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tichure
6:16 PM
101


- ronnese joined the Main Room. ( 6:45 PM ) -
- Britney B joined the Main Room. ( 6:49 PM ) -


Britney B
6:49 PM
hello!!!



ronnese
6:55 PM
hi!



Britney B
6:57 PM
I'm so ready to talk more about these characters. I think I have it down, but I have so much to learn still.



ronnese
6:58 PM
yeah, me too. i think i'm pretty ok with the paper except the bartender. i have a few questions about him
i'm glad we're still talking about these characters cause i haven't finished the next story. you?
6:58 PM



Britney B
7:00 PM
No I haven't I have been reading and working and that's pretty much it lol.




ronnese
7:00 PM
i know the feeling




tichure
7:00 PM
well
pick a character
7:00 PM
one each
7:00 PM
and
7:00 PM
we wil  plow through
7:00 PM




Britney B
7:00 PM
The Cop



ronnese
7:01 PM
can mary be both flat and dynamic



tichure
7:01 PM
yours brit.
no ronnese
7:01 PM




ronnese
7:01 PM
ugh!@!!




tichure
7:01 PM
dynamic means change which means
round
7:01 PM
but
7:02 PM
a character can be both
7:02 PM
round
7:02 PM
and flat
7:02 PM


Britney B
7:02 PM
that makes sense



tichure
7:02 PM
brit
whenervr yer readyt
7:02 PM



Britney B
7:02 PM
The cop is statiic



tichure
7:02 PM
give as a big paragraph



ronnese
7:02 PM
my argument is she is flat but changes the way she feels about jackson. no go?


tichure
7:03 PM
hold on ronnese. i am guessing you wnat mary. lets do one at a time.



brit
7:03 PM


ronnese
7:03 PM
k



tichure
7:03 PM
one big par
same
7:03 PM
ronnese
7:03 PM
fo rmary
7:03 PM




Britney B
7:05 PM
The Cop is static. He never changes. The whole time he is with Jackson the reader can tell that the cop wants to help Jackson no matter what the problem is. He does seem to have a small conflict within himself about giving Jackson the money, but he ends up giving it to him anyway. He's predictable. A very flat character.
He has the problem within himself because he is afraid Jackson will just spend it on alcohol, but alcohol really isn't the problem
7:06 PM




tichure
7:06 PM
Very good Britney
what are the two sides of the internal conflict and it's not about alcohol
7:06 PM
the two sides of the in kernel conflict are going to be what he wants to do and what he does not want to do
7:07 PM




Britney B
7:07 PM
wanting to spend money and wanting to save money
he wants to save it for the regalia, but he wants to spend it on other people to be included. He says he
7:08 PM'




tichure
7:08 PM
not for Jackson
you're talking about the cop
7:09 PM
would've the two sides of the conflictてカ the internal conflict
7:09 PM
concerning money
7:09 PM
what are the two sides of the internal conflict concerning money
7:09 PM
and Jackson Jackson
7:09 PM
for the police officer
7:09 PM
and then you tell me he wants to do this and he doesn't want to do this
7:09 PM
Britney B
7:09 PM
Oh sorry the cops confilct is that he wants to give Jackson the money and he doesn't want to give him the money
Truthfully though he doesn't have much and that's to be expected with his profession, but he still gives Jackson what he has
7:10 PM





tichure
7:10 PM
yes
what was important was the internal conflictてカ he wants to give Jackson the money becauseてカ
7:11 PM
he does not want to give Jackson the money becauseてカ
7:11 PM
give me both sides of that and you have your internal conflict explainedてカ 
7:11 PM



Britney B
7:12 PM
He wants to give him the money because he feels for Jackson. He has a soft spot for him, but he doesn't want to because he thinks Jackson will spend it on alcohol and get into trouble.
He wants to help him get back the regalia.
7:12 PM




tichure
7:13 PM
very good
so
7:13 PM
internal conflict equals round
7:13 PM




Britney B
7:13 PM
round character





tichure
7:13 PM
static unchanging equals flat
any complexity?
7:14 PM




Britney B
7:14 PM
so he's both flat and round




tichure
7:14 PM
Yes
complexities of hardest thing that people have identifying
7:14 PM
complexity is opposites within the character not just actions but who they are
7:14 PM
smart and stupid
7:14 PM
strong and weak
7:14 PM
moral and immoral
7:14 PM
if you're saying that your guy is consistently nice although it through, is not complex
7:14 PM



Britney B
7:14 PM
he never changes his character, but he is complex in his conflict within himself. He's strong and weak




tichure
7:14 PM
if you say these mean at one point and he's nice at another point you have complexity
complexity and internal conflict are not the same
7:14 PM
show me his strength and then show me his weakness
7:15 PM
when Jackson first meets the cop what is the cop doing and what does it tell you about his character
7:15 PM




Britney B
7:15 PM
His strength is when he at first drives Jackson to the safe house and he's weakness is when he gives in and lets him leave with his money
his"
7:16 PM





tichure
7:16 PM
Britney, it's his job to take Jackson to rehab.
If he was really strong he would've taken him there
7:16 PM
complexity would be that he shows strength in one instance all the way through
7:16 PM
and then he shows weakness in another instance
7:16 PM
but what you really telling me is he simply changed his mind
7:16 PM
that's not complexity
7:16 PM
let me show you complexity
7:16 PM
by having you answer my question
7:16 PM




Britney B
7:16 PM
ok





tichure
7:16 PM
Ronnese you can answer the question to
when we first meet the cop, what is he doing
7:17 PM




ronnese
7:17 PM
k




Britney B
7:17 PM
driving to pick up Jackson because he got a call that he was laying on the train tracks




tichure
7:17 PM
no




ronnese
7:17 PM
kicking jackson




tichure
7:17 PM
we did not see that
very good ron
7:17 PM
a good guy or bad guy
7:17 PM
nice guy or not nice guy
7:17 PM







ronnese
7:17 PM
im still going with nice





Britney B
7:18 PM
Bad guy
could have gently shook him
7:18 PM




ronnese
7:18 PM
because of the very next sentence




tichure
7:18 PM
ronnese, you think kicking people is an appropriate way to rouse them
ron, you're proving my point
7:18 PM
is he a nice guy
7:18 PM
or bad guy
7:18 PM
or does it depend on who he's talking to
7:18 PM




- Carlos joined the Main Room. ( 7:19 PM ) -




tichure
7:19 PM
G sorry Jacksonてカ if I knew it was you, I would not kicj you. If I thought you were a regular homeless guy however I would've continued kicking the crap out of you




ronnese
7:19 PM
my argument is nice becuase he knows jackson by name




tichure
7:19 PM
that just means he knows him
and he likes him
7:19 PM
which means that he's nice to Jackson
7:19 PM
which bringsme back to what complexity is
7:19 PM




ronnese
7:19 PM
hmm




Britney B
7:19 PM
yes it depends on who he's talking to




tichure
7:19 PM
complexity is a character demonstrating that they are not one thing
like real people
7:19 PM
you are not nice to everybody
7:19 PM
you are not mean to everybody
7:19 PM
you're not happy all the time
7:19 PM
you're not unhappy all the time
7:19 PM
complex people reflect the nature of real people
7:20 PM
flawed and inconsistent
7:20 PM
in this case, he originally was kicking Jackson because he simply thought he was another homeless guy which gives us an indication as to how he treats homeless people he does not know
7:20 PM
when he found out it was somebody he knew, he stopped and basically apologized
7:20 PM
which means that he treats people that he does know
7:20 PM
differently
7:20 PM
on one hand
7:20 PM
he's not very nice
7:20 PM
on the other hand
7:20 PM




