You have just entered room "englitguy Chat05."
EricLBecker1982 has entered the room.
FRECKLS4ME has entered the room.
EricLBecker1982: Good evening!
FRECKLS4ME: hello
englitguy: hey now
englitguy: we will discuss the answers to the test
EricLBecker1982: Well, I don't know if my strategy on the second test worked or not, but at least I
FELT better about writing...I bought a big blue book instead of a small one, it felt much more
liberating to have all that space to write in.
katzenjamrzz has entered the room.
englitguy: let's start with the basics so that we can understand what is going on in the story
englitguy: who are the two characters
EricLBecker1982: Montressor and Fortunato
englitguy: when is the story taking place
FRECKLS4ME: fortunato and montresor
EricLBecker1982: The story is taking place during carnival.
englitguy: where is the story taking place
englitguy: meaning what Eric
englitguy: what is the carnival season
EricLBecker1982: The story is taking place during an event called Carnival.....I'm trying to
remember what the significance of Carnival is.
englitguy: it would help if we knew in what country this was taking place
EricLBecker1982: Mardi Gras?
englitguy: what is Mardi Gras
EricLBecker1982: I want to say a celebration of the dead, but I can't remember why I think that.
englitguy: Mardi Gras is French
englitguy: for fat Tuesday
englitguy: that Tuesday is the day before
englitguy: ash Wednesday
englitguy: which is the first day of
englitguy: ...
EricLBecker1982: Ah yes, the day of eating much stuff before lent.
englitguy: why
englitguy: what happens during lent
EricLBecker1982: Because during lent you have to give something up.
EricLBecker1982: And you can't eat meat on Fridays.
englitguy: what religion observes lent
englitguy: why Eric
FRECKLS4ME: catholics
englitguy: in other words, what is the philosophy
englitguy: what country is this story occurring in
katzenjamrzz: Italy
englitguy: why do you give something up
EricLBecker1982: Catholics.
katzenjamrzz: to atone
englitguy: how you know that Cats
englitguy: when you atone to what are you asking for
EricLBecker1982: Forgiveness?
katzenjamrzz: On the first page, it says "few Italians have the true virtuoso spirit."
englitguy: and therefore what should you offer others
englitguy: very good Katz
katzenjamrzz: thanks
englitguy: what goes on during the madness of the carnival season
katzenjamrzz: you should forgive them
englitguy: what is going on when we meet our characters
EricLBecker1982: Everybody is out partying.
katzenjamrzz: they are in party clothes, drinking
englitguy: How is Fortunato dressed
EricLBecker1982: Dare I say silly...explanation coming in a moment.
FRECKLS4ME: colorful
englitguy: be more specific
katzenjamrzz: like a jester, a clown
englitguy: the narrator is telling us a specific image
EricLBecker1982: A tight-fitting parti-striped dress, he had a conical cap and bells on his head.
katzenjamrzz: carefree
englitguy: how is Montresor dressed
FRECKLS4ME: jester is what comes to my mind-For Fortunato
katzenjamrzz: more seriously
englitguy: that is correct freckles... be more specific cats
katzenjamrzz: he is solemnly dressed, in a cape with a hood
englitguy: more specifically...
katzenjamrzz: looking...
englitguy: color
englitguy: what is the point of view of this particular story
katzenjamrzz: dark color; black
englitguy: also, what is a year approximately
englitguy: what is the year approximately
englitguy: what does Montresor look like
katzenjamrzz: the point of view is Montresor's
englitguy: first third
katzenjamrzz: oh.
EricLBecker1982: Probably at or around 1845....my only clue is that it was published in 1846.
englitguy: good guess Eric
katzenjamrzz: well, this was narrated 50 years after it happened, yes?
englitguy: so, put the setting altogether
katzenjamrzz: so, the setting is a Catholic place, a party atmosphere
Mandrini87 has entered the room.
katzenjamrzz: one guy is dressed like a jester and another like... well,
englitguy: what year
englitguy: I will be right back
englitguy: discuss amongst yourselves
katzenjamrzz: it says his cloak is one worn during the 18th century
katzenjamrzz: so, it must be before the 1800's
EricLBecker1982: All right.......well, it's definitely between 1800 and 1850.
katzenjamrzz: si?
englitguy: the point that it is in or around the 1800s is the most important
katzenjamrzz: on page 433, there is a note
katzenjamrzz: ah. okay
Mandrini87: 1846 is my guess..
katzenjamrzz: we were trying to talk among ourselves
englitguy: what is the primary plot
katzenjamrzz: revenge
katzenjamrzz: there's a lot of evil vs good, it seems
englitguy: by whom upon whom
katzenjamrzz: a lot of judgment
EricLBecker1982: Fortunato insulted Montressor, who vows revenge and eventually takes it.
