has mass cotton production using slaves
stichure: nice jill
stichure: make a connection, god
bob_at18: has become deserted and abondoned, like phoenix is without her grrandson?
stichure: tahst good
stichure: aim..i see where yer going
godswiph: the cotton plants have died yet, in essence, the field remains
stichure: so cotton reoresnts..slavery or eth economy taht relied on it
stichure: or teh oold south
stichure: any qwould work buti need a solid response
bob_at18: to cotton is gone, the field remians,. the boy is gone, but phoenix remains
godswiph: slavery... in Phoenix's present, oppression still exists, slavery still exists it
is just less blatant
godswiph: less obvious
godswiph: to most
stichure: i like it god
stichure: nice bob
stichure: find me trees
stichure: trees
stichure: how aboutobstacles in path
stichure: what did she have to go up or over or ...
bob_at18: fences
stichure: show me
bob_at18: and had to go through a barbed-wire fence"
jillsportzmom: pines and oaks
aimshome: on page 176
bob_at18: logs as well
aimshome: the barbed wire fences
stichure: i think we disussed barbed wire ...what else
stichure: ahh jill
stichure: what is the line and where is she
godswiph: what page?
cece5990: 176
aimshome: thorns
aimshome: scarecrow
jillsportzmom: up through the pines and down through the oaks top of hill
stichure: we gotthorns done...l;ets look at the trees
stichure: pines and oaks
stichure: meaning?
stichure: ok
stichure: what does a hill mean
stichure: in a life
aimshome: trial
bob_at18: "up through pines, she said at legnth. "now down through the oaks"
jillsportzmom: hard times
stichure: yes
cece5990: uphill battle
bob_at18: ups and downs of life
stichure: when ion her life/walk?
godswiph: its more difficult to go uphill than to go down or otherwise
stichure: early or late?
godswiph: early
stichure: yes god
stichure: when did she have an uphill battel
stichure: fiorst part of life or secondf patrt
bob_at18: slavery
godswiph: first part
jillsportzmom: first
stichure: yes
stichure: yes
bob_at18: first
aimshome: at the begining of the story
cece5990: Early part of life
stichure: yes
stichure: yes
stichure: tyes
stichure: and what was tree ref
stichure: what do aoks represent
jillsportzmom: mighty strong
cece5990: Strength
stichure: from?
jillsportzmom: acorn
jillsportzmom: to mighty oak
godswiph: roots
bob_at18: growth
stichure: what age is oak associated with
stichure: youth or old age
cece5990: old
aimshome: old
bob_at18: old
stichure: when is she stronger
jillsportzmom: old
stichure: yuoung or old
godswiph: old
jillsportzmom: old
stichure: what is pine associated with
bob_at18: old
jillsportzmom: young
bob_at18: youth
stichure: how
aimshome: youth
cece5990: evergreen
stichure: yes
bob_at18: smaller tree
stichure: very good cece
stichure: yes bob
stichure: although sequoias are teh larget
stichure: but
stichure: we use evergreens how
stichure: every winter
jillsportzmom: christmas trees
stichure: around xmas time
stichure: why
bob_at18: decorations
stichure: why
stichure: why not oaks
bob_at18: smell good
stichure: why
jillsportzmom: they live for a while after they are cut down
aimshome: pine smaller
aimshome: more mobile
stichure: in winter
stichure: why opine
stichure: niot oak
bob_at18: they are in bloom
stichure: in winter
stichure: yes
bob_at18: not bare
stichure: sort of
stichure: YES
stichure: symbol of?
cece5990: life
stichure: in winter, ebverything looks....
stichure: ye scece
bob_at18: dead
stichure: and pine trees?
godswiph: bare
aimshome: alive
godswiph: still have leaves
stichure: yes
stichure: its why tehy are used as xmas trees
stichure: life in eth midtst of death
stichure: which softer wood
stichure: pine or oak
cece5990: pine
jillsportzmom: pine
godswiph: pine
aimshome: pine
bob_at18: pine
stichure: whebn was she softer
stichure: young or old
jillsportzmom: young
cece5990: youth
aimshome: young
stichure: so much from two sentences
godswiph: hmmmm...
stichure: god?
godswiph: well... when was she softer?
jillsportzmom: If I use all the symbolism I will have a 20 page report LOL
stichure: was she able to exert her will as a youngster
stichure: hehe
stichure: jill;
stichure: 5-7 pls
jillsportzmom: K
stichure: god?