Carlos
7:20 PM
can someone fill me in please




tichure
7:20 PM
he can be very nice
and let somebody go
7:20 PM
Carlos, we're discussing the police officer and complexity
7:20 PM




ronnese
7:20 PM
you're changing my whole paper here




tichure
7:21 PM
when you're looking for complexity, you're looking for elements of the character that are inconsistent in terms of their behavior and attitudes
well this is just one point ron
7:21 PM




ronnese
7:21 PM
just when i thought i was finished with it




tichure
7:21 PM
but that's what you're looking for in the character
hahhaha
7:21 PM
well just fix that part then
7:21 PM
to see the character is consistently and generally nice person is correct
7:21 PM
to say that the character is consistently and generally a nice person is correct
7:21 PM
if you ignore
7:21 PM
the fact that he was kicking Jackson
7:21 PM




ronnese
7:22 PM
but can you ignore that and still make a valid point





tichure
7:22 PM
he also mentions that he shot people in the ass but he seems to be





ronnese
7:22 PM
or analysis




tichure
7:22 PM
you consider "for the most part he is consistently nice to Jackson"




Britney B
7:22 PM
yes to Jackson




Carlos
7:23 PM
the police officer for most part of the story he is very nice to jackson
he even helps him with money to help him buy the regalia back from the shop
7:23 PM




Britney B
7:24 PM
So can you say he's complex because of the kicking, and mood change?




tichure
7:24 PM
ye scarlos
it's not a mood change Britney
7:24 PM
it reveals
7:24 PM
based on what he said
7:25 PM
that he treats people differently based on whether or not he knows them
7:25 PM
which means if Jackson had not been somebody he knew
7:25 PM
you think that we would think the cop was a nice guy
7:25 PM
???
7:25 PM




Britney B
7:25 PM
no




ronnese
7:25 PM
no
\



tichure
7:25 PM
therefore is the cop a jerk or is he a nice guy
or is he
7:25 PM
both depending on the situation
7:25 PM




Britney B
7:25 PM
both depending on the situation
and the person
7:25 PM






Carlos
7:26 PM
he also kind of tries to convice jackson to file a report from the regalia to report it as stolen
\




ronnese
7:26 PM
well he could be both cause he coulda just left him there no matter who he was




Carlos
7:26 PM
and he even told jackson that he could get it back from him legally



Britney B
7:27 PM
He's both round and flat because his attitude changes when he realizes that Jackson is Jackson. He's flat after that one instance




tichure
7:27 PM
that is true Carlos
that is true ron
7:27 PM
that is also true carlos
7:27 PM
Britney, it simply gets back to my question
7:27 PM
is this guy one note
7:27 PM
or does he show complexity I'd been both good and bad
7:27 PM
the question is that simple
7:27 PM
does he show complexity by being both good and bad




Britney B
7:27 PM
yes



tichure
7:28 PM
then you have your answer Britney
he's complex
7:28 PM
and therefore
7:28 PM
roundness
7:28 PM
so
7:28 PM
cop
7:28 PM
internal conflict yes
7:28 PM
complexity yes
7:28 PM
change no
7:28 PM
is he a stereotype of a police officer
7:28 PM




Britney B
7:28 PM
Yes




tichure
7:28 PM
and think honestly and carefully
identify what it is
7:28 PM




Carlos
7:29 PM
yes he is a complex character the way he is nice to jackson and also as well kickin him





tichure
7:29 PM
yes carlos




Britney B
7:30 PM
Man versus society because he's expected to be rough and tough to drunks and law breakers, but the people he knows makes him change that demeanor
he want
7:30 PM
s to change that demeanor with people he knows
7:30 PM





tichure
7:30 PM
so what you're saying is that society expects them to arrest
drunkards
7:30 PM





Carlos
7:30 PM
and also the way he tells jackson how sometimes he is scared of the job but at the same time he describes it as boring




tichure
7:30 PM
and he goes against society's rules for police officers





Britney B
7:31 PM
yes






tichure
7:31 PM
very good Carlosてカ is that complexity or is that stereotypical cop




Britney B
7:31 PM
it
sorry it
7:31 PM
s complexity
7:31 PM
my finger is enter happy
7:31 PM




tichure
7:33 PM
hahaha





Britney B
7:33 PM
He breaks societies rules for the typical cop. Therefore he's not stereotypical. Wow I didn't know I could answer my own question





tichure
7:33 PM
yesてカ he was supposed to take Jackson to rehab
that's his job
7:33 PM
and he is hired by society
7:33 PM
to do so
7:33 PM
what does he feel about Indians
7:33 PM
he asked Jackson a question
7:33 PM
that actually was more about the Native American population rather than Jackson himself
7:33 PM




Carlos
7:35 PM
wait if he breaks society rules doesn't that mean he is stereotypical due to the stereotypes that cops use their power for their advantage





tichure
7:37 PM
Carlos
there are different stereotypes of cop
7:37 PM
good cop
7:38 PM
bad cop
7:38 PM
donut cop
7:38 PM
supercop
7:38 PM
your requirement is to identify by DESCRIPTION, not by label, with the stereotype is and then show me how the character fits that
7:38 PM
do not say the stereotypical cop because I don't know what that means
7:38 PM
instead
7:38 PM
say is a stereotypical corrupt cop who does whatever he wants because nobody arrests cops and then you would show me where he breaks the law for his own means
7:38 PM
or you'd say he's the stereotypical cop who does more social work than arresting people as he is about helping people like homeless alcoholics rather than Siimpley throwing them in jail
7:39 PM



Carlos
7:39 PM
ok





tichure
7:39 PM
and then I would understand what you're saying




Carlos
7:39 PM
he breaks the rules by not taking jackson to rehab when he is supposed to do



tichure
7:40 PM
there you go
and the question is whether he's a particular stereotype by doing so
7:40 PM
a lot of people believe the cops basically decide right on-the-fly whether they're going to follow the rules or basically do what they want
7:41 PM
and if the guy let you go after he catches you doing ninety on the freeway
7:41 PM
you like it when he breaks the rules
7:41 PM
hahahaha
7:41 PM
Ronnese , the dragon wants to call you Ron
7:41 PM
so if I say ron, I'm talking to you
7:41 PM
in any case, Ron let's talk about Mary
7:42 PM
round or flat or both and why
7:42 PM



ronnese
7:42 PM
no worries, i'm ok with Ron. question.. in order to do a valid analyis do you have to explore all of this? or can we pic which ones we want to talk about




tichure
7:42 PM
Carlos, the character other than the cop or Mary and identify whether that character is round or flat or both and why and discuss internal conflict, change, stereotyping and complexity
the minimum requirements are the following
7:42 PM
you must discuss internal conflicts, yes or no.
7:42 PM
You must discuss change in the character, yes or no and you must identify and label itてカ static or dynamic
7:42 PM
you must identify whether the character has complexity yes or no
7:43 PM
and you must identify whether the character is a stereotype, and if so, identify by DESCRIPTION what that stereotype is
7:43 PM
those four things are minimum requirements
7:43 PM
you do not have to give me seven examples of anything
7:43 PM
I just need one example of something if you claim it exists
7:43 PM
in our discussions, I will show you as many as possible
7:43 PM
so you see how it works
7:43 PM




ronnese
7:43 PM
well here's what i have for mary. i want to say she is flat with change but it seem that i can't so i just called her round. Next we meet Mary, a young woman who worked the register at a Korean grocery store. This minor character is shown as round. Although, she is not conflicted internally, she does experience a man versus man conflict with Jackson Jackson. Initially, she and Jackson do not agree on the status of their relationship. Jackson sees Mary as his family. After collecting on a winning lottery ticket he tries to give her a portion of the winnings saying, ててWhen you win, youてre supposed to share with your familyてて (Alexie 18). Maryてs response is, ててIてm not your familyてて (Alexie 18). This exchange expresses their contradictory feelings towards each other; however, てShe smiled. She kept the moneyて (Alexie 18). Maryてs acceptance of the money brings resolution to this conflict because by keeping it she has also accepted Jacksonてs take on their relationship. Maryてs character is dynamic because she has changed her perspective about the way she sees Jackson; now they are family.




