Yahoo! Messenger: Conference stichure-7142 started. Yahoo! Messenger: cece5990 has joined the conference. Yahoo! Messenger: bob_at18 has joined the conference. Yahoo! Messenger: godswiph has joined the conference. stichure: hey now cece5990: hi bob_at18: hey hey godswiph: things are hard Yahoo! Messenger: pam_uribe2002 has joined the conference. stichure: hello pam pam_uribe2002: hi stichure: we will start on paper 3 stichure: I want you all to go to the main web site. tell me when you're on the main page bob_at18: lol, dident even check\ stichure: let me know when you're on the main web site page godswiph: .... bob_at18: at main page cece5990: I'm there.. godswiph: got it stichure: English 101 Yahoo! Messenger: jillsportzmom has joined the conference. jillsportzmom: hey there all bob_at18: hey jill cece5990: Based on all these stories? stichure: Jill, we are at the library... English 101 link stichure: the secondary sources are available on the Internet and through the library's databases stichure: you must write a 7 to 10 page paper stichure: three to five secondary sources stichure: works cited page stichure: same as Works cited bob_at18: ok bob_at18: thx jillsportzmom: thanx godswiph: Oh okay... stichure: Ann yes it is the final paper pam_uribe2002: ok stichure: yes God godswiph: sounds good godswiph: Is it a research paper or a critical analysis like what we've been doing bob_at18: what is paper topic? bob_at18: irony? bob_at18: symbol stichure: for my papers, I want you to focus on symbolism, irony and/or conflict as your major points. If you like, you may also discuss setting and narrative point of view in your analysis. godswiph: So you're implying that the topic is the same as paper except there will be no help from you? stichure: we will discuss these as a part of chat during the next several weeks jillsportzmom: j stichure: depending on your needs jillsportzmom: k stichure: I encourage students to work together to gather sources stichure: to work out details of an analysis stichure: to have someone to read their paper who understands the story well enough to give a valid response bob_at18: so we need to buddy-up? godswiph: Isn't peer editing required this time, or not? stichure: it is required God stichure: that is your option, Bob bob_at18: ok stichure: and I encourage it stichure: any other questions about the stories either generally or specifically bob_at18: not at this time stichure: I have read all of these stories godswiph: perfect godswiph: are the paper requirements on the class website godswiph: the exact ones? stichure: I just gave them to you stichure: but yes they are stichure: also, I will post the specifics on the Canvas stichure: under paper 3 stichure: folks here is an important factor stichure: you may decide to pick something that only has four pages stichure: because it only has four pages stichure: but the problem as you have to be able to write about them. You may find that something that very short does not have enough material for you to expound upon stichure: be careful stichure: read the story. Make sure you understand it. Find some secondary sources. stichure: then make that your choice stichure: if you cannot find resources you need, go to anotherstory stichure: it is better to change stories earlier than to try to write a paper based on insufficient information stichure: you will be looking for material in your secondary sources that reflects specifically the information you have decided to discussing your paper... irony symbolism and the like stichure: anyone have any questions about the stories themselves stichure: please note that date of author ship jillsportzmom: not before I read them stichure: it may have an impact on language jillsportzmom: one from 1991 how exciting cece5990: How will it affect the language? stichure: CC... material written in the 1800s uses a different set a vocabulary words than material written in the 1900s cece5990: gotcha bob_at18: like "good day", to "waaazzzuuupppp????" aimshome: so these are our options to write for our final paper? stichure: 7 -10 pages stichure: works cited page stichure: three to five secondary sources stichure: focus should be on symbolism, irony and conflict stichure: probably bob_at18: lol jillsportzmom: I have many ??? stichure: anything over 10 pages will be penalized stichure: again, any questions about paper 3 stichure: I expect you to get started on this TOMORROW jillsportzmom: not yet jillsportzmom: No pressure stichure: I expect you will have made a final choice by next week. I expect that you'll begin getting secondary sources IMMEDIATELY stichure: focus should be on symbolism, irony and/or conflict stichure: any questions about the stories themselves bob_at18: not yet aimshome: cool aimshome: thank jillsportzmom: not yet stichure: please note that some of these are available on tape stichure: some of them have been made into movies stichure: the movie is not the story godswiph: I'll have some q's later on in the week. stichure: that's fine stichure: all of these have secondary source material available in the library. The librarians know what you are looking for and why. They will direct you to the right place aimshome: do we have to go to citrus libery? aimshome: or can we just go to public liberay stichure: citrus stichure: public libraries generally do not have research material aimshome: what about on'line sources stichure: what about them? aimshome: can we use tham? stichure: absolutely stichure: I expect you to stichure: in fact, if you go to the library, they will show you both hard copy and high-tech copy aimshome: so any resource is ok aimshome: right? stichure: no stichure: literary resources are ok aimshome: I'm cunfused stichure: biographies, literary criticism, thematic analysis, stichure: you may get them from the library in the reference section or you may get them online from the literary resource websites that we have provided for you aimshome: ok I think I got aimshome: it aimshome: one more question aimshome: when is it due stichure: figure Dec 2 or so. it is posted on Canvas stichure: there are two other assignments associated with the final paper that you must submit to me stichure: the first is an outline of your paper. This is a requirement from the department. There are two ways to go about this. The first is to create a working outline of your intended paper and submit it to me by the beginning of October.... no later stichure: I will use this to help you formulate the organization of the paper or to remind you of specific topics that may be missing or may be included but off the subject. stichure: the second way is to provide with your final paper a finished outline that reflects the finished product stichure: it doesn't really help you much, but it's a requirement stichure: any questions about the outline bob_at18: how long should the out line be? jillsportzmom: are the outline requirements on the website stichure: Bob, it should reflect your work. The outline should fit on two pieces of paper bob_at18: ok stichure: an outline is posted on my web site under organization and outlines. It shows you the basic framework in the content. We discussed in the same organization when we discussed what goes in the various paragraphs of the essay. it is full sentences, not just words or phrases jillsportzmom: k stichure: the other aspect are the note cards... these are also called an annotated Works cited godswiph: As far as the outline of an essay goes... does one entire major point have to be thrown in one paragraph because if there are 3 major points, then it would be a 5 paragraph 9 page paper? cece5990: Is there a sample of the notecards on your website? stichure: back in the old days, the schoolMARM would send us to the library with index cards and pencil and as we found secondary sources, we would write down the author, the title, the publisher or etc.... all the material that is now included on a works cited page, and then have them to use at our disposal. Along with this other information on each card would be a very short description of what the resource was. That way, as we gathered our resources, we could keep track of what we had an what we were missing godswiph: I'll definitely need help with note cards stichure: yes stichure: today's electronic technology allows us to create an annotated Works cited stichure: go to the paper format and test instructions page stichure: and choose note cards/annotated works stichure: under organization bob_at18: http://www.englit.org/eiland_shared/notecards.htm stichure: what I expect you to do is go to the library or access onliner through teh virtual; libaray card and do your secondary source search. Note the author of the title the publisher or etc. of each of the items you find. With these items, create a working works cited stichure: thank you Bob stichure: underneath each entry you'll give a brief description of what that resource is bob_at18: "dead on the mountain" stichure: this is not be finished works cited. It isn't indicator to meet of your research process, including the items that you will not be using but that you found during your search stichure: indeed, Bob, indeed stichure: your final Works cited will be different in that it will have only the items that you used on your paper and of course will not have the annotations stichure: by sending me this particular document I can see what you are finding and what is missing stichure: you don't need 14 biographies stichure: and you don't need discussions of irony when your topic according to your thesis is