jillsportzmom: no when she was young probably a slave
stichure: yes..it says so
stichure: so when was she harder
stichure: more resilient to life's scouges?
jillsportzmom: as an adult
bob_at18: older
bob_at18: stronger
godswiph: in her recent years... but what do you mean by "softer"
stichure: god..make sense?
stichure: more injured by life
stichure: more easy to manipulate
godswiph: okay.. I got it
stichure: more impressionable
godswiph: I see.
stichure: i need to explain irony to you all
stichure: any symbols or ideas you want to share before we move on
godswiph: just to be certain
godswiph: there's more, right?
stichure: i don NOT expect you to cover all teh symbols in teh story you choose
godswiph: (symbols)
stichure: our discussion here are neither exhaustive ior deefinitive
stichure: yoyu must support yopu r analaysis form teh primary and secondary sources
stichure: and there is a lot more to be found
stichure: yer secodnary source s will show you some as well
stichure: irony is a discrepancy ....
# There are several types
# All have a discrepancy or incongruity
# There is a mocking of one item or idea by another
stichure: TYPES OF IRONY
* Verbal Irony -- spoken word
* Dramatic Irony -- spoken word or expressed thought
* Situational Irony -- not spoken word
stichure: YOU MUST LABEL YOUR IRONIES TO GET FULL CREDITON A PAPER OR TEST
stichure: VERBAL IRONY
* Words spoken by character who knows the discrepancy exists -- opposite meaning is intended
* Listener may also be aware of discrepancy
* Often sarcastic in nature
* Most simplistic and least important
stichure: verbal irony is important becuase it usually is a private joke between the speaker
an d teh audience, although teh listener may or may not be aware of teh irony///
jillsportzmom: thanx
bob_at18: lol
stichure: we are not even there yet aim
aimshome: k
stichure: what does rainsford say
jillsportzmom: there is big game on the island
stichure: who cares what teh jaguar feels?
stichure: hiold on to that obne jill
stichure: tahts is not verbal
stichure: with verbal irony
bob_at18: youre a big game hunter, not a philosopher
stichure: teh speaker know s teh irony exists
jillsportzmom: k
stichure: yes bob..meaning
bob_at18: sarcasm?
stichure: sort of
stichure: in th elesson..find a verbal irony by sylvia
stichure: lok at her language
stichure: full of irony
godswiph: HELP: verbal irony vs. Sarcasm
stichure: verbal irony is menat to enlighhten
stichure: sarcasm is meant to denigrate
stichure: if it is an insyult
stichure: if it is an insult, it is sarcasm
godswiph: enighten who or whom
stichure: a form of verbal irony
aimshome: you mean how it is writte in her perspective and she uses words like purdee
aimshome: instead of preety
aimshome: pretty
aimshome: is that what you mean
stichure: verbal irony is more like...saying soemthing in a way that youknwo teh opposiote
is intended
stichure: white folsk is crazy
jillsportzmom: can we steal
godswiph: can you give a real life example or something easy to find
stichure: yes jill
stichure: did she knwo teh answer when she asked it
jillsportzmom: yes
stichure: thats is veerbal then
aimshome: like "so what's a paperweight? ask s Rosie
aimshome: To wiegh paper with yo0 u dumbbell
stichure: did she knwo what a paperweightis
stichure: ahh
stichure: which is teh irony
stichure: q or a?
aimshome: the fact that he thinks that he's right when he's not
stichure: ahh
stichure: verbal irony requires that teh speaker (him) know teh truth
stichure: he doesnt
stichure: he is being sarcastic
stichure: as if she were ignoarnty
stichure: ignorant
stichure: in reality 'he is
stichure: thats i dramatic irony
aimshome: I think that he's serious but he is just incorrect
aimshome: what that be right
stichure: teh discrpeancy between what teh speaker says and what teh audience knwos to be
true
stichure: DRAMATIC IRONY
* Also spoken word... or may be based on what character thinks-- but it's the
discrepancy between what character says and reader knows to be true -- often the "joke" is
on speaker
* Often statement is true, but in an unexpected way
* Often Irony revealed elsewhere in story
* More important and insightful than verbal
stichure: verbal irony someone saying soemthing they know i s not true in a way that we
know they are not lying, but being ironic
stichure: dramatioc irony is wehn soemone says soemthing that they do NOT knwo is ironic but
we do
stichure: his answweer we knwo is wrong
stichure: he is revealing his own ignorance when he thought he was revealing hers
stichure: tahst is dramatic irony
bob_at18: ok
aimshome: cool
aimshome: i get it
bob_at18: makes sense
stichure: verbal and dramatic are both spoken word...dramtci can also be thought
stichure: fro example
stichure: what did dee THINK hertiage was based on
bob_at18: items
stichure: is sher right?