tichure
7:43 PM
but in your paper I need a minimum of one example of each thing
Ron your character can be both round and flat
7:47 PM
your man versus man is good
7:48 PM
good use of quoted text
7:48 PM
good formatting for quarted dialogue
7:48 PM
I would not say that she has accepted Jackson's take on their relationship in the sense that they are datingてカ
7:48 PM




ronnese
7:48 PM
no. not dating just the family pare
part
7:48 PM




tichure
7:48 PM
I would say she's accepted Jackson's take on what one does with found winnings
be careful about that Ron
7:48 PM
remember she's trying to keep him at a distance.
7:49 PM
She works a liquor store
7:49 PM
he can find her any time
7:49 PM
she is working with him
7:49 PM
and he's basically claiming that their family and she says
7:49 PM
we are not family
7:49 PM
he says I consider you so
7:49 PM
so she took twenty bucks
7:49 PM
when he comes in later and says hey family I need free beer
7:49 PM
you think she'll do it
7:49 PM
???
7:49 PM




Carlos
7:49 PM
for mary is more of a flat and round at the same time due to the relationship she has with jackson not too close or not too far




ronnese
7:50 PM
i wouldn't be able to prove that either way. i don't think
if she'd give him a beer
7:50 PM
i just thought the exchange okayed what he was feeling
7:51 PM




tichure
7:51 PM
i can see your point..then I would say that she took the twenty bucks just to make him happy
and she hasn't really changed
7:51 PM
she just changed her mind about the twenty beaux
7:51 PM
but she still does not want him thinking about her
7:51 PM
beyond holding hands
7:51 PM
even in his dreams
7:51 PM
which he made very very clear
7:51 PM
is she stereotypical of a Korean daughter working in a family store?
7:52 PM




Britney B
7:52 PM
Yes because as a store clerk or server it's something you have to keep at a distance so yes she is stereotypical




ronnese
7:52 PM
i'm gonna say no. at least not any of the korean store that i've been in
they don't talk much. especially if you're not like them
7:53 PM
but how do i prove that if its not in the text
7:53 PM



tichure
7:54 PM
very good brit




Britney B
7:54 PM
I've been a store clerk before and you want to make them happy, but you don't want them in too close.




tichure
7:54 PM
Ron, I was tasked this question
I was going to ask this question
7:54 PM
is there a stereotype of particular cultural groups moving into a neighborhood buying a business and then only hiring their own family to work in it
7:54 PM



Britney B
7:54 PM
yes



tichure
7:54 PM
explain Brittany



ronnese
7:55 PM
yes



Carlos
7:55 PM
she is not because for a lot of people that work in stores they are not very social in this case she is very social with jackson but at the same time she keeps her distance from him


- Ericagarcia joined the Main Room. ( 7:56 PM ) -



tichure
7:55 PM
and Erikaてカ we are discussing paper one




Britney B
7:55 PM
Most stores I've been in to are run by family members because they trust one another. It's stereotypical of the families to not let an outsider in/




Ericagarcia
7:55 PM
great




tichure
7:55 PM
1 By the Way, Carlos, did you come up with that character that you want to analyze for the rest of us
Erika, we have covered Mary and we have covered the police officerてカ
7:55 PM
pick a character and tell me whether they are round or flat or why
7:56 PM




Ericagarcia
7:56 PM
ok great honey boy



tichure
7:56 PM
go-ahead Erika
lay it on us
7:56 PM




Ericagarcia
7:57 PM
ok


tichure
7:57 PM
Carlos, pick something
and give us some information
7:57 PM



Carlos
7:57 PM
i will choose the pawnbroker




tichure
7:57 PM
go for it
round or flat or both and why
7:57 PM



Ericagarcia
7:58 PM
Honey Boy is a flat character. He has not internal confict. He does have a man vs man conflict because he is attracted to Jackson but Jackson does not feel the same way towards him. He is not complex and does not have any fundemental change



tichure
7:58 PM
very good
stereotype?
7:59 PM




Ericagarcia
7:59 PM
YES



tichure
7:59 PM
expalin
hahahahah
7:59 PM




Ericagarcia
7:59 PM
very much so he sings and dances and is sassy




tichure
7:59 PM
again, I need a description of the stereotype, not just a label
and therefore he is stereotypical of
7:59 PM




Ericagarcia
7:59 PM
a gay man




Britney B
8:00 PM
not of the same spirit as Jackson so he puts it




tichure
8:00 PM
ok a flamboyant gay man
8:00 PM
good answer
8:00 PM



Ericagarcia
8:00 PM
yeah I would agree that sounds better




tichure
8:00 PM
Carlos, are you ready
8:01 PM
Britney and Ron and Erika, we still have the pawnbroker, Junior, Rose of Sharon
8:01 PM
grabbed one
8:01 PM
let's get this done
8:01 PM
and get out of here
8:01 PM



Ericagarcia
8:01 PM
I can try for the pawn broker




Britney B
8:01 PM
Junior



tichure
8:01 PM
excellent.
Post when ready as a complete paragraph
8:02 PM




Carlos
8:03 PM
he is a round character because at first when jackson tells him about the regalia he changes the way he gives jackson the regalia and he has internal conflict because he wants to do the right thing which is give jackson the regalia but at the same time he doesn't want to lose profit for the money he paid for it




tichure
8:03 PM
your internal conflict is correct Carlos
however,
8:03 PM
does he give the regalia to Jackson right away
8:03 PM
more importantly
8:03 PM
changes fundamental character change
8:03 PM
Britney and Erika don't post until I'm done talking about pawnbroker by the way
8:04 PM
it'll make it easier to follow
8:04 PM
does the pawnbroker admit right away that the regalia probably belongs to Jackson
8:04 PM
does he admit right away that the right thing to do would be for Jackson to have it
8:04 PM
anybody can answer
8:04 PM




Carlos
8:04 PM
he does not give the regailia back right away he gives jackson 24 hours to come up with the money




tichure
8:05 PM
yes Carlos and what about the other things I asked
does he admit right away that the regalia belongs to Jackson
8:05 PM
does he admit right away that the right thing to do would be for Jackson to have it
8:05 PM
does he in fact give Jackson a very small discount
8:05 PM
does he also give Jackson money to get started
8:05 PM




Ericagarcia
8:06 PM
he does admit that it belongs to Jackson




tichure
8:06 PM
yes
at the end of the story does he get to Jackson because Jackson pays for it or because it belongs to Jackson
8:06 PM
does he give it to Jackson because Jackson pays for work because it belongs to Jackson in the first place
8:06 PM