FRECKLS4ME: montresor is seeking revenge on fortunato
katzenjamrzz: Montresor is seeking revenge upon F
katzenjamrzz: ah! great minds
englitguy: start with symbols and start with the characters themselves, including clothing and
names. Also include the symbolism of the setting
katzenjamrzz: symbols: name: fortunato, fortunate one
englitguy: symbolic? Explain how
katzenjamrzz: oh. okay.
katzenjamrzz: it is a symbol and ironic, also.
katzenjamrzz: the name wold be symbolic because it means Fortunate, but it is ironic because he
ends up not being fortunate.
katzenjamrzz: it's situational irony
katzenjamrzz: i need help with more symbols
Mandrini87: At the beginning, it was set in a carnival of some sort, signifying a joyful, a festive
type of atmosphere. Possibly to emphasize by contrast the dark vaults that the story would be
set in upon its conclusion.
katzenjamrzz: montresor would be symbolic of what
englitguy: is his life prior to meeting Montresor for that night emblematic of his name
katzenjamrzz: yes, he has been fortunate in being rich
englitguy: to what had a person's Fortunato... what is his personality as explained by the narrator
and also as demonstrated by Fortunato's own words in the story
katzenjamrzz: yes. and maybe the fact that careless abandon and gluttony should be punished
englitguy: what kind of person is Fortunato
katzenjamrzz: He's a snob. looking...
FRECKLS4ME: a man who is respected and feared.
katzenjamrzz: on page 433, F says, "Luchesi cannot tell Amontillado from Sherry"
Mandrini87: He was a "virtuoso [type of] spirit", but he was also a "Quack" although he was
respected and feared.
katzenjamrzz: F wants to prove that he can tell a good Amontillado
englitguy: man, what are we to take from that?
katzenjamrzz: so, he has a superior attitude
EricLBecker1982: It takes place in Italy, by the way.
EricLBecker1982: In case nobody brought that up (I didn't see it.)
englitguy: it was mentioned quite early actually
englitguy: but helped put everything altogether in one sentence
Mandrini87: He reached all ends of the spectrum in terms of his personality, some found him
amusing, others feared him.
englitguy: why does Montresor want to kill him
katzenjamrzz: page 432 "when he ventured upon insult, I vowed revenge."
englitguy: so what did he do
englitguy: shoot his dog
englitguy: kiss his wife
englitguy: steel his car
katzenjamrzz: o, contraire
FRECKLS4ME: he took him into the vaults and buried him alive
englitguy: eat his jumbo Jack
katzenjamrzz: I think he insulted his family
englitguy: know... what did Fortunato do to Montresor
katzenjamrzz: his heritage
englitguy: that's all?
EricLBecker1982: Hey...that was an endorsement for Jack In The Box!
Mandrini87: He insulted him, one of many "injuries" he inflicted..
katzenjamrzz: well, maybe he lip-sync-ed, but that's not in the story
englitguy: not if that results in murder
englitguy: that would be worth killing for cats
katzenjamrzz: thanks. and curiosity, of course
phildo6966 has entered the room.
katzenjamrzz: Montresor has got to be symbolic of something
EricLBecker1982: I was wondering at the beginning of the story if his intent truely was murder, or
if it merely occured because the situation was set up for such.
L8T Jayde has entered the room.
englitguy: the motive for this murder is important because it has to do with whether or not the
revenge is successful or not
englitguy: Eric, are you applying this might be accidental rather than premeditated
englitguy: is this premeditated
katzenjamrzz: it says, "the very definitiveness with which it was resolved..."
L8T Jayde: Thank you Freckles
englitguy: implying
katzenjamrzz: i mean, murder is definite
katzenjamrzz: He also says, 'at length' he would be avenged
FRECKLS4ME: your welcome
EricLBecker1982: I'm implying that to an extent it may have been....
katzenjamrzz: so, he's definitely definite
englitguy: Eric...