symbolism stichure: those items at the top of the page are not note cards... those are postcards stichure: examples of note card entries and annotations are below the postcards stichure: the annotations is your brief explanation of what the resource is cece5990: It's a document, not really cards? stichure: exactly stichure: so its easier to send electronically godswiph: the pictures throw me off stichure: is jerry scary bob_at18: go jerry!!! stichure: just send me an annotated works wehn you get it togetehr stichure: bob...he went stichure: hehehe bob_at18: lol, i know godswiph: I think I get the notecards: everytime we find a source, we write the preceding info down and send it to you to make sure we're on track cece5990: Is it a continuing thing? Or do we send it all at once? aimshome: don't we just send it once stichure: all at once, 10 items, primary source included godswiph: Ohhhhh godswiph: alrighty stichure: unless you start working right away stichure: any questions bob_at18: not at this time cece5990: no jillsportzmom: I'll let you know after I hit the library LOL godswiph: no aimshome: no thanks stichure: any questions about note cards jillsportzmom: not yet godswiph: is there a specific format stichure: any questions about the outline bob_at18: not yet cece5990: no jillsportzmom: no stichure: for what, God godswiph: or should we just get the requested info to you godswiph: notecards? stichure: the format is essentially a Works cited page with added sentence or two after each entry godswiph: OHHHh... I see stichure: any questions about paper 3 stichure: I'm glad, god stichure: any other questions at all stichure: you may use any one of those stories, plays or poems I gave you on CANVAS for teh final paper assignment aimshome: why do i get the feeling that i asked a stupid question stichure: I'm not sure stichure: is there anything else... stichure: we will now move on the conflict stichure: conflict is the last literary term for the class stichure: for those of you have been struggling with irony and symbolism, this may be a breath of fresh air stichure: or maybe just more trouble jillsportzmom: yeah stichure: quick quiz: how many types of irony are there bob_at18: 3 jillsportzmom: 3 cece5990: three godswiph: 3 aimshome: 3 stichure: what are they bob_at18: situational, dramatic, verbal godswiph: situational, verbal & dramtic jillsportzmom: what bob said lol aimshome: yup cece5990: ditto godswiph: although I haven't gotten 'em quite down yet godswiph: what about dramtic stichure: hold on godswiph: its a newer one stichure: the point can try to make here is that conflict also has three elements aimshome: cool beans stichure: the difference is that we have actually been discussing several of those elements throughout the course. Now, we are going to name them stichure: conflict is defined as the primary issue or struggle for protagonists within a story aimshome: arighty then stichure: there are three types stichure: man vs. man is a struggle between two individuals stichure: man vs. man conflict is the easiest to identify stichure: it is usually the main focus of an escapist story stichure: and any plot driven story stichure: more important is man vs. self stichure: man vs. self is an inner conflict... either resolved or unresolved by the end of the story. Man vs. self is usually the primary focus of literary fiction especially character driven stories stichure: the last conflict is man vs. nature stichure: man vs. nature has several aspects stichure: man vs. nature on the surface means man vs. the external environment, usually mother nature personifuied stichure: but also man vs. nature means man vs. environment stichure: whether human or natural made stichure: man vs. nature also refers to man vs. any external force other than human beings stichure: including societies aimshome: ok godswiph: I get it though aimshome: thank you aimshome: in one of my english classes they instead of nature said man vs a force greater than himself aimshome: would that be correct/ aimshome: ? stichure: that is fine. aim aimshome: cool beans stichure: frankly, it's not man vs. anything anymore aimshome: alright just checking stichure: its person vs. etc. stichure: yes aim aimshome: thanks aimshome: is that it? stichure: that's it stichure: start on paper 3 aimshome: thank you bob_at18: ok bob_at18: thx aimshome: bye everybody jillsportzmom: k aimshome: see you later cece5990: bye Yahoo! Messenger: aimshome has left the conference. bob_at18: see you all next week godswiph: see you jillsportzmom: night all godswiph: later cece5990: c u Yahoo! Messenger: godswiph has left the conference. stichure: by everyone. See you next week Yahoo! Messenger: bob_at18 has left the conference. Yahoo! Messenger: jillsportzmom has left the conference.