Ericagarcia
8:07 PM
He give it back to him because it is the right thing to do and it belongs to Jackson




Carlos
8:07 PM
and also he does admit that the regaila is jackson but still does not want to lose money




tichure
8:07 PM
so does the pawnbroker change in terms of his philosophy
Carlos, I need you to follow me on this
8:07 PM
because it has to do with the claim that the character changesてカ changes the way that he views the world
8:07 PM
changes his perspective about how he'd does things
8:07 PM
if he admits from the very beginning that giving the regalia to Jackson is the right thing to do
8:07 PM
and then he lowers the price
8:07 PM
and then gives the guy some money to start
8:08 PM
and then at the end he gives in the regalia
8:08 PM
is this a change for this character
8:08 PM
or is he acting the same way consistently all the way through
8:08 PM



Ericagarcia
8:08 PM
Yes ....because at first he was more concerned with the monitary value but in the end he wanted to do right by the owner of the regalia




Carlos
8:09 PM
yes he does change his perspective



tichure
8:09 PM
Erica he was more concerned with that or was equally concerned with
Carlos, if he gives it to him because it rightfully belongs to Jackson
8:09 PM
yet at the very beginning he admitted that rightfully belongs to Jackson
8:09 PM
he hasn't changed his perspective at all
8:09 PM
he simply changed his mind about whether or not
8:09 PM
to follow through
8:09 PM
which means he resolved
8:09 PM
his internal conflict
8:10 PM




Ericagarcia
8:10 PM
equally, ok I got it




tichure
8:10 PM
if his original argument had been I don't care about what's rightてカ I just want my moneyてカ and then later he said



Carlos
8:10 PM
ok



tichure
8:10 PM
it really should be yours
that would be different
8:10 PM
but his original argument was
8:10 PM
the right thing to do
8:10 PM


- AmberW 1 joined the Main Room. ( 8:11 PM ) -



tichure
8:10 PM
the RIGHT THING to do
would be to give the regalia to you
8:10 PM
and at the end of the story
8:10 PM
that's what he does
8:10 PM
the guy is consistently empathetic and generous
8:10 PM
all the way through
8:10 PM
does that make sense
8:11 PM




Ericagarcia
8:11 PM
yes the diference between change and internal conflict



Carlos
8:11 PM
yes that makes sense




tichure
8:11 PM
yes Erika
that is exactly it
8:11 PM




Ericagarcia
8:11 PM
internal conflict resolution





tichure
8:11 PM
is internal conflict is resolved
but it doesn't change how he thinks
8:11 PM
in fact
8:11 PM
it enforces how he thinks
8:11 PM
is the character stereotypical pawnbroker
8:11 PM




Carlos
8:12 PM
between the difference of change and internal conflict



tichure
8:12 PM
and consider whereupon broker does for a living and what his motives and his strategy should be
that is correct Carlos
8:12 PM
consider what a pawnbroker does for a living
8:12 PM
and tell me whether or not this is a stereotypical pawnbroker
8:12 PM
Amberてカ we are discussing what you pawn I will redeem. You will definitely want to see the archive when I posted tonight
8:12 PM
I would like you to try to analyze a character when you're ready.
8:12 PM




ronnese
8:12 PM
no not stererotypical





tichure
8:12 PM
Explain Ron
how is he not a stereotypical pawnbroker
8:12 PM
by the way folks I'm not looking for a specific answer as much as the answer best supported by the story
8:13 PM



tichure
8:13 PM
some answers are  more nebulous than others
8:13 PM



tichure
8:13 PM
in either case, Ron, please explain
to me how he is not stereotypical
8:13 PM
Carlos, back to the pawnbrokerてカ is he consistent all the way through or does he have complexity
8:13 PM




ronnese
8:13 PM
not stererotypical because pawnshops are in it for the money




tichure
8:13 PM
very good Ron
so
8:14 PM
internal conflict yes
8:14 PM
change no
8:14 PM
stereotypical no
8:14 PM
at least the way that Ron explained
8:14 PM
and complexityてカ yes or no
8:14 PM




Ericagarcia
8:14 PM
He is a stereotypical pawn broker. He is kind of easy going and seems willing to work out a deal with Jackson Jackson....but then again most sterotypical pawnbrokers wouldn't give money to a homeless guy or give them a thousand dollar reglaia for free



tichure
8:15 PM
yeah Ericaてカ I would suggest that Ron's argument is pretty good




Ericagarcia
8:15 PM
ok



tichure
8:15 PM
I would think the stereotypical part is that he looked at Jackson like he was a liar because pAWNshops are filled with liars



Britney B
8:15 PM
Junior is very flat. for most of the story he doesn't really speak, but once. Also he is passed out for most of it. He is only described by Jackson. All he has said is very vague things about his history. So it seems Junior is locked on letting people in. He could have internal conflict, but no one will know because there is no mention of why he is so vague about the type of indian he is.
crud I'm sorry
8:15 PM



tichure
8:15 PM
but the fact that he negotiated the deal in the first place is stereotypical pawnbroker
Britney, most of what you're telling me has little to do with roundness and flatness
8:15 PM




ronnese
8:15 PM
i'm gonna say complex because his actions go against what the nature of the business is




tichure
8:15 PM
internal conflict is importantてカ if we do not get any mention of it then there is none
so Ron is he a good businessman or a bad businessman or both
8:16 PM
if he is both you have complexity
8:16 PM
smart guy dumb guy
8:16 PM
good business man bad businessman?>

8:16 PM
????
8:16 PM




ronnese
8:16 PM
both
good because at first he was negotiating wich is would he should do
8:17 PM




Carlos
8:17 PM
he is consistent because from the begining he knows it is jackson's but doesn't know whether give it to him right away




ronnese
8:17 PM
but bad because he gave it away and didn't make any moneuy
money
8:17 PM



tichure
8:18 PM
ye sron
ye s carlos
8:19 PM
yes ron
8:19 PM
Carlos would say that the character is not complex because he's a good guy who feels bad for the homeless guy all the way through
8:19 PM
and he would give the example he just gave
8:19 PM
ron would say the character has complexity because he is both a good businessman and a bad businessman and she would give the examples that she gave
8:19 PM
your answers would build be correct because of your EXAMPLES
8:19 PM
would support your argument
8:20 PM
is everybody clear
8:20 PM
external conflicts for pawnbroker
8:20 PM




Ericagarcia
8:20 PM
yes


tichure
8:20 PM
go




Britney B
8:20 PM
sorry this won't let ne cut and paste I want to answer your wuestions but I want to be ready to put the example out when you ask. he never changes. he just is there. he drinks with jackson and is passed out most of the time he's there. he's static as far as his character goes, but through Jackson's eyes it's a little different



tichure
8:21 PM
well, Brittany, it really gets down to what we have




Britney B
8:21 PM
I'm speaking of Junior like I accidentally posted earlier



tichure
8:21 PM
it the character never says anything about internal conflict, there is no internal conflict
I know you did it's okay
8:21 PM
we can move to this
8:21 PM
if you tell me static as he doesn't change that is also correct
8:21 PM
is the stereotypical of a particular type of person, and if so, what
8:21 PM
external conflicts for the pawnbroker Erika
8:21 PM
????
8:21 PM




Ericagarcia
8:22 PM
I can ot think of any external conflicts for the pawn broker , mayeb man vs man