EricLBecker1982: .....since he doesn't imply what he's planning, then that happens.
englitguy: is this planned out
englitguy: does he have things planned out
englitguy: if you are prosecutor would you say this was manslaughter or premeditated murder
EricLBecker1982: I don't know....I don't think so because he encounters him, but at the same time
I do think so because of the Amontillado.
L8T Jayde: pre
EricLBecker1982: So from that standpoint, I'd say he planned it out.
englitguy: explain J.
Mandrini87: I would say so, In the opening paragraphs, Montresor makes it seem that he
purposely "smiled" and was friendly toward him (over a period of time) to obscure his malicious
intent.
FRECKLS4ME: yes. 2nd paragraph. page 432
englitguy: yes man
englitguy: be specific freckles
L8T Jayde: He planned it he went with intent
katzenjamrzz: he could have happened on him on purpose, knowing where he'd be
englitguy: explain J.... how do we know that
L8T Jayde: Because he appeared happy
L8T Jayde: he was smiling
FRECKLS4ME: "...he did not perceive that my smile now was at the thought of his immolation."
katzenjamrzz: we know it was pre-meditated because in the first paragraph M says, "At length I
would be avenged."
englitguy: yes freckles
katzenjamrzz: He knew in advance
englitguy: not quite clear J.
L8T Jayde: what
FRECKLS4ME: immolation-offer in sacrifice
englitguy: yes Katz... but folks as the story progresses there are specific things that tell us
whether or not he had planned as out
englitguy: planned this out
katzenjamrzz: for one thing, he had his trowel with him
L8T Jayde: excatly
EricLBecker1982: Another thing that makes me think that he did is the way that he leads him into
the chamber, slowly intoxicating him more and more the deeper they go, then leads him into the
area with the two iron staples.
L8T Jayde: why else would he have it with him
englitguy: better answer cats
englitguy: better answer Eric
englitguy: what else
Mandrini87: Around Section 25, pg 433 Fortunato asked about the pipe, as the pace of his gait w
as unsteady, as if he was suspecting something foul to happen. Montresor attempted to throw
him off the track by requesting that he "observe the white web-work which gleamed from the
cavern walls." Distracting him enough from his suspicions.
englitguy: good man
katzenjamrzz: Well, he was unsteady partly because he was drinking
katzenjamrzz: The jingling bells are ironic
katzenjamrzz: situational
englitguy: were not there yet cats
katzenjamrzz: sorry
FRECKLS4ME: Fortunato was a wine connoisseur and Montresor knew that if he put a challenge
of having someone else check the Amontillado for its authenticity he could get him to follow
because he would not be out done by another.
englitguy: yes freckles
englitguy: does the amontillado exist
FRECKLS4ME: i don't think so
katzenjamrzz: it doesn't have to
EricLBecker1982: It doesn't appear to.
EricLBecker1982: There's no mention of it actually appearing in the story, just several
implications of its existance.
englitguy: does Fortunato think the amontillado exists
FRECKLS4ME: yes
katzenjamrzz: yes
phildo6966: no
katzenjamrzz: He doesn't think about it, because he's operating on ego, wanting to prove he has
good taste
katzenjamrzz: no?
englitguy: fill explain
phildo6966: fortunado wants to prove that he is just saying he has it to fit in at the high class party
Mandrini87: Up until the end, I think he comes to the realization that it was all some kind of joke,
"he! he! he! over our wine he! he! he!"
EricLBecker1982: He wants it to exist because he wants some.
englitguy: not quite phil
phildo6966: oh, ok
englitguy: you're looking at the wrong side of the argument
englitguy: look at it from Fortunato's point
katzenjamrzz: Montresor is appealing to Fortunado's ego, because he knows this will keep F
interested
englitguy: why would Fortunato bother to leave a party and follow Montresor down to the
catacombs if he does not believe the amontillado exists
FRECKLS4ME: he thinks that's what he's going to taste, he is a wine connoisseur trying to prove
that it is or isn't actually amontillado
phildo6966: fortunado wants to prove m a fool
phildo6966: m= montressor
englitguy: phil
englitguy: yes
katzenjamrzz: M was going to ask Luchesi, as a threat to F. F wants to prove he can judge better
than Luchesi
englitguy: remember why Montresor wants to kill Fortunato in first-place
phildo6966: he has insulted him
englitguy: was he really going to cats
englitguy: and what does Fortunato want to do again
phildo6966: his family i mean
FRECKLS4ME: seek revenge
FRECKLS4ME: sorry wrong one
phildo6966: INSULT HIM ONCE AGAIN
katzenjamrzz: was he really going to ask Luchesi? no. He just said that to appeal to F's ego
englitguy: yes fill
englitguy: yes Katz
englitguy: folks, the stuff is important because it has a lot to do with both the symbols and irony in
the story
englitguy: let's get to the irony of Fortunato's costume
katzenjamrzz: ok
englitguy: in life does he perceived himself as a fool
Mandrini87: Fortunado wants to goad Fortunato into insulting him, it could be so he could justify
in his own mind his reasons for taking a life.