stichure: she
bob_at18: not entirely
jillsportzmom: no
stichure: does segh knwo shes wrong
jillsportzmom: no
bob_at18: nope
stichure: who does she think is ignorant
jillsportzmom: her mother
bob_at18: maggie, mama
aimshome: her mom and sis
stichure: does maggie knwo soemthing dee doesnt
jillsportzmom: yes
bob_at18: heritage
stichure: would dee ever understand that?
bob_at18: nope
jillsportzmom: no
stichure: thast is dramatic
stichure: SITUATIONAL IRONY
* Irony of situation, not linked (necessarily) to spoken word
* Discrepancy between appearance and reality, expectation and outcome, or reality and
the way things should be
* Most powerful and complex of ironies
stichure: situational is symbols
stichure: settings
stichure: teh idea that dees house was in a pasture
stichure: what si teh uirony
stichure: how deos she treat her family
bob_at18: ignorant
stichure: pasture
stichure: make connectiobn
stichure: she think sthey live like....
stichure: (pasture)
aimshome: past?
cece5990: Animals
stichure: YES CECE
stichure: situational irony
godswiph: Ohhhh.. I think I got it
stichure: irony of phoenix journey for her grandosn
stichure: ....
aimshome: like a wlak through her life
jillsportzmom: she is making a trip for medicine for a child that might already be dead
stichure: what is teh irony of her literal journey
stichure: ye sjill
bob_at18: she is making a long journey, for someone who had made there journey through life
stichure: adn teh hunter
stichure: whta does he think about her
stichure: sort of bob...
jillsportzmom: silly old lady making a long trip to see santa
stichure: be less elliptical
stichure: yes jill...and who is really teh believer in foilk tales and make believe
stichure: him or her
jillsportzmom: him
bob_at18: him
stichure: and what is it
stichure: taht he ebelieves that we knwo to be true
stichure: we know to be untrue
stichure: oops
stichure: what does he beelive that we know bettter
jillsportzmom: his has more power than her
jillsportzmom: more rights
stichure: one yes..although teh case coudl be made that he does
stichure: who is smarter
stichure: he does
stichure: have more rights
stichure: who is smarter
jillsportzmom: she is smarter
stichure: in his eyes
stichure: hwo jill
bob_at18: he is
jillsportzmom: she knows where she fits in
stichure: true jill
jillsportzmom: she understands the way thing are and lives her life accordingly
stichure: who gets teh best in their meeting
cece5990: she outsmarts him with the nickel
stichure: who gets teh bettter
stichure: yes cece
stichure: deo she knwo uit
stichure: does he know it
jillsportzmom: she does she gets the nickle
jillsportzmom: no
bob_at18: no
stichure: dramatic
stichure: and would we expect her to outwit him?
cece5990: no
jillsportzmom: not at her age
stichure: situational
stichure: verbal..spoken word thatis a direct opposition between what is said and what is
intebnded
stichure: dramatic...distinction between what a character says or thinks and what we know to
be true
stichure: cgaracter does not know until latrer, if at all
stichure: situastional...symbolic or situational irinies associated with setting, names,
actyions, etc
stichure: if the irony stuffis still unclear
stichure: do symbols
stichure: we will use more irony next week
stichure: wil be discussed
stichure: yes
jillsportzmom: what kind of irony it is
stichure: yes
stichure: always
bob_at18: sounds good
stichure: great
jillsportzmom: so I say "it was situational irony when..."
stichure: i am think it is
jillsportzmom: like that
stichure: yes jill
jillsportzmom: yes
stichure: have a good week everyone...we are in home stretch after this week
jillsportzmom: LOL
bob_at18: ok, thank you
stichure: quite a lustre
stichure: yer welcome
bob_at18: see you all next week. good luck
jillsportzmom: you mean we are going "down hill"
jillsportzmom: LOL
stichure: buzz me if you have any questions
bob_at18: lolk
stichure: hehe
stichure: yes
jillsportzmom: how's that for symbolism
godswiph: okay
stichure: very good jill
aimshome: bye everyone
stichure: bye aim
jillsportzmom: have a great week all
stichure: bye god
stichure: bye jill
stichure: bye bob
stichure: bye cece
cece5990: good nite
stichure: bey lil
bob_at18: see ya
bob_at18: *poof*
bob_at18: heh
stichure: poof