Britney B
8:22 PM
yes he is a stereotypical drunk homeless guy




tichure
8:22 PM
. Good
what is the man versus man Erica
8:22 PM
very good Britney
8:22 PM




Ericagarcia
8:22 PM
him against Jackson




tichure
8:22 PM
does the character have complexity Britney
what is it Erika
8:22 PM
Jackson wantsてカ pawnbroker wantsてカ
8:22 PM



Britney B
8:22 PM
no he doesn't have complexity



Ericagarcia
8:23 PM
Jackson wants the regailia back but he wants to be paid for the regalia
and ajckson does not have the money to pay him
8:23 PM




tichure
8:24 PM
that's it
Britney then Junior is
8:24 PM




Britney B
8:24 PM
flat and static




tichure
8:24 PM
no internal conflict, no fundamental character change, no complexity,
that's it
8:24 PM



Britney B
8:24 PM
yep




tichure
8:24 PM
and he is stereotypical
8:24 PM
does he have any external conflicts
8:24 PM
folks, does the pawnbroker have a man versus society conflict
8:24 PM



Britney B
8:25 PM
man versus man with the pawnbroker



tichure
8:25 PM
and remember society is a group of people with a collective idea
explained Brittany
8:25 PM



Ericagarcia
8:26 PM
no man vs society conflict




Britney B
8:26 PM
because he tells the pawnbroker that Jackson is the most honest indian he knows. He and the pawnbroker have a conflict




tichure
8:26 PM
Erikaてカ who is standing in front of the pawnbroker demanding the regalia
Britneyてカ that one's okay
8:26 PM
how about a better one
8:26 PM




Britney B
8:26 PM
Jackson and the pawnbroker and Junior get into it about whether it's Jacksons family's regalia and then they all search together
for the yellow bead
8:27 PM




Ericagarcia
8:27 PM
Junior and Rose and Jackson




tichure
8:27 PM
yes Britney
very good Erica
8:27 PM
Britney, what happens when Junior tries to explain what happened to the regalia
8:27 PM
Erikaてカ man versus society?
8:27 PM





ronnese
8:28 PM
jackson tell him it's his family let him explain the story




Ericagarcia
8:28 PM
so the collective group would be jacskon and his friends demanding back the regalia?



tichure
8:28 PM
Very good Ron
Man versus?
8:28 PM
Yes Erika
8:28 PM
three against one
8:28 PM
individual against a group
8:28 PM




Ericagarcia
8:28 PM
oh man I would hve never caught that




tichure
8:28 PM
pawnrbroker versus society
and here's the deal
8:28 PM
it doesn't work the other way
8:28 PM



ronnese
8:28 PM
me either



tichure
8:28 PM
The Other Way, Junior versus the pawnbroker is man versus man
rose of Sharon versus the pawnbroker is man versus man
8:29 PM
Jackson Jackson versus the pawnbroker is man versus man
8:29 PM
if you mention only one character on both sides
8:29 PM
it is man versus man
8:29 PM
the only person right now was having a man versus society conflict in this particular scene
8:29 PM
is the pawnbroker
8:29 PM
you can even point out that in some ways
8:29 PM
it's the homeless Indians against the pawnbroker
8:29 PM
rose of Sharon says she's going to the cops
8:29 PM



Britney B
8:30 PM
can it be society versus man?




tichure
8:30 PM
and the Pawnbroker says essentially that they believed him
hahaahah
8:30 PM
well Britney, you're splitting hairs on that one
8:30 PM
my point is this
8:30 PM


Britney B
8:30 PM
lol thought I'd try




tichure
8:30 PM
the only character of those four that is experiencing a man versus society conflict at that moment



ronnese
8:30 PM
i thought society had to be an instituion




tichure
8:30 PM
is the pawnbroker
Ron, a society is a group of people bound by a shared belief
8:30 PM



Britney B
8:30 PM
ok so Junior has no external conflict



tichure
8:30 PM
as a college student you are part of a society
Junior has external conflict Britney
8:30 PM
as was pointed out
8:30 PM
man versus man
8:31 PM
twice
8:31 PM
in fact there's another one later on in the story
8:31 PM
the last time we see Junior
8:31 PM
and also
8:31 PM
there is another one the last time we HEAR about Junior
8:31 PM




ronnese
8:31 PM
and society and nature




Ericagarcia
8:31 PM
man vs nature



tichure
8:31 PM
explained Ron
yes Erika explain
8:31 PM
man versus nature for Junior because
8:31 PM
what
8:31 PM





Ericagarcia
8:31 PM
when he dies of exposure outside of the hilton





ronnese
8:31 PM
society because of the alcoholism and nature becuase he died for exposure




tichure
8:32 PM
Erica and Ron you are correct because of the nature てカdies of exposure



Britney B
8:32 PM
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I see I'm sorry I missed that when I was typing :/



tichure
8:32 PM
Ron, you have to show me that society says or does something to Junior for being drunk
it's okay brit
8:32 PM
things move along
8:32 PM



ronnese
8:32 PM
sorry scratch society




tichure
8:32 PM
anybody want to work on Rose of Sharon
good choice Ron
8:32 PM
folks, it is going to be a common feeling to say that any of these people have a man versus society conflict for being drunk
8:33 PM
yet if there is no point in which society says something or there is no obvious societal breech, there's no conflict
8:33 PM\
what is Jackson said the very beginning
8:33 PM
about telling stories
8:33 PM
if it's a character says that society is against them, then you have a man versus society conflict
8:33 PM



Britney B
8:33 PM
indians are great story tellers



Ericagarcia
8:34 PM
Rose of Sharon is a flat character she is sterotypical homeless she lives on the streets and gets drunk




tichure
8:34 PM
of looking for a man versus society conflict Brett
keep going Erikaてカ change?
8:34 PM



Ericagarcia
8:34 PM
she has a man vs man with the pawnbroker



tichure
8:34 PM
Good
change?
8:34 PM
hahaha
8:34 PM
Brett, what I'm looking for is what Jackson says about telling stories
8:34 PM
and what he has to look out for
8:34 PM



Ericagarcia
8:34 PM
does she have change though because she goes to live with her sister




tichure
8:34 PM
I believe it's in the first or second paragraph




ronnese
8:35 PM
but they do have a society battle if at the beinging jackson says you walk right on by us, with maybe alook of anger or disgust..




tichure
8:35 PM
very good Erica
very good one on
8:35 PM




Britney B
8:35 PM
white folk



tichure
8:35 PM
very good Ron
very good Brit
8:35 PM
what is Jackson's problem with societyてカ white society
8:35 PM
two things
8:35 PM
Ron has one
8:35 PM
and brit has one
8:35 PM
they are not the same
8:35 PM
but they are with the same society
8:35 PM
Ron, what is the conflict involved with the anger
8:36 PM
Britney, what is gone but you are discussing
8:36 PM
society believes blah blah blah
8:37 PM
individual believes or acts blah blah blah that goes against society's belief
8:37 PM
that how you have to explain man versus society
8:37 PM



ronnese
8:37 PM
at the terrible fate of the noble savage?