Mandrini87: I mean F wants to goad M into insulting him, (duh)
EricLBecker1982: No, he doesn't.
katzenjamrzz: F would be insulted to be called a fool
EricLBecker1982: Fortunato thinks he is the ultimate person.
katzenjamrzz: he doesn't seem to have a sense of humor about himself
englitguy: possible man, but it's already happened
englitguy: Eric that is vague but correct. You need to put it within the context of the story
Mandrini87: I mean M wants to goad F into insulting him (man, I must've drunk too much
Amontillado myself!)
englitguy: pass it around man
katzenjamrzz: within the context of the story?
EricLBecker1982: Okay.....well, the story says "in painting and gemmary Fortunato, like his
countrymen, was a quack."
katzenjamrzz: i guess you mean F thinks highly of himself in comparison to the other character(s)
englitguy: how is Montresor dressed
katzenjamrzz: in a roquelaire (long cloak)
englitguy: that is a better answer Eric if you can explain what that quack means
englitguy: cats keep going
katzenjamrzz: covered.
katzenjamrzz: with a hood. hidden
katzenjamrzz: ominous
phildo6966: grim reaper looking
katzenjamrzz: sometimes I see the character of Death in a hood
EricLBecker1982: Quack....someone who talks like they know what they mean but don't really
know what they mean.
katzenjamrzz: yes!
Mandrini87: Darth Vader looking
EricLBecker1982: Someone who's full of hot air.
katzenjamrzz: symbol
englitguy: better answer, Eric
englitguy: Phil, you think Montresor in daily life is in the role of the grim REAPER
phildo6966: are you asking about the definition?
phildo6966: reaper?
englitguy: this has to do with irony
katzenjamrzz: both characters are dressed counter to what they think of themselves
englitguy: obviously from symbolic standpoint does Montresors costume reflect his attitude
englitguy: explained cats
katzenjamrzz: I think Montresor's costume more reflects what he feels is his duty (getting
revenge) right now
englitguy: in the meantime, someone to find it be criteria that the narrator explains are necessary
for a successful revenge
katzenjamrzz: but normally, i don't think M thinks of himself as threatening
katzenjamrzz: and F definitely does not see himself as a clown
katzenjamrzz: so, his costume is ironic.
phildo6966: impunity,
englitguy: which is what, Phil
Mandrini87: Montressor seems to be a nice guy. In the opening paragraph he mentioned how F
knowing the nature of his soul (as a peaceful person) would never suspect that he would react to
F's threats. M's attire probably reflects his dark nature that would take over so that he could
commit the murder.
englitguy: okay man
phildo6966: dont get caught by the man
englitguy: by the way man, keep your F'S and M'S straight
Mandrini87: OK, no more Amontillado for me, I'll switch to Budweiser ("What are YOU doing")
phildo6966: exemption or freedom from punishment
englitguy: how many times does Montresor tried to get Fortunato turn around
englitguy: yes Phil
englitguy: what else
FRECKLS4ME: Fortunato was dressed as the jester, the one people make fun of, so now who
has the last laugh. Montresor will laugh at Fortunato when he gets his revenge.
katzenjamrzz: what is the question?
phildo6966: exemption or freedom from punishment, harm or loss
FRECKLS4ME: several, or do you want a specific number?
englitguy: freckles, that is the theory... does that work
englitguy: there are three specific things that the narrator refers to
englitguy: the first is that he must get away with it
englitguy: what are the other two
katzenjamrzz: M says the victim must know the avenger
katzenjamrzz: first paragraph "equally unredressed when the avenger fails to make himself felt'
englitguy: what else
katzenjamrzz: well, 'a wrong is unredressed when retribution overtakes its redresser'
katzenjamrzz: but, that's back to doing it with impunity, right?