Britney B
8:37 PM
telling stories or in other words telling lies.




tichure
8:37 PM
what is he saying with all this verbage Ron
Britt, hahahaha
8:37 PM
it's more director met
8:38 PM
is more direct than that
8:38 PM



ronnese
8:38 PM
white people against indians?



tichure
8:38 PM
In What Way, Ron


Britney B
8:38 PM
yes



tichure
8:38 PM
again, you have to give me belief system against belief or belief system against action



Britney B
8:38 PM
Indians stick together and white people took their land



tichure
8:38 PM
Britney, what does it mean when he mentions telling storiesてカ why is he concerned with white people
is that in the story Britney
8:38 PM



Britney B
8:39 PM
sorry. He says that Junior is before columbus and he is after.




tichure
8:39 PM
again



ronnese
8:39 PM
jackson says they have dreams and families but this doesn't intrest them



Britney B
8:39 PM
so I figured that was saying it




tichure
8:39 PM
you actually are on the right track or I would've to simply said no
no
8:39 PM
Ron, what does society think of Jackson as he sits there
8:39 PM
good thing or bad thing
8:39 PM
good person or bad person
8:39 PM
and why
8:39 PM



ronnese
8:39 PM
bad




tichure
8:40 PM
Britney, I want you to read the section where he says he has to be careful when he tells stories about white peopleてカ then he says something about white peopleてカ he gives an adjective
why Ron
8:40 PM
why bad
8:40 PM
what does society expecting to do
8:40 PM
what the society not want him to be doing
8:40 PM
as he lays there
8:40 PM
or sits there
8:40 PM




ronnese
8:40 PM
is agrument is that they are just like everyone else yet the white man doesn't see that they only see a savage
a real pocohantis story
8:41 PM
i hope i spelled it right.LOL
8:41 PM



tichure
8:42 PM
Pocahontas
he's talking about them being homeless Ron
8:42 PM



ronnese
8:42 PM
thanks




tichure
8:42 PM
is talking about the homeless
how does society feel about the homeless
8:42 PM
like or dislike
8:42 PM
folks, how the society feel about the homeless
8:43 PM
how does society feel about homeless people
8:43 PM
like or dislike
8:43 PM
especially according to Jackson
8:43 PM
who is one of them
8:43 PM
when he says
8:43 PM




Britney B
8:43 PM
dislike



tichure
8:43 PM
you walk right on by us
yes
8:43 PM
that's where we get the word disgust
8:43 PM




Britney B
8:43 PM
invisible




tichure
8:43 PM
yes we don't want to see them
society expects people to live where
8:43 PM
society expects people to do what
8:43 PM




Britney B
8:43 PM
in homes




tichure
8:43 PM
almost people live where
homeless people live where
8:43 PM
homeless people do what
8:43 PM



Britney B
8:44 PM
on the street




tichure
8:44 PM
it's that simple
yes
8:44 PM
it's that simple
8:44 PM




ronnese
8:44 PM
so you're saying he's not addressing his ethnicity just the homeless part?




tichure
8:44 PM
yes Ron
understand that he said we are homeless Indians and were everywhere
8:44 PM
the homeless part was important
8:44 PM
the Indian part is also important only because it's Seattle
8:44 PM
you can add both
8:44 PM
but it's especially easy to explain the man versus society part
8:44 PM
when you focus more on the homeless
8:44 PM




Britney B
8:45 PM
OHHHHH I get it.




tichure
8:45 PM
because it's easy to identify how society feels that homeless people break societies rules
in The Same Way, Britney, he's basically saying that he has to be careful about telling stories
8:45 PM
to white people
8:45 PM
because white people
8:45 PM
are greedy
8:45 PM
and therefore he has a conflict
8:45 PM
with white people
8:45 PM
as he thinks their greedy
8:45 PM




Britney B
8:45 PM
greedy




tichure
8:45 PM
in the same way, the police office or asks Jackson
what is the deal with you Indians always laughing when your lives are so troubled
8:45 PM
and essentially the police officer has a problem with Native American culture
8:45 PM
because he does not understand
8:45 PM
laughing
8:45 PM
in the face of trouble
8:45 PM
and Jackson even explains
8:46 PM
why Jews,
8:46 PM
and Native Americans
8:46 PM
are so good at humor
8:46 PM
and his answer is
8:46 PM
what
8:46 PM




ronnese
8:46 PM
inherent humor of genocide


tichure
8:46 PM
yes
which is in some ways a reflection of Jackson's feeling about 

8:46 PM
Ericagarcia
8:46 PM
there is something about the inherent humor of genocide



tichure
8:46 PM
about white people once again
yes
8:47 PM
Man versus society conflicts very often are simply a difference
8:47 PM
in perspective in the way things ought to be
8:47 PM
in the way people ought to act
8:47 PM
in the way that the rules ought to be
8:47 PM
what is the Native American belief when it concerns property
8:47 PM
understanding this simple element explains many of the conflicts that occur in the story
8:47 PM




ronnese
8:48 PM
idk. i don't remember the story speaking of this



tichure
8:48 PM
including the bartender
Ron, one of the elements that comes up when you're reading material like this is to find something about the culture that you're examining
8:48 PM




Ericagarcia
8:48 PM
sacred



tichure
8:48 PM
when an author writes a story, very often they incorporate elements that they're trying to explain but it simply is boring for a reader to be lectured to
exactly wrong Erika
8:48 PM
so instead what they do is they tell a story
8:48 PM
and the story they're telling is technically fiction
8:49 PM
but the meaning of the story is actually truth
8:49 PM
and it's interesting because in Native American culture they call storytelling lies
8:49 PM





Britney B
8:49 PM
yes




tichure
8:49 PM
in Anglo-American culture, a lie is a deliberate untruth and the story is fiction
and theyre different
8:49 PM
because one is designed to deceive and the other is designed for entertainment
8:49 PM
however in the South, they use the term てsitting around telling liesて to refer to people sitting around and just talking and telling stories to each other
8:49 PM
because technically telling a story about people that never existed doing things that never happened is a lie
8:50 PM
in Native American culture, they explain everything in the context of the story
8:50 PM
which means that if they were to be asked about something that specifically actually happened
8:50 PM
you might expect the story to be elaborated on
8:50 PM
expanded
8:50 PM
modified
8:50 PM
changed
8:50 PM
exaggerated
8:50 PM
in order to get to the essential truth of what happened
8:50 PM
which means you might hear
8:50 PM
that people tried to walk home across the water
8:50 PM
and drowned halfway home
8:50 PM
and somewhere in there is an actual truth of what happened to the Aleuts
8:50 PM
and American culture has a very specific belief about the ownership of property
8:51 PM
this has led to them being completely screwed by treaties with the United States
8:51 PM
it also is inherent in the conversations that Jackson has
8:51 PM
with his friends
8:51 PM
with Mary
8:51 PM
with the bartender
8:51 PM
why does the bartender kick Jackson out of the bar
8:51 PM




ronnese
8:52 PM
because it's closing time and he's out of money


Ericagarcia
8:52 PM
because he wont leave




tichure
8:52 PM
he's out of money
Jackson's response is what
8:52 PM
his response tells you his mentality
8:52 PM
it tells you how he's thinking
8:52 PM



Britney B
8:52 PM
where is honey boy


Ericagarcia
8:52 PM
where will i go?


ronnese
8:52 PM
that he was an ungreatful bastard



tichure
8:52 PM
it's what he tells the bartender
very good ron
8:52 PM
you ungrateful bastard I've been good to you
8:52 PM
according to the bartender
8:52 PM
has Jackson been exceptionally good to him or did he simply come in and buy a commodity
8:52 PM

has Jackson been exceptionally good to the bartender or did Jackson simply come in and buy a commodity fairly
8:53 PM



Ericagarcia
8:53 PM
he is just a drunk




tichure
8:53 PM
according to the bartender
Erica follow me on this
8:53 PM




ronnese
8:53 PM
just buy




tichure
8:53 PM
that is correct
because an Anglo culture
8:53 PM
people with money
8:53 PM
by things
8:53 PM
buy things
8:53 PM
from people who have things to sell
8:54 PM
we see a similar thing going on with Mary
8:54 PM
and we have a similar thing going on with the guy with the newspapers
8:54 PM
and we have a similar thing going on with the pawnbroker
8:54 PM
things cost money
8:54 PM
that is the way that it works
8:54 PM
yet Jackson says
8:54 PM
I've been good to you
8:54 PM
as if he's done something
8:54 PM
what has Jackson
8:54 PM
from his perspective
8:54 PM
done with his money
8:54 PM
in the context of the bartender
8:54 PM



Ericagarcia
8:54 PM
shared it




ronnese
8:54 PM
shared it with him





Britney B
8:54 PM
spent it to help him out.



tichure
8:54 PM
yes
yes the two first answers are better Britney
8:54 PM
how much did Jackson put in
8:55 PM



ronnese
8:55 PM
80



tichure
8:55 PM
how much of Jackson's money did he put in



Britney B
8:55 PM
80
tichure
8:55 PM
too specific, Ron
too specific Brittany
8:55 PM



ronnese
8:55 PM
all that he had



tichure
8:55 PM
how much of Jackson's money did he put in
good answer Ron
8:55 PM
what does he expect in return
8:55 PM



Britney B
8:55 PM
alcohol



tichure
8:55 PM
until



ronnese
8:55 PM
appreciation




tichure
8:55 PM
until what
yes Ron but Britney is on the right track on this
8:55 PM
you are correct Ron but it's also a specific because a\ bartender has alcohol
8:56 PM
to share
8:56 PM
hahahha
8:56 PM
he expects alcohol untilてカ
8:56 PM




ronnese
8:56 PM
it's gone?



Britney B
8:56 PM
he has no more money




tichure
8:56 PM
Ron is correct



Britney B
8:56 PM
doo



tichure
8:56 PM
Britney, that's what happened that the white way of looking at it


Ericagarcia
8:56 PM
he is done drinking



Britney B
8:56 PM
as homer simpson would say



tichure
8:56 PM
yes Erika
d'oh
8:56 PM
hahahaah
8:56 PM



ronnese
8:56 PM
ha



tichure
8:57 PM
Native Americans believe that property is to be shared
that the white idea of property is selfish and destructive
8:57 PM
remember his conversation with Mary
8:57 PM
she does not understand his logic
8:57 PM
is conversation with the bartender
8:57 PM
his conversation with the bartender
8:57 PM
the bartender does not understand his logic
8:57 PM



Britney B
8:57 PM
ahhh ya he says he's sharing because she's family




tichure
8:57 PM
yes
does honey boy reciprocate Jackson's generosity
8:57 PM



Britney B
8:58 PM
yes




tichure
8:58 PM
yes
does Jackson expect Junior and rose of Sharon and Mary and the rest of the bar patrons to literally pay him back
8:58 PM
for the drinks they drank
8:58 PM
or does he expect
8:58 PM




Britney B
8:58 PM
no



ronnese
8:58 PM
no



tichure
8:58 PM
something else
in a more general way
8:58 PM



Britney B
8:58 PM
he just wants attention




ronnese
8:58 PM
just for them to be there




tichure
8:58 PM
no Britney
not exactly Ron
8:58 PM
think long-term
8:58 PM
what would he expect if Junior came across fifty bucks

Ericagarcia
8:59 PM
friendship




Britney B
8:59 PM
Jackson would expect him to contribute



tichure
8:59 PM
yes


ronnese
8:59 PM
to share with him




Britney B
8:59 PM
and share



tichure
8:59 PM
Britney yes
yes Ron
8:59 PM
 that's exactly it
8so is Jackson stealing from junior when he finds the dollar fifty
in his shoes
8:59 PM



Britney B
8:59 PM
everybody share everybody happy



tichure
8:59 PM
hahahaha



ronnese
9:00 PM
no. he's just sharing


Britney B
9:00 PM
no




tichure
9:00 PM
the consistency that we talked about last week is that when Jackson gets money it's not that he buys alcohol
the consistency is that when he gets money
9:00 PM
he shares it
9:00 PM
with people who need it
9:00 PM
food for the Aleuts
9:00 PM
alcohol for pretty much everybody
9:00 PM



ronnese
9:00 PM
k. but how do we prove this knowlege of the indian culture if it not in the stoty




tichure
9:00 PM
twenty dollars for Mary



Britney B
9:00 PM
lol



tichure
9:00 PM
research Ron
hahah
9:00 PM
he he he he he you have an opportunity to apply direct research on your final paper
9:00 PM
but in this case,
9:00 PM
you would do the research
9:00 PM
ronnese
9:01 PM
but we can only use this text for this paper
tichure
9:01 PM
and you would just simply explain how it is
that is correct
9:01 PM
because this has to do with whether or not Jackson
9:01 PM
and his behavior
9:01 PM
is both stereotypical
9:01 PM
and predictable
9:01 PM
and honey boy
9:01 PM
in pulling out his credit card
9:01 PM
is also stereotypical
9:01 PM
and predictable
9:01 PM
that Irene
9:01 PM
and the exercise in the bathroom
9:01 PM
is indeed
9:01 PM
stereotypical
9:01 PM
and predictable
9:01 PM



Britney B
9:01 PM
its excapist



tichure
9:01 PM
especially if you find out the particular aspects of the tribes that he mentions



Britney B
9:01 PM
escapist




tichure
9:01 PM
well Britney, is the author talking about things that are real, it's less escapist
if the authors try to get you to understand Native American culture and how it's really different from yours, that's interpretive
9:02 PM
because he's trying to get you to think
9:02 PM
he's challenging you
9:02 PM
and your understanding of the way things work
9:02 PM
and if you had to look something up in order to understand it,
9:02 PM
you learn something
9:02 PM
and that's way less escapist
9:02 PM
that sounds like work
9:02 PM
and learning
9:02 PM
and who wants to do that?

9:02 PM



ronnese
9:02 PM
my brain can't handle any more. i'm throwing my paper in the trash and starting over. UGH!



tichure
9:02 PM
hahah
Ron this is all I'm saying
9:02 PM
if you look at Jackson's behavior
9:03 PM
of giving away the money that he gets
9:03 PM
and you simply say
9:03 PM
that he's stereotypically
9:03 PM
sharing property
9:03 PM
with family
9:03 PM
and in Native American culture, everybody is family
9:03 PM
all the cousins are in the bar
9:03 PM
Mary is family
9:03 PM
then your answer is correct
9:03 PM
because I know Native American culture
9:03 PM
on this aspect
9:03 PM



Britney B
9:03 PM
I'm confused I thought escapist was linear with obvious happy endings




tichure
9:03 PM
if you say that he is stupid for giving away his money you might be missing the authors point



ronnese
9:03 PM
me too brit




tichure
9:03 PM
Brittany,
Can a character B round AND flat
9:04 PM



ronnese
9:04 PM
yes


Britney B
9:04 PM
yes so it can be both



tichure
9:04 PM
yes
a work has escapist and interpretive elements
9:04 PM



Britney B
9:04 PM
escapist and literary



tichure
9:04 PM
if it was completely interpretive it's boring  ..if 
it's completely escapist, is predictable
9:04 PM
and therefore boring
9:04 PM
authors use both
9:04 PM