englitguy: not exactly
L8T Jayde: it must be done to honor the montresors
englitguy: impunity usually refers to being busted
englitguy: explain J.
katzenjamrzz: oh, 'precluded the idea of risk'
englitguy: over taking redresser means you must maintain control
L8T Jayde: he is trying to gain the approval of the reader in playing it off to be an honor to the
montressors
englitguy: so, you must let the person know what you're doing, you must maintain control, and
you must get away with it
englitguy: how does he do
englitguy: certainly J.
katzenjamrzz: ok. i thought it meant, you have to be able to get revenge without having revenge
brought against you
englitguy: how well does he gain our approval
katzenjamrzz: oh, okay
englitguy: that would be impunity cats
katzenjamrzz: sorry
L8T Jayde: not well for he is viewed as a murderous madman
L8T Jayde: we do not share in his gloating satisfaction
phildo6966: he is pretty smart
katzenjamrzz: well, he keeps calling F his 'friend'
L8T Jayde: we connect with the fears of fortunato
L8T Jayde: being walled up alive to die slowly in the dark of starvation or suffocation
phildo6966: to fool such a high class, (educated) man into falling for such a ploy
katzenjamrzz: I don't think he gains our approval, but he also does not show F in a very good
light.
EricLBecker1982: Well, it wasn't too difficult, Fortunato was pretty drunk, after all.
phildo6966: righto
englitguy: who is Montresor talking to
englitguy: who is he trying to get on his side
phildo6966: priest?
phildo6966: approval, forgiveness
L8T Jayde: and Montresor used him in his weak point to get his revenge, quite possibly as
intelligent and Fortunato was it was the only way he could get away with it
katzenjamrzz: "you, who so well know the nature of my soul'
englitguy: how do you know Phil
phildo6966: he says there is an aching in his heart, and it seems as if it has bothered him for the
last 50 years so he wants to be forgiven for what he has done
Mandrini87: It sounds like he's trying to get his own self on his side. He seems to be having an
internal struggle with what he's doing to F. On page 436, section 75 he says "for a brief moment I
hesitated-I trembled" and then he resumed what he was doing, "but the thought of an instant
reassured me"
englitguy: which brings us back to whether or not it is successful revenge
englitguy: did he ever tell Fortunato what he was doing and why
EricLBecker1982: No, he didn't.
englitguy: did he maintain his control
EricLBecker1982: Yes, he did, very well.
englitguy: see man's last comment
Mandrini87: barely, but yes.
phildo6966: he was going to before he put the last brick in
L8T Jayde: no
englitguy: explained J.
phildo6966: i think fortunado knew the same things as monty and knew it would screw his whole
plan up
Mandrini87: I've got to "Poof" now people... hasta next Tuesday...
englitguy: finally, did he get away with it... was he unpunished
phildo6966: adios
englitguy: bye man
Mandrini87 has left the room.
L8T Jayde: he reveals his own madness unsheathed his rapier he thrusts about with it and then
responds by echoing and surpassing the cries of his victim
englitguy: good point J.
EricLBecker1982: Yes, very good point.
englitguy: finally, does he go unpunished
englitguy: according to what we know from the story, did he get jailed for this
L8T Jayde: no he was punished by also growing sick due to the dampness of the catacombs
L8T Jayde: jailed by illness himself and concluding fifty years later
englitguy: reread that J.
englitguy: you're being too literal
katzenjamrzz has left the room.
FRECKLS4ME: no, it never says he gets punished by jail.
EricLBecker1982: "For the half of a century no mortal has disturbed them"...in reference to the
bones that he put back up after sealing Fortunato in.
EricLBecker1982: Nobody knows what happened to Fortunato except Montressor.
englitguy: yes Eric
englitguy: yes freckles
englitguy: but is he okay with it
L8T Jayde: he savors every moment
englitguy: explain J.
FRECKLS4ME: i think because he has second thoughts while he's doing it, that shows he's not
okay with it, but he must seek the revenge, like it says on his arms, "no one can provoke me and
get away with it."
L8T Jayde: because when fortunato begins to scream, montresor responds by echoing
L8T Jayde: and yet he stops and sits back for a moment
englitguy: J., just a few messages ago you pointed out how he seemed to lose control. Also, his
comments about the catacombs is after a pause
L8T Jayde: i know just caught that one sorry
englitguy: so reevaluate
englitguy: remember what religion these people are
englitguy: as indicated in earlier comments
englitguy: does he get away with it
englitguy: does he feel good
englitguy: we already also establish that is likely talking to priest... and it is 50 years after the fact
englitguy: why would he explain this to a priest
EricLBecker1982: Confession.
englitguy: exactly
EricLBecker1982: He may think he's near death and wants to confess it and be cleansed of the
sin before he dies.
englitguy: so is the OK with this... did he did away with it
phildo6966: he wants to get in upstairs
englitguy: be specific fill
EricLBecker1982: In a way yes because he wasn't punished, but on a deeper level, no.....as his
religious beliefs go, if he doesn't confess it, he's going to hell.
phildo6966: heaven
phildo6966: not hell
englitguy: yes both
englitguy: what is the symbolism of the drinks
L8T Jayde: montresor is devoured by the lust of hate which destroys his soul as he destroys
fortunato
FRECKLS4ME: he is repenting seeking atonement for his sins.
EricLBecker1982: Phil: If he DOESN'T confess it he'll go to hell.
phildo6966: but then again, he did kill him. is that really forgivable?
englitguy: if you're a Catholic any commit a mortal San Diego hell anyway
englitguy: if you commit a mortal sin you go to hell anyway
EricLBecker1982: A San Diego hell?
phildo6966: thats what i meant, I agree it did look weird in print
EricLBecker1982: :Ah, all right.
EricLBecker1982: Just checking.
englitguy: what are the drinks
FRECKLS4ME: I'm glad you cleared that up.
englitguy: I tried
phildo6966: wines
englitguy: be specific look at the names
phildo6966: de grave
phildo6966: the grave
L8T Jayde: the temptations used to lead Fortunato to his death
englitguy: what is the other drinks
phildo6966: medoc
englitguy: what is that sound like
phildo6966: medic
englitguy: what is he drinking for
L8T Jayde: mi doctor
phildo6966: to a long life
phildo6966: to his health
L8T Jayde: to keep him warm
L8T Jayde: so he can press on despite his horrid cough
englitguy: the last answer is correct J.
englitguy: it is to protect them from the damps
englitguy: what is the irony
englitguy: what will the alcohol do
L8T Jayde: keep him subdued so Montresor will succeed
englitguy: yes
englitguy: what type of irony
L8T Jayde: situational
L8T Jayde: ?
englitguy: yes
englitguy: find verbal irony
englitguy: explained why it is ironic
L8T Jayde: toasting to his long life
L8T Jayde: because he will die
englitguy: why is that verbally ironic
L8T Jayde: and Montresor knows this
englitguy: correct
L8T Jayde: because he is stating something opposite of what he means
englitguy: correct
englitguy: more verbal ironies freckles Phil Eric
L8T Jayde: jumping with excitement here "im getting it"
englitguy: yes you are J.
FRECKLS4ME: you go j
englitguy: find a dramatic irony J.
englitguy: while the rest of them give me a verbal
EricLBecker1982: "Let us be gone".....foreshadowed not that F and M would walk out of there
together, but that F would in fact soon be gone.
englitguy: who said it
EricLBecker1982: Fortunato.
EricLBecker1982: Then Montresor.
englitguy: did he know that he was dying
englitguy: which one is verbal
englitguy: Fortunato or Montresor
FRECKLS4ME: "we will go back; you will be ill, and I cannot be responsible." (Montresor to
Fortunato.) He IS going to be responsible for what happens to Fortunato
phildo6966: was monty really a mason? an actual member
englitguy: very good freckles
englitguy: no fill
englitguy: capital M.
englitguy: no
englitguy: is he a Mason
englitguy: ?
EricLBecker1982: I think he did know it.....I want to say Montresor because he knew that it
wasn't true, but I might be mistaking that with dramatic.
englitguy: or a mason?
englitguy: Eric, when someone says something that is verbally ironic they have to know it is
ironic at the time
L8T Jayde: after chaining up his enemy he implores him to return
englitguy: yes J....
englitguy: although that may be taken as sarcasm
englitguy: which is slightly different
EricLBecker1982: Well, he does know it's ironic at the time, so it's the verbal irony.