Britney B
9:04 PM
interpretive



tichure
9:04 PM
that is correct Britney
you identify what's interpretive
9:04 PM
you identify whats escapist
9:04 PM
the same way you identify whats round and what's flat for character
9:04 PM
good questions by the way
9:05 PM
it shows that you're actually following along
9:05 PM
and thinking about how you can put your paper together
9:05 PM
Ron, take your paper out of the trash
9:05 PM
and make changes to it if you need
9:05 PM



ronnese
9:05 PM
lol



tichure
9:05 PM
but a lot of what you have is probably correct
you just may need to qualify some statements
9:05 PM
maybe the character is not completely round
9:05 PM
or completely flat
9:05 PM
the story is not completely interpretive or completely escapist
9:05 PM



Ericagarcia
9:05 PM
I have a qeustion


tichure
9:05 PM
go-ahead
9:06 PM



Britney B
9:06 PM
I wrote it, but this changes a lot I'm pulling an all nighter and getting this paper together. So what time is it definitely due by because I learned alot!!!!!



tichure
9:06 PM
eleven fifty-nine fifty-nine Friday night
that's why I'm here Britney
9:06 PM




Ericagarcia
9:06 PM
If we dont label all the conflicts for each character will we lose credit



tichure
9:06 PM
Erica, you need to label the conflicts when you use them
if the point of the essay
9:06 PM
is the point of the essay
9:06 PM
the only character that you had to find all the conflicts is Jackson
9:06 PM
for every other character I need internal conflict yes or no
9:06 PM
man versus man identified and explained
9:07 PM
and another external conflict of some kind
9:07 PM


Ericagarcia
9:07 PM
ok , hmmm man vs man for the aleuts too




tichure
9:07 PM
but the only one that you need to find man versus nature AND man versus society AND man versus environment AND man versus man AND man versus self is Jackson



ronnese
9:07 PM
i just want to give you my paper and you can tell me what changes to make. my brian is exploding as we speak



tichure
9:07 PM
Erika
hahaha
9:07 PM
Ron you do get a chance to revise this
9:07 PM
but you wanted to be the best possible so that you can raise your grade
9:07 PM


ronnese
9:07 PM
YES!



tichure
9:07 PM
you can only raise the grade of full grade



Britney B
9:08 PM
ok :)thank you so much. I thought it was due tonight I'm a dork I read the date wrong, but does that mean the Shiloh response is due one week later now??? I've been reading that as well....



tichure
9:08 PM
so to get a C on the first draft the best you can do is B on the revision
Britney, I will explain the importance of Shiloh in an e-mail soon
9:08 PM
so you do need to read it
9:08 PM



ronnese
9:08 PM
oh. ok




tichure
9:08 PM
but finish your paper first
Erika
9:08 PM



ronnese
9:08 PM
ok




tichure
9:08 PM
man versus man for the Aleuts
what does Jackson ask them to do
9:08 PM



Britney B
9:08 PM
ok you got it




tichure
9:08 PM
that they refuse




Britney B
9:08 PM
sing




ronnese
9:08 PM
sing to him
tichure
9:08 PM
and they say



Britney B
9:09 PM
we only know hasnk williams songs
:)
9:09 PM




tichure
9:09 PM
hahahaah
funny I don't remember that aspect of the story Britney but it's been a long day
9:09 PM




Ericagarcia
9:09 PM
they can't share all there songs with him




tichure
9:09 PM
very good Erica
man versus man?
9:09 PM
For the Aleuts
9:09 PM
man versus man?
9:09 PM



Ericagarcia
9:09 PM
yes



tichure
9:09 PM
And for Jackson?


Ericagarcia
9:09 PM
yes




tichure
9:09 PM
Erika?
Try again
9:09 PM
for Jackson
9:09 PM




Ericagarcia
9:09 PM
ok ok no because he was ok with that



tichure
9:10 PM
Erika look at your own answer
Erika Garcia said
9:10 PM



ronnese
9:10 PM
where is the conflict with jackson if they do what hes asking them to do?



tichure
9:10 PM
they can't share THEIR songs with him
ron
9:10 PM
you're missing what happens toward the end
9:10 PM
Erika points out that they refuse him
9:10 PM
claiming they cannot share their secrets
9:10 PM



ronnese
9:10 PM
oh yea




tichure
9:10 PM
he wants all of them
and they say he cannot have all of them
9:10 PM
because some of them are only for their own culture
9:10 PM
for their own people
9:11 PM
therefore from the elite perspective
9:11 PM
from the Aleut perspective
9:11 PM
man versus man
9:11 PM
and from Jackson's perspective
9:11 PM
talking to three people
9:11 PM
who are talking about their entire culture
9:11 PM
and the rules of their culture
9:11 PM
talking to a guy
9:11 PM


ronnese
9:11 PM
man vs society



tichure
9:11 PM
who wants to know something



Britney B
9:11 PM
If I find the Hank Williams part I am going to email you because I remember that for some reason....




tichure
9:11 PM
very good Ron
hahah

Britney B
9:11 PM
and yes man vs society



tichure
9:11 PM
I am not surprised it's in there brit




Ericagarcia
9:11 PM
oooooooooo that's good , darn



tichure
9:11 PM
it's just not that that's what I was going
I was looking for this deep Native American conflict deal
9:12 PM



Britney B
9:12 PM
oh sorry lol


tichure
9:12 PM
not versions of てhey good-lookingて
its ok
9:12 PM




Britney B
9:12 PM
lol



tichure
9:12 PM
good Lord look at the time
hahaha
9:12 PM
folks, you have helped the rest of the hoi polloi immensely
9:12 PM
because they're going to read this and realize what they need on their paper
9:12 PM
so on their behalf thank you
9:12 PM
in the meantime I will kick you out of here so you can write your paper
9:12 PM
if you have any other questions, send me an e-mail
9:12 PM



Britney B
9:12 PM
:)Night



Ericagarcia
9:12 PM
I'm ready to qrite all this down


ronnese
9:13 PM
i thank you. i needed this nite!


tichure
9:13 PM
I will forward it to everyone so everybody has the same answer
Erika, it will be posted in about an hour so
9:13 PM



AmberW 1
9:13 PM
i mean really. i have to do this paper all over again. thanks guys



tichure
9:13 PM
so you don't have to write it all down
sorry Amber
9:13 PM
just trying to help
9:13 PM
you're welcome Ron
9:13 PM
good night Britney
9:13 PM



Britney B
9:13 PM
hahaha



tichure
9:13 PM
hahahah



Ericagarcia
9:13 PM
ok got it thanks.... no because i am a slow typer may be tomorrow lol



AmberW 1
9:13 PM
no its fine. i needed it. this helped me alot



tichure
9:13 PM
not a problem Erika
excellent Amber. It's why we do this
9:13 PM



Ericagarcia
9:13 PM
:)night



tichure
9:13 PM
have a good week everybody
take care Erica
9:14 PM



ronnese
9:14 PM
bye folks!


- Carlos left the Main Room. ( 9:14 PM ) -


AmberW 1
9:14 PM
bye


Britney B
9:14 PM


later!!
- AmberW 1 left the Main Room. ( 9:14 PM ) -


tichure
9:14 PM
by eron
buhbye
poof


9:14 PM
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