FRECKLS4ME: Mason
englitguy: sarcasm is designed to do mean the other person whereas verbal irony is merely
designed to show wit
englitguy: freckles no
englitguy: he does not recognize the grotesque sign that Fortunato flashes him... that is why
Fortunato tells them he is not of the brotherhood
englitguy: how is he a mason with a small m
phildo6966: brick layer
englitguy: yes
englitguy: to go back to that phrase lettuce be gone
englitguy: let us be gone
englitguy: when Fortunato says that, it is only verbal irony if he knows he will die soon
englitguy: if he thinks he's merely saying let's leave this place, and he does not know he will die
soon, in other words he does not know he will soon be gone, then it is dramatic
englitguy: when Montresor says yes let us be gone, it is verbal
englitguy: verbal irony exists when the speaker knows the irony exists
EricLBecker1982: I think he knows it, though.
englitguy: dramatic irony exists when the speaker is not know the irony exists...the joke is on the
speaker
englitguy: if that is the case Eric, then your answer as a verbal is correct
englitguy: more dramatic ironies
EricLBecker1982: I think it based on the fact that his next line is "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD,
MONTRESOR!"
englitguy: in that case Eric, it would seem that when he said let us be gone that he was really
asking Montresor to let him go
englitguy: which would not make his comment verbal
englitguy: it was Montresors response that made him realize that he was going nowhere
englitguy: more dramatic irony folks
phildo6966: '"you jest"' fortunado said. the joke is on him because he is calling monty the fool
when he is the one who ends up being fooled into a trap that ends his life
L8T Jayde: the suggestion that he will go to luchesi for his info on the Armontillado
englitguy: correct
phildo6966: hence, dramatic irony
englitguy: explained J.
englitguy: phil is correct
phildo6966: that's what i get for trying to use fancy words.
L8T Jayde: he uses luchesi as a bate to pull Fortunato in
englitguy: that would not the dramatic irony if Montresors talking
L8T Jayde: fortunato, who's jester's bells jingle grotesquely in the funereal atmosphere
englitguy: yes...
englitguy: is that verbal dramatic or situational
L8T Jayde: situational
englitguy: correct
englitguy: other situationals.... other dramatics
englitguy: how about the fact this occurs during the carnival season
englitguy: how about the coat of arms
englitguy: how about the motto
englitguy: how about Fortunato's response to the motto
EricLBecker1982: The motto is "Nemo me impune lacessit" and Fortunato's response is "Good!"
L8T Jayde: fortunato makes a secret gesture
EricLBecker1982: "No one can provoke me and get away with it."
englitguy: explain Eric
englitguy: which is which
englitguy: what is the secret gesture J.
EricLBecker1982: The coat...a large foot being bitten into by a snake, crushing the snake.
englitguy: yes... what is the symbolism
englitguy: and is it ironic
EricLBecker1982: The symbolism is that Fortunato is the snake with the teeth in the heel, and
Montresor is crushing him.
EricLBecker1982: And that Fortunato is the provoker.
EricLBecker1982: The irony is that Montresor is basically telling Fortunato his fate.
englitguy: Eric, snakes do not provoke... no poisonous animal is aggressive unless it is hunting
for food and no poisonous animal hunts humans
englitguy: the irony is correct
englitguy: which irony is it
englitguy: snakes are defensive animals
englitguy: who is the snake
phildo6966: monty
FRECKLS4ME: sorry, i have to go put my kids to bed before they kill each other.
englitguy: and how does that fit the story
phildo6966: fortune is provoking him
englitguy: good luck freckles
FRECKLS4ME: bye
phildo6966: adios
FRECKLS4ME has left the room.
englitguy: correct fill
EricLBecker1982: Is Montresor the snake being provoked and therefore biting then?
englitguy: Eric, i was a bit misleading
englitguy: yES Eric
EricLBecker1982: All right...I just had it backwards.
englitguy: actually, we can apply both characters to each image in the picture
englitguy: what color is the foot
phildo6966: gold
englitguy: between Montresor and Fortunato, who has been stepping on whom
englitguy: between Montresor and Fortunato, who is more likely gold
phildo6966: symbolizing wealth
EricLBecker1982: Fortunato has been stepping on Montressor.
phildo6966: fortune
englitguy: and which person lays in wait
phildo6966: monty
englitguy: so who is the foot and who is the snake according to that
englitguy: idea
L8T Jayde: no one injures him with impunity
phildo6966: that's one of the rules of his vengeance checklist
englitguy: exactly J.
englitguy: remember, snakes by when stepped on
phildo6966: to be patient, lie in wait
englitguy: bite when stepped on
englitguy: but I want to look at it from another perspective is well
englitguy: remember this is Montresors coat of arms
englitguy: and remember in Catholicism a snake means what
L8T Jayde: evil
englitguy: and therefore would Montresor make himself to be this symbol of evil
englitguy: in Catholicism, it is believed that one of the things that Christ did before he went to heaven was he went down and killed the snake by stepping on it
L8T Jayde: so he was the snake
englitguy: in that case, who is the snake and who is a foot
EricLBecker1982: Judas Iscariot?
EricLBecker1982: Judas the snake and Christ the foot?
englitguy: in other words, your answer is correct if you supported it's well
englitguy: not Judas
englitguy: the snake that tricked eve
englitguy: garden of Eden
EricLBecker1982: Satan.
englitguy: the original sin
EricLBecker1982: The Devil.
EricLBecker1982: The serpent.
englitguy: exactly
EricLBecker1982: Etc.
englitguy: exactly
EricLBecker1982: Lots of things we could call it.
englitguy: in other words, Fortunato is the foot and Montresor is the snake if the snake is reacting
to being stepped on repeatedly by someone in power
englitguy: the other way to look at it is that Fortunato is the snake who is untrustworthy and who
has caused evil and Montresor is the foot that is going to crush him and keep him from hurting
others
englitguy: both answers are correct because they are explained so that the symbols link up with
the characters
englitguy: remember, it's not specifically the answer you give me... it is whether or not you can
support from the text
englitguy: and time flies
englitguy: it is after 9:00
englitguy: we will talk about conflict very quickly here and we will talk about it in detail next week
englitguy: three types of conflict
englitguy: man vs. man is two people in conflict
L8T Jayde: nature vs man
englitguy: man vs. environment is man vs. nature, like a snow storm or high seas, and also man
vs. society at large
englitguy: and society's rules
englitguy: and then man vs. self is the most important... it is a person fighting over whether or not
to do something
englitguy: quickly
englitguy: most dangerous game
englitguy: man vs. man
EricLBecker1982: Rainsford v. Zaroff
englitguy: correct
englitguy: man vs. nature
phildo6966: rainsford v island and sea
EricLBecker1982: Rainsford v. going overboard and swimming the sea to the island...
englitguy: both correct
EricLBecker1982: ...then again on the island.
englitguy: man vs. self
phildo6966: rainsford keeping his wit
L8T Jayde: Zaroff
englitguy: okay, by he doesn't go far from keeping his wit
englitguy: does zaroff ever have second thoughts about what he does
EricLBecker1982: No.
englitguy: think minor character
EricLBecker1982: The big guy...oh, what's his name...the deaf, dumb, mute servant.
EricLBecker1982: Ivan.
englitguy: does Ivan ever have second thoughts
EricLBecker1982: No...hmmm...
englitguy: try again
EricLBecker1982: .....the other guy on the boat.
englitguy: there is only
englitguy: one person left in
EricLBecker1982: Talking about how their prey might have feelings.
englitguy: the story
englitguy: that is it
englitguy: Whitney
EricLBecker1982: Yes, Whitney.
EricLBecker1982: I just found that right as you said it.
englitguy: hunt or not hunt
phildo6966: man v self
englitguy: I like it yet it makes me feel bad
englitguy: we will do more next week with the next story
EricLBecker1982: All righty then!
englitguy: what is the next story
phildo6966: he is not sure of his own feeling on the subject
L8T Jayde: the drunkard
englitguy: by the way, the makeup test will be on the guest
englitguy: thanks J.
englitguy: look for symbolism irony and conflict for next week
L8T Jayde: was ready for that one tonight
englitguy: get your papers into me by Thursday
englitguy: well, J., then you will be extra ready next week
englitguy: heheh
L8T Jayde: yup
EricLBecker1982: All righty then! POOF!
phildo6966: adios
englitguy: have a good week folks
EricLBecker1982 has left the room.
englitguy: by Eric
L8T Jayde: goodnight
englitguy: hasta la vista, phil
englitguy: bye j
phildo6966 has left the room.
L8T Jayde has left the room.
englitguy: poof